at 2 cu ft. you could build any 8" into the box. however i might suggest a 8" 3 way. if you can get the parts.
2 reasons.
1. 8" start to beam about 1k and few tweeters go that low
2. any XO bet a 8" and 1" will be pretty steep you could spend the money on a mid and use a shallow slope.
one config i like is the 8" at the botom with a 4-6" mid at the top and the tweeter between the 2.
if i were u i'd get a vifa M22, M10/11, and D27. they are easy to work with. there are better drivers but these are good for starters.
hope this helps.
2 reasons.
1. 8" start to beam about 1k and few tweeters go that low
2. any XO bet a 8" and 1" will be pretty steep you could spend the money on a mid and use a shallow slope.
one config i like is the 8" at the botom with a 4-6" mid at the top and the tweeter between the 2.
if i were u i'd get a vifa M22, M10/11, and D27. they are easy to work with. there are better drivers but these are good for starters.
hope this helps.
av expo
This is some news from AV-Expo at Bangalore...
During my visit i spoke to couple of people to find out possible sources for drivers.
I talked to ppl from sanen and they told that the drivers are made/assembled inhouse..there were components like kevlar cones, various baskets, ports , phase plugs etc on display...and on one of the baskets i saw klipsh engraved...on enquiring about the same he told that he had tie ups with around 20 component manufacturers around the world...who supply components to people like klipsch b&W etc etc...he might be able to source a driver (6" kevlar) for around 700bks a piece....all magnets used are ferrite...!also he wud provide the measured T/S for the drivers, i cudnt audition the setup he had as the background noise was too high for any kind of evaluation...
then i talked to ppl at DNM/Pace electronics...they use drivers from vifa, focal and audax...He just hinted that he might be able to help us in sourcing the drivers...enquired what the requirement wud be like...depending on that, he said, he'll let know further details...
i tried to get some info from sonodyne...they refused ..said they cannot make it public...!🙁
the show was good but...too crowded...the demo rooms were always packed with ppl...sound of music had 3 rooms...
demos and equipment here were very good ...shall write abt it some time..!
btw both of these ppl are based in mumbai...i'l just write to them...it wud be nice if some one cud approach them in person...
This is some news from AV-Expo at Bangalore...
During my visit i spoke to couple of people to find out possible sources for drivers.
I talked to ppl from sanen and they told that the drivers are made/assembled inhouse..there were components like kevlar cones, various baskets, ports , phase plugs etc on display...and on one of the baskets i saw klipsh engraved...on enquiring about the same he told that he had tie ups with around 20 component manufacturers around the world...who supply components to people like klipsch b&W etc etc...he might be able to source a driver (6" kevlar) for around 700bks a piece....all magnets used are ferrite...!also he wud provide the measured T/S for the drivers, i cudnt audition the setup he had as the background noise was too high for any kind of evaluation...
then i talked to ppl at DNM/Pace electronics...they use drivers from vifa, focal and audax...He just hinted that he might be able to help us in sourcing the drivers...enquired what the requirement wud be like...depending on that, he said, he'll let know further details...
i tried to get some info from sonodyne...they refused ..said they cannot make it public...!🙁
the show was good but...too crowded...the demo rooms were always packed with ppl...sound of music had 3 rooms...
demos and equipment here were very good ...shall write abt it some time..!
btw both of these ppl are based in mumbai...i'l just write to them...it wud be nice if some one cud approach them in person...
Hi Ajju,
I feel bad about missing the show. I was just too busy at work.
Can you let me have the contact info for the driver manufacturers?
Were there any amp kits and stuff like that on display?
Vivek
I feel bad about missing the show. I was just too busy at work.
Can you let me have the contact info for the driver manufacturers?
Were there any amp kits and stuff like that on display?
Vivek
sure...
but i dint find any such thing...rather my attention wasnt on them..to be frank...
yes DNM did have a sub amp module...dont have much details on that...other than that there werent any kits as such...or i dint notice them, wud be more appropriate...!
but i dint find any such thing...rather my attention wasnt on them..to be frank...
yes DNM did have a sub amp module...dont have much details on that...other than that there werent any kits as such...or i dint notice them, wud be more appropriate...!
sure...
but i dint find any such thing...rather my attention wasnt on them..to be frank...
yes DNM did have a sub amp module...dont have much details on that...other than that there werent any kits as such...or i dint notice them, wud be more appropriate...!
but i dint find any such thing...rather my attention wasnt on them..to be frank...
yes DNM did have a sub amp module...dont have much details on that...other than that there werent any kits as such...or i dint notice them, wud be more appropriate...!
Naveen,
Yes you are right about mating 8" and 1" but I did not know much about this back when I made the speakers.
To keep things simple I want a 2 way rather than 3 way. I plan to discard my current ones and go for a TMM with Dayton (1" silk and 6.5 woofer) drivers.
D27 is priced at 19.5 $ at PE and withing my reach. M22 are at 79.90 $ and above my budget. My short term goal is to have a set of floorstanders and a sub. If I am satisfied with the performance, I will make another set for HT setup along with a centre. So I want to stick to a high performance/price ratio and single manufacturer. Links to any such projects on the net will be useful. By the way, do you have any links to your setup for me to see ?
Thanks.
Ajju,
I had enquired with Sanen at AV-EXPO but they said they will not be able to supply drivers in small numbers.
Yes you are right about mating 8" and 1" but I did not know much about this back when I made the speakers.
To keep things simple I want a 2 way rather than 3 way. I plan to discard my current ones and go for a TMM with Dayton (1" silk and 6.5 woofer) drivers.
D27 is priced at 19.5 $ at PE and withing my reach. M22 are at 79.90 $ and above my budget. My short term goal is to have a set of floorstanders and a sub. If I am satisfied with the performance, I will make another set for HT setup along with a centre. So I want to stick to a high performance/price ratio and single manufacturer. Links to any such projects on the net will be useful. By the way, do you have any links to your setup for me to see ?
Thanks.
Ajju,
I had enquired with Sanen at AV-EXPO but they said they will not be able to supply drivers in small numbers.
Oh ...is it...
i guess the person who was there was the actual man behind sanen....
i talked to him for around 15 min...he asked me how many i want...thats after which he gave me the approx pricing...!
he asked me to contact him...!!and looked pretty enthu...!
anyway i'll write to him and find out...!
did u have a chance to listen to the system he had put up there...!
he was running it off a laptop and his own amps...
i guess the person who was there was the actual man behind sanen....
i talked to him for around 15 min...he asked me how many i want...thats after which he gave me the approx pricing...!
he asked me to contact him...!!and looked pretty enthu...!
anyway i'll write to him and find out...!
did u have a chance to listen to the system he had put up there...!
he was running it off a laptop and his own amps...
Indian drivers
Oops, I am bit backdated. I thought the automatic reminder will alert me when a post is made in this thread, it didn't all this while.
Corbato, good to know that you are back. The old man's name is Monga, he is the owner of Bolton. Nice man, I spend time with him discussing drivers, he does not believing in measuring T/S parameters nor in any specs and trusts only his ears. Bit scarry for me though. What is good about Mr. Monga is that he builds drivers to my specs, any coil length, magnet size etc.
I will not say outright that all Indian drivers are bad. Well the cone and spider is imported anyway. I measured non linear distortion and transient characteristics, and they weren't too bad. Bolton uses different cones these days and that has shot up the Q, and has made some of the driver un useable. I have mentioned this to Mr. Monga.
goldyrathore
You just cannot get an off the shelf passive cross over and expect your speaker to sound good. I still do not know how in the yesteryears people used to design XO with ear alone. The maths is too complex and without proper measuring setup and CAD it is almost impossible to design a good passive XO.
If we had easy access to imported drivers there would not have been any problems, the challenge is to get the best out of available Indian drivers. Very few of us are blessed with software engineer friends who would ferry imported drivers for us. Whatever drivers you have it is best to measure them yourself before putting them in a box.
Navin, I find the Bolton 8" Qts too high, the present ones have a Qts of over 0.9. I am yet to take the full measurement as promised, but would do soon.
Angshu
Oops, I am bit backdated. I thought the automatic reminder will alert me when a post is made in this thread, it didn't all this while.
Corbato, good to know that you are back. The old man's name is Monga, he is the owner of Bolton. Nice man, I spend time with him discussing drivers, he does not believing in measuring T/S parameters nor in any specs and trusts only his ears. Bit scarry for me though. What is good about Mr. Monga is that he builds drivers to my specs, any coil length, magnet size etc.
I will not say outright that all Indian drivers are bad. Well the cone and spider is imported anyway. I measured non linear distortion and transient characteristics, and they weren't too bad. Bolton uses different cones these days and that has shot up the Q, and has made some of the driver un useable. I have mentioned this to Mr. Monga.
goldyrathore
You just cannot get an off the shelf passive cross over and expect your speaker to sound good. I still do not know how in the yesteryears people used to design XO with ear alone. The maths is too complex and without proper measuring setup and CAD it is almost impossible to design a good passive XO.
If we had easy access to imported drivers there would not have been any problems, the challenge is to get the best out of available Indian drivers. Very few of us are blessed with software engineer friends who would ferry imported drivers for us. Whatever drivers you have it is best to measure them yourself before putting them in a box.
Navin, I find the Bolton 8" Qts too high, the present ones have a Qts of over 0.9. I am yet to take the full measurement as promised, but would do soon.
Angshu
Ajju.
Interesting reporting. Thanks for sharing the info.
Angshu
The alert email does get its share of gremlins at times.
Your friendship with Mr. Monga does throw up interesting possibilities. Perhaps you can pursue him to produce a limited batch of really good quality drivers for diyers here. Navin will go crazy on that.
In the '70s I recall some Bolton drivers used to come with a T/S spec sheet. Pretty much useless it was for us. We knew little of this T/S mambo. It used to be a case of mine is bigger than yours. I recall a friends construction. He had ten 12" Boltons in an enclosure the size of an Almirah. Must revisit that box. I'm sure its lurking around somewhere.
Interesting reporting. Thanks for sharing the info.
Angshu
The alert email does get its share of gremlins at times.
Your friendship with Mr. Monga does throw up interesting possibilities. Perhaps you can pursue him to produce a limited batch of really good quality drivers for diyers here. Navin will go crazy on that.
In the '70s I recall some Bolton drivers used to come with a T/S spec sheet. Pretty much useless it was for us. We knew little of this T/S mambo. It used to be a case of mine is bigger than yours. I recall a friends construction. He had ten 12" Boltons in an enclosure the size of an Almirah. Must revisit that box. I'm sure its lurking around somewhere.
Re: Indian drivers
hey i could call them if you like. i am back in mumbai (bombay).
that is also a nice combo. if you are doing this please ensure that the cabinet is segregated into 2 parts. got 2.5 way is solves 2 issues. you dont need a LR baffle step comp circuit and also you get to keep the sensitivity up 3db.
My short term goal is to have a set of floorstanders and a sub.
if you are getting a sub or 2 then 2x6" is fine.
1. if we get imported drivers we still need measuring equipment tthese drivers are also often off spec. not as much as indian drivers though.
2. i work with a mix of ear and expereince. not much measuring equipment. in the end there is only so much you can measure. once you add a box and a room a lot chances anyway. first start with drivers that are widely used and have good reports. then use some common sense (dont try to mate a 12" with a 1" etc..). then add a bit of time, luck, magic and voodoo. voila. maybe i come from THE OLD school.
been there done that! 🙂 I know where you are coing from. 🙂
Regards
Navin
ajju said:
hey i could call them if you like. i am back in mumbai (bombay).
goldyrathore said:
that is also a nice combo. if you are doing this please ensure that the cabinet is segregated into 2 parts. got 2.5 way is solves 2 issues. you dont need a LR baffle step comp circuit and also you get to keep the sensitivity up 3db.
My short term goal is to have a set of floorstanders and a sub.
if you are getting a sub or 2 then 2x6" is fine.
angshudas said:
1. if we get imported drivers we still need measuring equipment tthese drivers are also often off spec. not as much as indian drivers though.
2. i work with a mix of ear and expereince. not much measuring equipment. in the end there is only so much you can measure. once you add a box and a room a lot chances anyway. first start with drivers that are widely used and have good reports. then use some common sense (dont try to mate a 12" with a 1" etc..). then add a bit of time, luck, magic and voodoo. voila. maybe i come from THE OLD school.
corbato said:
been there done that! 🙂 I know where you are coing from. 🙂
Regards
Navin
Indian Drivers
Navin,
You forgot the vodka... after magic voodoo you need a sprinkle of the holy water to get things working to your satisfaction.
Hey I am from the old school too, may be older, when it measures good it starts sounding good too. I remember the time when I struggled blind with a standard off the shelf Bolton or Philips XO, finally abandoning everything for just a 5uf cap in series with the tweeter, more to protect the cone from popping out and blinding you than anything else.
Good driver and T/S parameters are the starting point. you need bit of black magic, science and good woodworking skills to make it sound good.
I feel DIYers and manufacturers are bit obsessed with the quality of drivers, what to me is more essential is to build a good cabinet. A standard driver will sound good in a well engineered cabinet.
Corbato
In our early days of DIY we always thought big is beautiful. I too have seen people build speakers which could house a little family including their dog. Now the amount you pay for a high end speaker, you could own a small flat and keep the wife, kids and dog with the neighbors Not because they will not fit in the house, but because you won't be able to afford them after you paid for your speakers.
The Philips 8" BOSE 901 clones were very popular too. Looking back they did not sound too bad specially when driven with valve amps. Wish I had kept those ECC83s and the EL84s till this day.
Cheers
Angshu
Navin,
You forgot the vodka... after magic voodoo you need a sprinkle of the holy water to get things working to your satisfaction.
Hey I am from the old school too, may be older, when it measures good it starts sounding good too. I remember the time when I struggled blind with a standard off the shelf Bolton or Philips XO, finally abandoning everything for just a 5uf cap in series with the tweeter, more to protect the cone from popping out and blinding you than anything else.
Good driver and T/S parameters are the starting point. you need bit of black magic, science and good woodworking skills to make it sound good.
I feel DIYers and manufacturers are bit obsessed with the quality of drivers, what to me is more essential is to build a good cabinet. A standard driver will sound good in a well engineered cabinet.
Corbato
In our early days of DIY we always thought big is beautiful. I too have seen people build speakers which could house a little family including their dog. Now the amount you pay for a high end speaker, you could own a small flat and keep the wife, kids and dog with the neighbors Not because they will not fit in the house, but because you won't be able to afford them after you paid for your speakers.
The Philips 8" BOSE 901 clones were very popular too. Looking back they did not sound too bad specially when driven with valve amps. Wish I had kept those ECC83s and the EL84s till this day.
Cheers
Angshu
If Mr Monga comes up with a good batch, I would like to invest in a couple of woofers. If there are a good number of buyers he may be interested.
Re: Indian Drivers
which era were the 901 clones. I think the 901 used a smaller driver. Any clone would then have to as well. Philips did make a 7" full range called the 7060. It had a whizzer cone which when damped was not bad.
I aggree that good cabinetry is an absolute must. However what I was trying to say is....
dont trust T/S numbers form Vifa. Audax et al precisely. There are variations there too. Hence my preference for sealed and tranny boxes. sealed boxes are forgiving and trannies can be easly tuned.
I dont have T/S measuring tools. I depend of driver reputation to know what to do with it. Once you have an idea what you can do with teh driver the XO is a bit trial and error using as few components as possible/required.
angshudas said:
which era were the 901 clones. I think the 901 used a smaller driver. Any clone would then have to as well. Philips did make a 7" full range called the 7060. It had a whizzer cone which when damped was not bad.
I aggree that good cabinetry is an absolute must. However what I was trying to say is....
dont trust T/S numbers form Vifa. Audax et al precisely. There are variations there too. Hence my preference for sealed and tranny boxes. sealed boxes are forgiving and trannies can be easly tuned.
I dont have T/S measuring tools. I depend of driver reputation to know what to do with it. Once you have an idea what you can do with teh driver the XO is a bit trial and error using as few components as possible/required.
Re: Re: Indian drivers
hey i could call them if you like. i am back in mumbai (bombay).
Navin,
I had mailed Sanen enquiring about possibilities of sourcing drivers...
He has given me a contact no and said it wud be nice if some one could go in person. Will u do the honours please... 🙂 if ur in town...!!
the contact nos are..
9820187582 cell or 25677587/25919716...
Please call him up before u plan to pay him a visit...
the DNM/PACE people have not responded yet...!
ajju
hey i could call them if you like. i am back in mumbai (bombay).
Navin,
I had mailed Sanen enquiring about possibilities of sourcing drivers...
He has given me a contact no and said it wud be nice if some one could go in person. Will u do the honours please... 🙂 if ur in town...!!
the contact nos are..
9820187582 cell or 25677587/25919716...
Please call him up before u plan to pay him a visit...
the DNM/PACE people have not responded yet...!
ajju
will do. i will call today. bombay is quite big. i will drop in when i am in his neighbourhood.
they are located in mulund. that is the other part of town. that is over 2 hours from where i work and 3 hours from where i stay. they might as well in NY or Mars. remember bombay moves at 15-20kmph! I have left a message for Sat Arora to get in touch with me. maybe we can meet at a more convinient place.
ya ...i forgot...
dint quite realize those difficulties...🙂
been there(bombay) only once...that too when i was a kid...🙂
dint quite realize those difficulties...🙂
been there(bombay) only once...that too when i was a kid...🙂
i called his office he was not in i left a message. i called his mobile he disconnected me. i will try one more time. maybe he was in a meeting.
Hi guys,
Any news on the drivers? I am still looking for that elusive subwoofer driver for my project. I contacted, Torvin, Chennai for drivers and am waiting for their reply. I need the sub badly to go with my brand new Denon DD/ dts receiver.
Bangaloreans, anything happening at all?
Vivek
Any news on the drivers? I am still looking for that elusive subwoofer driver for my project. I contacted, Torvin, Chennai for drivers and am waiting for their reply. I need the sub badly to go with my brand new Denon DD/ dts receiver.
Bangaloreans, anything happening at all?
Vivek
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