Millen007.
Both TA2024 & Ta2020 boards have had all the electrolytics swapped out for known low ESR Caps.
Both boards have quality Metalised Polyprop 2.2uf input caps. Generally Mundorfs or equivalents.
Both have added extra 4700uF buffer caps on the input & Torroidal inductors 11uH ( 44 turns on T68-2 Micrometals cores )
TA2024 has a direct + link to the esisting spare hole on the buffer + pad. Alps 50K Blue pots.
Existing Inductors on the TA2024 boards are actually not too bad.
Inductors on the TA2020 as stock are 22uH & changing these makes a spectacular improvement.
Yes I have a Charlize II without input caps & would rate the modified TA2020 board of Arjens as equivalent.
Strangely enough I have tonite been doing some tests with 3 people, driving Wharfedale Evo Pacific's & the general opinion was that that the 2 TA2020 boards were the best.
Paul
Both TA2024 & Ta2020 boards have had all the electrolytics swapped out for known low ESR Caps.
Both boards have quality Metalised Polyprop 2.2uf input caps. Generally Mundorfs or equivalents.
Both have added extra 4700uF buffer caps on the input & Torroidal inductors 11uH ( 44 turns on T68-2 Micrometals cores )
TA2024 has a direct + link to the esisting spare hole on the buffer + pad. Alps 50K Blue pots.
Existing Inductors on the TA2024 boards are actually not too bad.
Inductors on the TA2020 as stock are 22uH & changing these makes a spectacular improvement.
Yes I have a Charlize II without input caps & would rate the modified TA2020 board of Arjens as equivalent.
Strangely enough I have tonite been doing some tests with 3 people, driving Wharfedale Evo Pacific's & the general opinion was that that the 2 TA2020 boards were the best.
Paul
nice
thanks for the review.
would you preferred modded arjen ta2020 or charlize2? maybe charlize2 has less trouble of modding?
comparing charlize2 and modded arjen ta202020, which one do you prefer? considering cost and modding time consumed
thx
thanks for the review.
would you preferred modded arjen ta2020 or charlize2? maybe charlize2 has less trouble of modding?
comparing charlize2 and modded arjen ta202020, which one do you prefer? considering cost and modding time consumed
thx
Foil inductors
What about home brew foil inductors??
Must be doable, and a fun project.
Where can I find material to wind copper foil inductors? Or is it feasible to buy a Mundorf foil air core and unwind?? I use those in my speakers and they do sound lovely!!
My problem is that I can't find a calculator to size these inductors. Can anyone help out??
If I have the calcs, I can mod my other TA 2024 amp and do a direct comparison.
Peter
What about home brew foil inductors??
Must be doable, and a fun project.
Where can I find material to wind copper foil inductors? Or is it feasible to buy a Mundorf foil air core and unwind?? I use those in my speakers and they do sound lovely!!
My problem is that I can't find a calculator to size these inductors. Can anyone help out??
If I have the calcs, I can mod my other TA 2024 amp and do a direct comparison.
Peter
Peterhenk:
Look in the forum under class D "Litz wire and copper foil" there are a lot of links there.
Paul
Look in the forum under class D "Litz wire and copper foil" there are a lot of links there.
Paul
Millen007 wrote: do you have any chance to compare it with charlize from diyparadise?
So far we have tested the Ta2020's against modified Arjens, Sure & SI Ta-2024's. The TA-2020's won.
Note: I have not swapped out any of the SMD caps on Arjens TA-2024 board as have a lot of the Malaysian Guy's. Before I went that far I spied his TA2020 board with allready fitted Evox Rifa MMK caps. ( my eyesight is not too good & I avoid SMD mods wherever possible)
Will hopefully check the Arjen TA-2020 & Charlize 2 boards tonight or sometime over the weekend.
The Charlize is plug & play apart from addition of 4700uF low ESR cap on the input. & The Arjen board is modified as described previously.
The Charlize is a lot more expensive but I have had the enjoyment of working on the much cheaper board from Arjen. That's wat it's about, the DIY aspect..
Will advise results when I have done some meaningfull tests but I dont have the borrowed Wharfedales any more. Further tests will be done on some of my Acoustic Research speakers which are not too easy a load for these amps. Having said all that, what sounds superb to our ears here ,playing Jazz & clasical music, may sound just ordinary to you.
I have sent Arjen a Kit of parts to Mod a TA2020 board as he aparently has trouble sourcing good inductors in China & I look forward to his comments in due course.
Paul
So far we have tested the Ta2020's against modified Arjens, Sure & SI Ta-2024's. The TA-2020's won.
Note: I have not swapped out any of the SMD caps on Arjens TA-2024 board as have a lot of the Malaysian Guy's. Before I went that far I spied his TA2020 board with allready fitted Evox Rifa MMK caps. ( my eyesight is not too good & I avoid SMD mods wherever possible)
Will hopefully check the Arjen TA-2020 & Charlize 2 boards tonight or sometime over the weekend.
The Charlize is plug & play apart from addition of 4700uF low ESR cap on the input. & The Arjen board is modified as described previously.
The Charlize is a lot more expensive but I have had the enjoyment of working on the much cheaper board from Arjen. That's wat it's about, the DIY aspect..
Will advise results when I have done some meaningfull tests but I dont have the borrowed Wharfedales any more. Further tests will be done on some of my Acoustic Research speakers which are not too easy a load for these amps. Having said all that, what sounds superb to our ears here ,playing Jazz & clasical music, may sound just ordinary to you.
I have sent Arjen a Kit of parts to Mod a TA2020 board as he aparently has trouble sourcing good inductors in China & I look forward to his comments in due course.
Paul
TA2020 and Charlise
Hi ther Milen,
The TA2020 as i have it now gets a new brother! the TA2020 Deluxe, so maybe we can use that new board to compare with the Charlise, witch is also very good i must add. that would be a worthy battle.... 🙂
Hi ther Milen,
The TA2020 as i have it now gets a new brother! the TA2020 Deluxe, so maybe we can use that new board to compare with the Charlise, witch is also very good i must add. that would be a worthy battle.... 🙂
Photo
There is the Photo.
features:
-Better PCB layout
-Audio grade input caps
-Fully shielded output coils
-Delayed output with relay
-Over current protection circuit
-On board potentiometer ( this may be revised later )
-DC offset adjustment onboard
I yet have to test the board for THD distortion ect.
Greetings,
Arjen Helder
There is the Photo.
features:
-Better PCB layout
-Audio grade input caps
-Fully shielded output coils
-Delayed output with relay
-Over current protection circuit
-On board potentiometer ( this may be revised later )
-DC offset adjustment onboard
I yet have to test the board for THD distortion ect.
Greetings,
Arjen Helder
Attachments
Re: Photo
Mhm, looks yummy. 😉
What are the external dimensions of this board and, you knew it, what is the estimated price? 😀
I got one of your TA2024 boards via ebay recently and I must say it's singing very nice indeed. I had some problems exchanging the inductors so I'll stick with the stock ones, but apart from that I could even bring alive the sleep terminal. 🙂
Your boards are great for low budget DIYers like me, keep up the good work!
Mhm, looks yummy. 😉
What are the external dimensions of this board and, you knew it, what is the estimated price? 😀
I got one of your TA2024 boards via ebay recently and I must say it's singing very nice indeed. I had some problems exchanging the inductors so I'll stick with the stock ones, but apart from that I could even bring alive the sleep terminal. 🙂
Your boards are great for low budget DIYers like me, keep up the good work!
Sounds very promising Arjen. Keep us posted.
Got my caps and power supply in this week. I added two 2200UF caps to the Sure amp this morning. Hope I can find time for testing later today. I like the inductor ideas of Peter Henk and Woody. Sounds very promising too. Did you guys use Enameled copper wire or silver plated? What wire do I need to order? Thanks, Aad
Got my caps and power supply in this week. I added two 2200UF caps to the Sure amp this morning. Hope I can find time for testing later today. I like the inductor ideas of Peter Henk and Woody. Sounds very promising too. Did you guys use Enameled copper wire or silver plated? What wire do I need to order? Thanks, Aad
Amp is working now. Next step will be removing C13 and 21 and adding a pair of Rubicon 2,2UF caps on the input. I am still using a pair of old Jamo's now. It's about time I finish my Cyburg Sticks. They are still waiting for painting. But the filler I used is so hard to sand and is so cold outside right now.
Attachments
copper wire
Hi Aad,
I used normal enameled 0,8 mm transformator wire.
Thinking about that, it would be nice to see what happens if you use enameled silver wire. But how to enamel silver wire
Peter
Hi Aad,
I used normal enameled 0,8 mm transformator wire.
Thinking about that, it would be nice to see what happens if you use enameled silver wire. But how to enamel silver wire
Peter
Enameling wire? Is that like we did in school with coins on a burner? Great job for a rainy Sunday hahaha.
Aad said:
My air core inductors are made of transformator wire 0.50mm .
I also have a 99.999 silver wire ,but I kept it for some DIY interconnects. I don't think that silver will do so much diference over copper.
With tinner wire ,you have to do less turns ,and low frequency are better ,fuller and stronger.
thinner wire?
Hi woody,
Interesting!
Thinner wire gives better low frequencies. I didn't know. Why is that? skinning effect?
My reasoning for using 0,8 instead of 0,6 mm was the lower resistance.
Cheers
Peter
Hi woody,
Interesting!
Thinner wire gives better low frequencies. I didn't know. Why is that? skinning effect?
My reasoning for using 0,8 instead of 0,6 mm was the lower resistance.
Cheers
Peter
Main reason i go for thinner wire is to get small inductors, so they can be placed in my amp case.
As i say before,first i did air core inductors with 0,80mm wire,but that is over 60 turns ,too high for my amp case. Then I go for 0.50mm and I discover that low frequency become stronger and better, and inductors can be placed in case without a problem.
Again,link to best air core calc :
http://deepfriedneon.com/tesla_f_calchelix.html
As i say before,first i did air core inductors with 0,80mm wire,but that is over 60 turns ,too high for my amp case. Then I go for 0.50mm and I discover that low frequency become stronger and better, and inductors can be placed in case without a problem.
Again,link to best air core calc :
http://deepfriedneon.com/tesla_f_calchelix.html
Milen007 wrote:would love to hear your though on the arjen ta2020 and charlize. thx erwin
OK
did some more tests on the 2020 boards.
Both listeners prefered Arjens modified board describing it as more mellow & having a nicer "tone". I was present switching Amps and preferred the Charlize Board which has more detail. I do believe however that from when I got into the hot spot, that Arjens board has a better soundstage. In trying to get them to explain what they meant,by more mellow, I believe that they actually meant less detail ,which they seemed to prefer.. They also commented that they preferred the Bass, slightly less, on Arjens board.
Both these people have quality HK Stereo equipment & prefer mainly classical / semi clasical music. My feeling is that Charlize is more vibrant & makes you want to turn up the volume. I prefer Jazz. The Charlize bass to me is sometimes just a wee bit too much, especially when driving my AR TSW410's.
I may now make some input cap changes to one of my boards to brighten it up a bit & repeat this test then perhaps try some Air Core inductors. This is still 1 very nice board & only 25% of the price of the Charlize board.
I am sure there is still more potential in it.
Has anyone else out there modified one of Arjen's Ta-2020 boards ??
Paul
OK
did some more tests on the 2020 boards.
Both listeners prefered Arjens modified board describing it as more mellow & having a nicer "tone". I was present switching Amps and preferred the Charlize Board which has more detail. I do believe however that from when I got into the hot spot, that Arjens board has a better soundstage. In trying to get them to explain what they meant,by more mellow, I believe that they actually meant less detail ,which they seemed to prefer.. They also commented that they preferred the Bass, slightly less, on Arjens board.
Both these people have quality HK Stereo equipment & prefer mainly classical / semi clasical music. My feeling is that Charlize is more vibrant & makes you want to turn up the volume. I prefer Jazz. The Charlize bass to me is sometimes just a wee bit too much, especially when driving my AR TSW410's.
I may now make some input cap changes to one of my boards to brighten it up a bit & repeat this test then perhaps try some Air Core inductors. This is still 1 very nice board & only 25% of the price of the Charlize board.
I am sure there is still more potential in it.
Has anyone else out there modified one of Arjen's Ta-2020 boards ??
Paul
With pre-filter feedback, thinner wire results in high output resistance and a low damping factor. This reduces HF peaking, and with most speakers results in an apparent bass boost effect (actually everything but bass is attenuated).
Air coils for class D are a big mistake.
Air coils for class D are a big mistake.
In theory ,that what you said may be correct,but in the real world it's not that simple.
There is no Holly Grail in audio circuits, because each and every set-up is world for it self.
What I'm trying to say? Well just the fact that in my set-up air core inductors sounds the best on D-class amp.
My set-up :
Quad 21L
Primare I21 / Sure Board T-amp
Primare CD21 / Audioperformance USB DAC
QED silver anniversary xt
DIY 99,999 silver interconnects/neutrik
Quads are 88db on 6 Ohm and little T-amp can run it loud as hell,and the whole freq spectar is stabile. No att on highs & mids,balanced sound.
So, I really can't agree with your last sentence for air coils.
There is no Holly Grail in audio circuits, because each and every set-up is world for it self.
What I'm trying to say? Well just the fact that in my set-up air core inductors sounds the best on D-class amp.
My set-up :
Quad 21L
Primare I21 / Sure Board T-amp
Primare CD21 / Audioperformance USB DAC
QED silver anniversary xt
DIY 99,999 silver interconnects/neutrik
Quads are 88db on 6 Ohm and little T-amp can run it loud as hell,and the whole freq spectar is stabile. No att on highs & mids,balanced sound.
So, I really can't agree with your last sentence for air coils.
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