jp88> My remark about my intelligence was a direct response to millwood, nothing more. He thought it appropriate to critisize my ability to process information, which is something I'm pretty good at. Like you said, intelligence has nothing to do with how one obtains which information and what beliefs one has. In no way do I want to imply that I know it all!!!
As far as the quotes are concerned, I wrote down the first couple of hits I found via google and haven't checked them apart from glancing through them, trying to avoid the cheap Bush bashing sites. The only reliable source would be to have access to internal reports from secret services or similar. That obviously isn't going to happen, so we mortals 😉 will have to satisfy our need for information with newspapers and other media.
If you try a websearch for Bush's lies yourself, you will find it difficult to count the endless number of newspaper articles, opinion forums and more. This is not the result of a few ppl opposing Bush (like all ppl are opposed by some), this is genuine critisism about his integrity by many. It's hard to ignore the vast amount about it.
I don't think I'm demonizing Bush, but I do oppose to many of his actions towards the rest of the world.
Clinton probably deserves critisism as well, but I'm not too familiar with his part in all of this mess. And obviously Blair is in full support of Bush's actions and statements, so he deserves the same critisism. Schroeder however, like Putin and Shirac have publicly opposed the war and have insisted on a UN mandate before barging in to Iraq. All Hans Blix has done is report that he did not find proof of WMD. I'm not questioning this simply because he's dutch, but I'm thoroughly confused why you think I should critisize him as well.
😕
As far as the quotes are concerned, I wrote down the first couple of hits I found via google and haven't checked them apart from glancing through them, trying to avoid the cheap Bush bashing sites. The only reliable source would be to have access to internal reports from secret services or similar. That obviously isn't going to happen, so we mortals 😉 will have to satisfy our need for information with newspapers and other media.
If you try a websearch for Bush's lies yourself, you will find it difficult to count the endless number of newspaper articles, opinion forums and more. This is not the result of a few ppl opposing Bush (like all ppl are opposed by some), this is genuine critisism about his integrity by many. It's hard to ignore the vast amount about it.
I don't think I'm demonizing Bush, but I do oppose to many of his actions towards the rest of the world.
Clinton probably deserves critisism as well, but I'm not too familiar with his part in all of this mess. And obviously Blair is in full support of Bush's actions and statements, so he deserves the same critisism. Schroeder however, like Putin and Shirac have publicly opposed the war and have insisted on a UN mandate before barging in to Iraq. All Hans Blix has done is report that he did not find proof of WMD. I'm not questioning this simply because he's dutch, but I'm thoroughly confused why you think I should critisize him as well.
😕
till said:
Point 1. You are making progress, Till! Now you are only saying "some" in the US, not implying we are all as you state.
Point 2. I don't know of any American who feels the way you describe. You are grossly misprepresenting us and feeding the flame of hostilities.
Hans L said:
I can find far more number of trust-worthy websites reporting that Elvis visited their local pubs last night.
What does that prove about Elvis?
Jeff, do i have to put everything i write in irony tags?
In my opinion the text is easy to interpret as ironic and not to understand 1:1 .
I know very well there are very different thinking kind of people in the US, and not all of them are stupid. In fact i´m sure a huge amount is very intelligent and skilled enough to understand whats going on at least as good as me, maybe much better. Some obviosly are not...
Unfourtunately the better ones seem not to vote. Maybe because they are under resignation or under some kind of pressure.
for 2) : exaggeration is an appropriate stylistic device in writen language.
If you can´t recognize the satire at least in the last paragraph of the posting above, i must be very very bad in writing in your language, i feel sorry for me, or the reason is not my missing skills, than i´m sorry for you.
In case you convince me of the first case, i´m happy to write the text again for you in a language i know i´m much better in: german.
I agree on calming down, but in fact, i think you seem to take diskussion to personal. And i can´t agree on the statement SH would have nuclear weapons now. Isreal has nuclear weapons now, and Scharon is a criminal and killer. There is nothing that tells us SH would have been able to build nuclear weapons, except some unproofen statements made by a mentioned very often in this thread lier. In fact he was not able to build rockets reaching standart of the german V2 60 years ago....
If the pure unproofen assertion of some alcoholic uneducated antiintellectual lier is reason enough to start war, you have to start war against everything on this planet and against those in the next three worlds also.
In my opinion the text is easy to interpret as ironic and not to understand 1:1 .
I know very well there are very different thinking kind of people in the US, and not all of them are stupid. In fact i´m sure a huge amount is very intelligent and skilled enough to understand whats going on at least as good as me, maybe much better. Some obviosly are not...
Unfourtunately the better ones seem not to vote. Maybe because they are under resignation or under some kind of pressure.
for 2) : exaggeration is an appropriate stylistic device in writen language.
If you can´t recognize the satire at least in the last paragraph of the posting above, i must be very very bad in writing in your language, i feel sorry for me, or the reason is not my missing skills, than i´m sorry for you.
In case you convince me of the first case, i´m happy to write the text again for you in a language i know i´m much better in: german.
I agree on calming down, but in fact, i think you seem to take diskussion to personal. And i can´t agree on the statement SH would have nuclear weapons now. Isreal has nuclear weapons now, and Scharon is a criminal and killer. There is nothing that tells us SH would have been able to build nuclear weapons, except some unproofen statements made by a mentioned very often in this thread lier. In fact he was not able to build rockets reaching standart of the german V2 60 years ago....
If the pure unproofen assertion of some alcoholic uneducated antiintellectual lier is reason enough to start war, you have to start war against everything on this planet and against those in the next three worlds also.
till said:
by that you mean the person here who was sure of what conservative newspapers I read but just couldn't name them?
🙂
Jeff R said:
Just as we will never know that if we had not invaded, Saddam might have flapped his arms vigorously and flown to the moon. Anything is possible. We have rumors, no proof, even at this late post-invasion date.
Jeff R said:
I see. Now that the deed is done and the situation grows worse day by day, let's put aside such insignificant details like who got us into this mess.
millwood said:
You must be kidding me?
Washington Post is lying? CBD news is lying? The quotes taken from Bush were never actually spoken? CNN is lying too? They're all liberal freakin' democrat truth distorting communists, right? 😀
I'm sorry, not nice, I'm putting words in your mouth, you didn't say that at all. All you are doing is stating that 'they' don't see the world for what it really is and interprete all the quotes incorrectly and don't understand world politics at all or the necessity for a good game of war for the protection of natural resources, uhm woops, people in the interest of ones own country.
Let me rephrase most of your posts so far:
1) First you have to prove he lied
2) no matter what source you quote from, they can't be trustworthy. Numbers don't count.
3) if he lied, maybe he didn't mean to. ("Oh, we made a mistake. Sorry about that and about the bombs and the mess we made, we'll just be on our way ... bye now.")
4) Someone here doesn't know what conservative newpapers I read.
5) If you don't agree, you must be a left fanatic
6) Ok, maybe Bush made some mistakes. (So he could have started a war under false pretend?)
7) Someone here doesn't know what conservative newpapers I read.
8) International agreements don't mean a thing.
9) you sound dumb
10) Why should the US care about the res of the world?
Somehow I still think you have a broader view on the world than the above would imply. but I have yet to hear an argument that supports this assumption.
I don´t think he has. I think millwood is the avatar of the mother of the monkey formerly known as president.
I am not happy Israel has nukes but neither do I fear that there democratic government is going to plant one in downtown Baghdad or anyplace else. I am not happy North Korea has them. But, since he has them and since he has so little to use, I do believe it will ensure that Kim Jong remains in power and the North Koreans will continue to live is poverty.
No, SH would probably not have acquired them with the US ready to pounce, but if the US were to give up one him, I do he would try to get a few (possibly from North Korea) and then if he decided to go after Kuwait again, what could stop him? I don't see why this possibility seems so impossible for you to comprehend.
You have a good point in that we can't always be sure of our predictions, and we can't go around invading based upon a mere suspicion, but when you have a dictator who is known for lying and cheating and invading peaceful nations, they are indeed open to suspicion, and certainly SH was embarrassed in the first gulf war and he continued to fancy himself as one would could stand up to the west, and having nukes is the great equalizer.
As for Sharon, what about Arafat? He never hurt a fly, right?
I think this is a pretty biased and inflammatory remark that certainly destroys your self-image of the wise European lecturing a troubled teen America.
Jeff R said:
True.
Jeff R said:
He's open to suspicion, so let's invade. Even though we can't go around invading based on mere suspicion.
Jeff R said:
Which makes him suspicious, so let's invade. Even though we can't go around invading based on mere suspicion.
kelticwizard said:
SH was open to a lot more than "mere" suspicion. Geez. The man had used WMD and had invaded another country. And how many UN resolutions were there?????
Why did he do that?
Well actually he was allowed from the USA to use them. Since the Usa let him use them you can´t come now and say he shouldn´t have done that.
That´s actually crazy.
What just happened in Bagdad?
Ten thousand civilians killed in that atack
"Shock and Awe" is a WMD
http://www.africa2000.com/PNDX/shockandawe01.html
To make peace
First:
Destroy all frontiers
Second:
Stablish a World Council
Third:
Destroy all weapons!
Fourth:
Abandon desert and bad places to maintan life, transfer to other places that needs population (Canada and others)
Fifth:
International same level education
Sixth:
Freeze all mankind type of work, they will do the same, special analises will be made secondary, terciary and others comunity council
Seventh:
Separate Israel from Arabian and other conflicted people, same way you do with kids figthing in your house... send them all to another place..... big distance from each other.
No one religion alowed...if detected, prison or death!... this is a matter to figth. No problem believe in God (can be our ignorance the existence of)
Unfortunattely this will use power to obligate people to do council decides....members are decided by computer....most capable, more culture, and bigger emotional quotient, no agressivity people.
Correct, using education, the children that normally is bad!.... this way a bad adult will grown.
One day destroy the army that starts obligation things
No more money and values.... everyone asked the computer the things they need.... material to produce, will came from everypart from the world.... factory to do will be the one that can do....computer analisis will see if someone is asking more than reasonable needs.
All people controled by cameras and computers... big brother, yes!.... if you do a crime, death sleeping with the use of big amount of anesthesic material.
Sex free, jail to jellows,no problem with homossexual too..let them do what they want.
Control of natality..... stabilize population.... a man and a woman, 2 sons...... if this woman intended to have another son with another man will be not permited.
Objects, buildings, and values belongs to manking...no one in particular.
The only problem will be the council... they may have some better life than hole population.... but they will be not so many....all life chairmans....till brain working good.... them is retired.
house size or quality will depends of luck. decisions made by computers random analises.
I do not read all the forum.... maybe you put all that and more than that!.... sorry..... a long time i was thinking about that.
Monitors to emotions..... when nervous computer order to stay away from the one that disturb.... repeating, people will be moved somewhere.... family will survive, only if stress levels are keept reasonable for most of the time....if not, computer separates the ones that want to live this way...... no rigths to apartments and values to sons.... earth council will provide.
Clear law written everywhere, also punishment informed....you are free do discuss with the computer.... logical analises will be done.
Crazy?.....i know that.... also Einstein was..... a lot of good an special people where called this way.... fool, idiot...... but this is not allowed by the computer.... you may be banish to place was called Siberia to more educated... will return..... froozen.
Carlos
First:
Destroy all frontiers
Second:
Stablish a World Council
Third:
Destroy all weapons!
Fourth:
Abandon desert and bad places to maintan life, transfer to other places that needs population (Canada and others)
Fifth:
International same level education
Sixth:
Freeze all mankind type of work, they will do the same, special analises will be made secondary, terciary and others comunity council
Seventh:
Separate Israel from Arabian and other conflicted people, same way you do with kids figthing in your house... send them all to another place..... big distance from each other.
No one religion alowed...if detected, prison or death!... this is a matter to figth. No problem believe in God (can be our ignorance the existence of)
Unfortunattely this will use power to obligate people to do council decides....members are decided by computer....most capable, more culture, and bigger emotional quotient, no agressivity people.
Correct, using education, the children that normally is bad!.... this way a bad adult will grown.
One day destroy the army that starts obligation things
No more money and values.... everyone asked the computer the things they need.... material to produce, will came from everypart from the world.... factory to do will be the one that can do....computer analisis will see if someone is asking more than reasonable needs.
All people controled by cameras and computers... big brother, yes!.... if you do a crime, death sleeping with the use of big amount of anesthesic material.
Sex free, jail to jellows,no problem with homossexual too..let them do what they want.
Control of natality..... stabilize population.... a man and a woman, 2 sons...... if this woman intended to have another son with another man will be not permited.
Objects, buildings, and values belongs to manking...no one in particular.
The only problem will be the council... they may have some better life than hole population.... but they will be not so many....all life chairmans....till brain working good.... them is retired.
house size or quality will depends of luck. decisions made by computers random analises.
I do not read all the forum.... maybe you put all that and more than that!.... sorry..... a long time i was thinking about that.
Monitors to emotions..... when nervous computer order to stay away from the one that disturb.... repeating, people will be moved somewhere.... family will survive, only if stress levels are keept reasonable for most of the time....if not, computer separates the ones that want to live this way...... no rigths to apartments and values to sons.... earth council will provide.
Clear law written everywhere, also punishment informed....you are free do discuss with the computer.... logical analises will be done.
Crazy?.....i know that.... also Einstein was..... a lot of good an special people where called this way.... fool, idiot...... but this is not allowed by the computer.... you may be banish to place was called Siberia to more educated... will return..... froozen.
Carlos
a man and a woman, 2 sons......
if we want an homosexual society that will eventuelly deseapeer
that,s fine. i would prefer girl and boy!
Daniel
No, two children.... of course.
Monsieur, je ne parle pas votre langue très bien
Mister, i do not speak your language very well... this way, sometimes an error ocurr, also, write is really more difficult than understand.
But if you do a small effort, you will find the meaning.
Maybe you are only been funny, this cultural characteristics i do not know exactly, sometimes means funny, other times means ironic, sometimes makes no sense too me, sometimes i think is sadness.
But i prefer funny.... other sittuation, unfortunattelly is hard to me to understand, we are peacefull people, this way never do those other things.
And we have a perfect solution to all the people that wants to figth....put Mr Bush in a Box place together with Sadam... to boxing, to figth box, without gloves... close the door an return some hours latter.
And the other people that want adventure, we have some Sharks in front of my appartment... those can have real extreme emotions.
Someday i was in Japan having a dinner with important people...and all the woman smilling too much, i could not understand why?...the other day, a Japanese friend, a schedule controller, today International Broadcasting Sales Manager, said to me very ashamed, that the movement i donne with my finger passing into my face, point up, is an invitation to the girls to go to the bed, and not to sleep to be clear to you to understand my poor english. I was checking if i had to shave myself or not.... when a little bit nervous i do that.
So, something that is good to you can be bad to me, also the opposite sittuation.
Take a look how many brazilians entered the forum, and how many write a word?.... reason why, i suppose, they do not understand clearly what some people means with some sentences.
I could see strange cultural characteristics when looking into emigration office from Canada.
First:
If experienced people ask for immigration, will probably work in public services (not allowed in my country... only to people that born here)
Second:
They told is easy to enter and stay, we are always wellcome!
but all we need to to, and all the characteristics you must have, really turn quite impossible.... this way, in my understand, we are wellcome to do no go, and easy is....................
try to deduce the meaning of those points.
Third:
If you enter together with a bag full off money, government will make an effort to receive you and your gold (ironic here)
This way... really... i can not understand!
We know Canada empty!....need people..... easy entrance?
Monsieur, je ne parle pas votre langue très bien
Mister, i do not speak your language very well... this way, sometimes an error ocurr, also, write is really more difficult than understand.
But if you do a small effort, you will find the meaning.
Maybe you are only been funny, this cultural characteristics i do not know exactly, sometimes means funny, other times means ironic, sometimes makes no sense too me, sometimes i think is sadness.
But i prefer funny.... other sittuation, unfortunattelly is hard to me to understand, we are peacefull people, this way never do those other things.
And we have a perfect solution to all the people that wants to figth....put Mr Bush in a Box place together with Sadam... to boxing, to figth box, without gloves... close the door an return some hours latter.
And the other people that want adventure, we have some Sharks in front of my appartment... those can have real extreme emotions.
Someday i was in Japan having a dinner with important people...and all the woman smilling too much, i could not understand why?...the other day, a Japanese friend, a schedule controller, today International Broadcasting Sales Manager, said to me very ashamed, that the movement i donne with my finger passing into my face, point up, is an invitation to the girls to go to the bed, and not to sleep to be clear to you to understand my poor english. I was checking if i had to shave myself or not.... when a little bit nervous i do that.
So, something that is good to you can be bad to me, also the opposite sittuation.
Take a look how many brazilians entered the forum, and how many write a word?.... reason why, i suppose, they do not understand clearly what some people means with some sentences.
I could see strange cultural characteristics when looking into emigration office from Canada.
First:
If experienced people ask for immigration, will probably work in public services (not allowed in my country... only to people that born here)
Second:
They told is easy to enter and stay, we are always wellcome!
but all we need to to, and all the characteristics you must have, really turn quite impossible.... this way, in my understand, we are wellcome to do no go, and easy is....................
try to deduce the meaning of those points.
Third:
If you enter together with a bag full off money, government will make an effort to receive you and your gold (ironic here)
This way... really... i can not understand!
We know Canada empty!....need people..... easy entrance?
Mon cher destroyer english is not my language either. I speak french and where i live, Québec, we live in french. the rest of the country is mostly english ( but i heard that bc is turning japanese!!!).
Here they want immigrant with money. They make a lot of promises(?), like having a good job. And when immigrant live from unemployment or walfare they think canadian are racist.
What's important for this country (and i think for most country) is appearance. The reality is sometime quite different!
Daniel
Here they want immigrant with money. They make a lot of promises(?), like having a good job. And when immigrant live from unemployment or walfare they think canadian are racist.
What's important for this country (and i think for most country) is appearance. The reality is sometime quite different!
Daniel
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