kelticwizard said:
It is highly debatable if the UN spared us from a nuclear war. The biggest crises was the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the UN wasn't a player in that.
I won't go so far as to call the UN worthless. I don't think it has been able to do what had been hoped - it can only do things when member nations are themselves willing to enforce the resolutions and, as we know, the permanent members do sometimes veto resolutions for their own self-serving reasons or to “protect” other nations friendly to them.
For specific examples, how good is the UN dealing with North Korea? Kim Jong only wants to deal with the US (who is scared of the UN?). SH thumbed his nose at the UN and only because of the US did anything get done. Lots of nations, when it is to their own interests, snub the UN and will only comply when the UN can either manage a boycott or get the US to enforce sanctions or resolutions. (We know how well the UN-managed Oil for Food program in Iraq went.)
But, like you say, I do think it is better to have it than not have it. It has done some good, though oftentimes it merely allows for things to get worse. As Scotty once said in Star Trek: "the purpose of diplomats and bureaucrats is the same - to prolong any crisis." He also said, “The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phasor bank.” Indeed.
millwood said:
This was widely reported a couple of years ago. The survey (with complete results) is here:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/geosurvey/index.html
Only 13% of 18-24 year olds surveyed in the US could pick out Iraq on a map. Of course, what didn't make the news was that only 11% of Canadians, 10% of Brits, 19% of Japanese, and 6% of Mexicans could do the same. Western European countries (where apparenlty the educational system puts more emphasis on rote learning 😉 ) do better, but even in Germany (the best of them) only a third could find Iraq.
It's not clear what this has to do with anything. I remember when the story first came out, a comedian here reported it as: "Only one in seven young Americans know where Iraq is -- fortunately, they're all Marines."
There are quite a few people over here that couldn't point out iraq on a map. They are generaly known as liberals.......
nothing, its only the right kind of answer on absolutely stupid raceists mess like that:
i´m sure the bushists in the uS all belong to the majority that has significant lack of education.
you seem not really informed about educational system in germany.
Jeff R said:
The UN cannot do much when two superpowers are eyeball-to-eyeball in a confrontation.
However, since there are conflicts more or less constantly all over the globe, the UN can have a role is resolving these minor conflicts before they flare up into major ones.
My point was that for fifty years, we had two giants, armed to the teeth, glaring at each other. Has there ever been a time in history when such a situation did not result in a war? Usually, one or the other giants will find something to use an excuse to go ahead.
The major reason each did not attack was, as you and Millwood pointed out, the balance of power. Each knew the other could inflict deadly damage in a fight.
But in such a prolonged faceoff, it becomes necessary for a mechanism to exist to keep the eyeball-to-eyeball confrontations to a minimum. Things that start out as small conflicts can indeed grow into a bone of contention. With cool heads in charge, the world can survive three, four, maybe five eyeball-to-eyeball confrontations between superpowers. Forty or fifty confrontations would be far too much to expect survival.
That is role the UN played-not replacing, but supplementing the balance of power.
Finally, over the course of time, as nations first look to the UN to resolve conflicts, a spirit of internationalism grows and gains momentum. Things are settled with an eye toward practicality, history, and possibly even justice.
Do not forget, we are only eighty years removed from the time when a more powerful nation could march into a weaker one, take over, and seriously expect the other nations to recognize their right to do this, "by right of conquest". Things take time.
Jeff R said:
You'll notice that Scotty was not captain. Nor was he ever mentioned as becoming one. 😀 😀
till said:
or remote sensing what newpaper others read?
BTW, you still haven't told me what "conservative newspapers" you are so assured that I read.
What are they? I would like to know.
He did become one. This was made clear in the movies and an episode of TNG. (This response is again proof that I have no life)
My apologies. My frame of reference is the original series.
I could blather on endlessly how the movies, being a different genre, are in fact a different art form and subsequent Star Trek series are artistically to be considered on their own merits since they are reflective of the values of their own time and the subtext of the esthetic/political/cultural milieu extant at the zeitgiest blah, blah, blah, blah, etc....
But I'll spare everyone and won't. 😀
I could blather on endlessly how the movies, being a different genre, are in fact a different art form and subsequent Star Trek series are artistically to be considered on their own merits since they are reflective of the values of their own time and the subtext of the esthetic/political/cultural milieu extant at the zeitgiest blah, blah, blah, blah, etc....
But I'll spare everyone and won't. 😀
indeed it produces silly peaceloving communistic liberal anti bushistic philantrophs like me and not warmongering stupid racist first class human beeings Herrenrasse like some we could look at here from the US educational system.
till said:
more than anything, I am more interested in hearing you telling me what "conservative newspapers" I read, 🙂
original posted by til
"indeed it produces silly peaceloving communistic liberal anti bushistic philantrophs like me and not warmongering stupid racist first class human beeings Herrenrasse like some we could look at here from the US educational system."
This is a prime example of why you can't have a battle of the minds with liberals all they want to do is assasinate your charachter. Till, just because someone supports a the use of force to protect their countries interest doesn't mean they are any of these things you imply. I am a peace loving person, however I am a realist and understand that all things cannot be solved peaceably. I haven,t called you a yellow bellied, inconsierate, unrealistic, hatemongering, arogant, pompas, dumb, liberal, commie and I'd appreciate it if youd keep your argument civil and use logical argument instead of name calling.
Unfortunately you are partially correct about the U.S. educational system. Over the last couple of decades we have begn to teach sex ed instead of science and diversity instead of math and spanish instead of english.. Maybe we can start repairing it before it gets like yours...
Thank you and good day
"indeed it produces silly peaceloving communistic liberal anti bushistic philantrophs like me and not warmongering stupid racist first class human beeings Herrenrasse like some we could look at here from the US educational system."
This is a prime example of why you can't have a battle of the minds with liberals all they want to do is assasinate your charachter. Till, just because someone supports a the use of force to protect their countries interest doesn't mean they are any of these things you imply. I am a peace loving person, however I am a realist and understand that all things cannot be solved peaceably. I haven,t called you a yellow bellied, inconsierate, unrealistic, hatemongering, arogant, pompas, dumb, liberal, commie and I'd appreciate it if youd keep your argument civil and use logical argument instead of name calling.
Unfortunately you are partially correct about the U.S. educational system. Over the last couple of decades we have begn to teach sex ed instead of science and diversity instead of math and spanish instead of english.. Maybe we can start repairing it before it gets like yours...
Thank you and good day
jp88 said:
Indeed. While not specifically referencing anyone in particular, I have found that the most of the people here who engage in name calling, insult hurling, and avoiding proper debating rules are those who profess to love peace. I think we all want peace - it is just that some think peace can be had via pure diplomacy and others think that actions are sometimes needed. It is strange that some self-proclaimed lovers of peace are so hostile to those with opposing viewpoints.
I find it sad that there is so much interest here by kids in singing contests and becoming rock or pop music stars than in learning science and math. Kids want to learn to sing and dance rather than study! Well, I guess that is not surprising, but I fear we will have a new generation of carefree people who will not be productive.
Will there ever be an American Engineering Idol reality show? Who can design the best audio amplifier will win! Then there can be a world contest of Idol winners in the various countries! This week we will design a solid state amp. Next week it will be tube night, then the week after than Zen night. Get destroyed by Simon for your use of a solid state current source....
this illegal war the US does has nothing to do with defense.
The lies of your goverment does not convert into truth only because you repeat it. Sorry, you have to try harder to do this.
Yes, like your highly intelligent bushist goverment does at the moment.
Darwins Theorie must not be educated at US schools as it is against the word of the bible. But the realy important words of the bible like you should not kill, these are of no importance for you.
The pupose os clear: they want the people as stupid as possible so they will be elected in future also.
http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/0,1518,295513,00.html
That observation isn't very fair. In short this text is implying that most peacelovers are offensive to others, whereas pro war ppl in general are simply pragmatists who see the world like it really is. hmmmm....Jeff R said:
I personally still haven't made up my mind about this Iraq war. I find the motives for it highly questionable, BUT a madman has been removed, for what it's worth (we'll have to see about that in the coming years). I do know that I despise the US government for their complete lack of respect and commitment to the UN and other world organizations. Also, Bush has clearly lied multiple times and the general american public seems to think this is ok. To see a world leader lie to his ppl and the rest of the world about essential information is incredible, but to see him getting away with it and getting public support for it is truely unbelievable. And there aren't any signs of improvement.
I wish more ppl would wake up!
millwood said:
Hardly "essential" information. In fact, quite the opposite- the visual I got from this news kept me celibate with horror for a year after that.
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