ppfred said:
sorry. i disagree. if you had have given trucks as an example instead of planes and tanks you would have been partially correct. the tank most feared on the eastern front: the tu-34.
the plane: the il-2. and the russians made quite a few of them. most american aid to russia never made it there. it was sunk by u-boats. at least that is what is stated in every reputable book about WW2 ever written. perhaps you have access to some secret american documents the rest of the world has never seen.
anyways, stop comparing the current situation to WW2. this is not a black and white struggle of good and evil. this situation involves a bunch of little grey men in grey suits with grey moral values trying to convince you that their side is white and spotless and pure of intent. you can buy into either side if you want. but scrub as you might you can not remove the stains that tarnish BOTH sides.
in the above post i wrote tu-34. it is actually t-34. it`s early here and i am still asleep.
in the above post i wrote tu-34. it is actually t-34. it`s early here and i am still asleep.
Looks like I really riled a few of you! No apologies, I am not a subscriber to "political correctness". The great thing about most of the free world is that we may express our opinions freely. The comments about US homeland security propaganda? Hogwash.
The original thread is "Support Peace! What can we do...??"
OK, folks ,what do you think needs to be done? Let another Hitler loose on the world? I would prefer to avoid war, but the ball is
in Saddams court. So what else do you think needs to be done? Saddam should be deposed. The European sentiment is to leave it alone. I agree. The US should pullout and stay out. When Saddam eventually invades.....??? It's your business.
The original thread is "Support Peace! What can we do...??"
OK, folks ,what do you think needs to be done? Let another Hitler loose on the world? I would prefer to avoid war, but the ball is
in Saddams court. So what else do you think needs to be done? Saddam should be deposed. The European sentiment is to leave it alone. I agree. The US should pullout and stay out. When Saddam eventually invades.....??? It's your business.
slydwz said:
perhaps. but who will stop the U.S.A.? it is far easier to count the countries where US troops are NOT stationed than those where they are. perhaps that is your idea of a perfect world. but it isn`t mine.
Joe, I indicated the U.S. should pull out. Not just the Persian Gulf, everywhere. U.S. troops are stationed all over the world, at the request of the host countries, you should note. Quite frankly, I get disgusted with all of the U.S. bashing, then when the chips are down where does everyone come begging for help? It's easy to call me names as some here have done. That is fine, I really do not care (it makes it easier for them to try and support their position). This reminds me so much of the 60's. A lot of wasted energy with a great deal of protesting but no offering of another workable solution. Only the "your solution is wrong" mentality. I have seen no real counter solution. Stating my point makes me arrogant and ignorant? Fine.
..........please give us Rambo, burgers, and Coca Cola... Please be noble, galant, and brave in keeping law and order in the world.. rest assured that we will all stay blind to the strategies and the reasons why. Rambo rhetoric, gun culture, consumer capital of the world... oh how we look up to you!
If only I was American.
Gos bless America and all the aircraft that fly over it.
If only I was American.
Gos bless America and all the aircraft that fly over it.
Bah only victors write history books, and the US (although unjust victors) have been victors... so like yeah, don't just believe AMERICAN history books lol... it's like going back in medieval and how the church destroyed knowledge hid it away from ppl, etc.. etc.. to control ppl 😛
slydwz said:
gee. you guys just don`t get it.
all we are asking is that you (the US) go through the UN process.
we have given you a workable alternative: go through the UN process.
just because you won`t hear us doesn`t mean we aren`t offering solutions.
phase_accurate said:
The "problem" with North Korea is that a military solution is
hardly an option. Not only do they possibly have nuclear weapons
and long-distance missiles. It also so happens that the capital
of South Korea, Seoul, is located very close to the border and
North Korea has a lot of hidden artillery along the border that
could more or less wipe out Seoul before much can be done
about it.
As for Iraq, there are a few things that maybe needs to be
pointed out again:
1) Resolution 1441 is about disarming Iraq from WMDs and it
says nothing about changing the regime in Iraq.
2) UN cannot pass a resolution about changing the regime of
a country, although I think they have made an exception to
this in some case.
3) If US attacks Iraq without UN approval, it is a violation of
international law.
That offers no solution, sorry, but it seems a reminder of these
things is necessary so they are not just swept under the carpet
in the discussions. One solution that has been suggested is
for UN not to approve of the current regime on the grounds that
no fair elections have been held. However, the problem is that
the UN already has acknowledged it by negotiating with it. There
is also a new proposal (yes, it is from Sweden, I'd better say
that now than getting stabbed in the back with it 🙂 ), not
regarding Iraq in particular, but dictators in general, that
sanctions should be targeted against the regime, not the people.
Such sanction seem to have effect in Liberia, but it is probably
much to late to try it with Iraq, since the US war schedule would
not allow for it.
Stryder said:
As mods, we have no problem at all with this thread as long as it doesn't descend into insults...
But I would ask that you all refrain from posting large images as they add to the back up requirements of the site, and it also means if the site is ever offered in a CDrom version some things will have to be cut out for it to fit!😉
gigatron said:
I did laugh at the cartoon, as there is truth to it, but we have equally penetrating and funny cartoons depicting the opposite side. I will refrain from posting them and, besides, they accomplish little other than to inflame the more sensitive members amongst us. Making things worse should not be our goal here. There is plenty of ridicule to hurl at both sides.
joe dick said:
This is hardly true - that there are US troops in more countries than not.
I don't think anybody's notion of a perfect world is to have US troops stationed in every nation. One thing to keep in mind, we can't have troops where we don't have permission (except those few places we are fighting against). Look at Turkey right now. They are trying to extort billions from us. Other coutries do the same - demand billions from us for the privilge of providing jobs and relative safety from foreign envasion. Military bases, like it or not, is one form of foreign aid.
Stuss.
Most countrys are more or less friendly forced to let US forces in. Also a lot of countrys are more or less friendly forced to buy weapons. Saudia arabia is forced to let US in. Because they want vto trhow US forces out of the country US have to fear to be not offered that much saudian oil in future. At this moment they need iraqs oil. Bush descided to buy no mre oil from saudi arabia from 2007 on - got the idea?
The turkish people don´t want war against iraq - in some parts of the land iraq is the most important trading partner. A lot of the people have relatives there. They need tourism from europe for earn money. If US tforces and war in country ---> no tourism. Bush the older promised them money in the last war to compensate the loss. But he didn´t payed.
Most countrys are more or less friendly forced to let US forces in. Also a lot of countrys are more or less friendly forced to buy weapons. Saudia arabia is forced to let US in. Because they want vto trhow US forces out of the country US have to fear to be not offered that much saudian oil in future. At this moment they need iraqs oil. Bush descided to buy no mre oil from saudi arabia from 2007 on - got the idea?
The turkish people don´t want war against iraq - in some parts of the land iraq is the most important trading partner. A lot of the people have relatives there. They need tourism from europe for earn money. If US tforces and war in country ---> no tourism. Bush the older promised them money in the last war to compensate the loss. But he didn´t payed.
gigatron said:
Wrong again, though there can certainly be different interpretations of things that happened. I think US history books are amongst the more fair of all, as our liberal authors often like to take an anti-government position. If you think Russian history books written under the communists are more accurate, well, there is not much I can say. Remember how they liked to "retouch" photos to get rid of any historical records of people they didn't like? In the US, that would get a professor fired and disgraced.
And it was the Europeans who destroyed all those things in medieval times. Remember, it was the Americans who pretty much invented the idea of freedom of religion, and separation of church and state. And it was the American who invented the notion of a free press.
till said:
I think they like to buy weapons from us becasue we often subsidize the purchase and because the US aircraft and weapons/defenses are amongst the best available. Certainly, they are the only ones proven in combat!
Yeah, we can be a bully sometimes. I think we can rationalize it when we do, and the countries are usually well compensated. But, if told no, we go away. A lot of us were furious when the French would not allow our aircraft to travel over France on a bombing run years ago. While we could have done so anyway - and what could France have done, complain to the UN? - we didn't. So, while we my bully, if you stand up to us, we may grumble a bit, but we back down.
SH, on the other hand, has a history of invading. He gets upset when others get mad at him for doing so, and when others want to do to him what he did to others, he tries to rally world support for himself. And you complain about manipulation by the US.
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