was "invented" by french. (if not by antique greeks)
people who fight for
existed in the lands that became germany later back in 18th and 19th century. OK, they didn´t succed.
But all this has no coherence to why the war USA vs iraq should be legal. Only because USA mastered a few years ago to accept blacks should have the same rights as whites, and native amerikans are human beeing to and not animals who should be killed like rats there is no reason to go out and teach this to iraq people by sloughter them.
Jeff R said:
Quite right. I had a history teacher who had been to Soviet
and met with history teachers there. When bringing up the
Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty, they had no idea what he was
talking about.
It would be interesting to know to what extent
history has been "restored" in todays russian history books.
However, my previous suggestion that the US had very little
to do with the turn on the eastern front was largely based
on a couple of, most certainly british or american, documentaries
on TV. As I indicated earlier, there is a risk that the russians
may also have "liberated" western europe if the US had not
went in.
You had the fortune of being able to build things up from scratch
rather than patching up the existing, and you should have credit
for doing a good job on that. What you did most likely had a
strong influence on political reforms in Europe. Would there have
been a revolution in France if you had not fought for freedom a
few years earlier, for instance?
While I agree that you do have a generous freedom of religion
in the US, I still think it is required that the president believes
in the christian god, isn't it, and all presidents seem to like to
refer to this god a lot in their speeches. Somewhat contradictory
in my eyes. I guess those guys who wrote up the constitution
never imagined any other religions than different versions of
christianity. 🙂
Till, do you not consider it rather hypocritical to make reference to past human rigfhts issues in the U.S.? We all have past transgressions that we are not rather proud of. None of us here are obviously going to change any other persons opinion. We agree to disagree. Cheers.
slydwz, what i posted has nothing to do with the threads subject. As the brainwash homeland security ******** you posted has nothing to do with. I need to post some painfull truth espacially for you - for this may be a way to stop you from posting lies. Nothing against contocversity - but i don´t need a propaganda relais poster here. I doubt anybody else need.
Jeff R said:
Well, talk to the polish about that one, or to our aircraft industry.
The US won the polish contract on fighter jets over the swedish
offer, because of better subsidies. The swedish Gripen plane
was considered technically better. Now, this whole deal is
being renegotiated, because the US turned out not to keep
their promises on subsidies.
Nothing to be proud of, but there are some modern swedish
weapons also proven in combat, by the US!!, including a
bazooka-type weapon that is a standard weapon
for the US marines.
OK, Till. I was referring to the same painful truth for you, too. You spout contradicting proaganda, so who is right? (rhetorical)
I do hope there is no war, however I do not have the same confidence in the U.N. as you.
I do hope there is no war, however I do not have the same confidence in the U.N. as you.
slydwz,
OK, maybe we come a little closer together now. I dont belive in UN, i have not much confidence in them. But i have more confidence in UN than in USA at the moment. And there is good reason, as USA seems to be addicted to law breakiing at the moment. This goes not against US citizens, but i have the feeling these politcowboys at whitehouse are closer to some old style texs western criminals than to big hero safer of world freedom. I have the feeling the higher someone went in a political hirarchie the more suspiciously he is a criminal. I have, like most europens nowaday as much fault on historical crimes of my country as you of those of amerika. We should look forward and not throw old **** against each other - a good reason is we have enough new one today. And please , the last i want to propagate here is my country is of more moral integrity than yours. All this are reason to be against war. No reasons pro war. It is not my war.
OK, maybe we come a little closer together now. I dont belive in UN, i have not much confidence in them. But i have more confidence in UN than in USA at the moment. And there is good reason, as USA seems to be addicted to law breakiing at the moment. This goes not against US citizens, but i have the feeling these politcowboys at whitehouse are closer to some old style texs western criminals than to big hero safer of world freedom. I have the feeling the higher someone went in a political hirarchie the more suspiciously he is a criminal. I have, like most europens nowaday as much fault on historical crimes of my country as you of those of amerika. We should look forward and not throw old **** against each other - a good reason is we have enough new one today. And please , the last i want to propagate here is my country is of more moral integrity than yours. All this are reason to be against war. No reasons pro war. It is not my war.
Maybe that's the reason tho go to war that often: The weapons industry needs to test their gadgets under real life conditions (as it was done in Hiroshima) !!!
Regards
Charles
Well, if you're going to bring that up, don't forget Nagasaki. While this was going on your country was filling its banks with Nazi treasures.
This is hardly true - that there are US troops in more countries than not.
I don't think anybody's notion of a perfect world is to have US troops stationed in every nation. One thing to keep in mind, we can't have troops where we don't have permission (except those few places we are fighting against). Look at Turkey right now. They are trying to extort billions from us. Other coutries do the same - demand billions from us for the privilge of providing jobs and relative safety from foreign envasion. Military bases, like it or not, is one form of foreign aid. [/B][/QUOTE]
actually, jeff, it is true. you already have troops in turkey - just not as many combat ready ones as you would like. although i should agree with you that having troops and 'military advisers' in a country is not quite the same as having an airborne division 'dropping' in for dinner.
I don't think anybody's notion of a perfect world is to have US troops stationed in every nation. One thing to keep in mind, we can't have troops where we don't have permission (except those few places we are fighting against). Look at Turkey right now. They are trying to extort billions from us. Other coutries do the same - demand billions from us for the privilge of providing jobs and relative safety from foreign envasion. Military bases, like it or not, is one form of foreign aid. [/B][/QUOTE]
actually, jeff, it is true. you already have troops in turkey - just not as many combat ready ones as you would like. although i should agree with you that having troops and 'military advisers' in a country is not quite the same as having an airborne division 'dropping' in for dinner.
The justification Bush is using to attack Iraq is to reduce the threat of terrorism to the US.
"...the absence of a sense of real progress on the Israel-Palastinian issue is a far bigger worry in terms of recruiting people to terrorism than is the pursuit of Iraq over weapons of mass destruction"
Tony Blair, in reference to the Palastinian Reform Conference on Feb 10th.
"Expect no real progress on the Israeli-Palastinian issue until the United States decides to intervene with some sense of balance. As long as America places most of the blame on the Palastinians - and contiunues to back the Israeli government - the violence will continue"
The Economist, The World in 2003
I would like to ask every US citizen in this forum what YOU are doing about this? What actions are YOU taking PERSONALLY to reduce the causes of terrorism to yourselves ane the rest of us? How many of you have got off your laurels and written to your elected reps and demanded a change?
I WANT TO KNOW!
"...the absence of a sense of real progress on the Israel-Palastinian issue is a far bigger worry in terms of recruiting people to terrorism than is the pursuit of Iraq over weapons of mass destruction"
Tony Blair, in reference to the Palastinian Reform Conference on Feb 10th.
"Expect no real progress on the Israeli-Palastinian issue until the United States decides to intervene with some sense of balance. As long as America places most of the blame on the Palastinians - and contiunues to back the Israeli government - the violence will continue"
The Economist, The World in 2003
I would like to ask every US citizen in this forum what YOU are doing about this? What actions are YOU taking PERSONALLY to reduce the causes of terrorism to yourselves ane the rest of us? How many of you have got off your laurels and written to your elected reps and demanded a change?
I WANT TO KNOW!
joe dick said:
The total "lend-lease" aid exceeded $50 billion of which the Brits received $31 billion and the USSR $11 billion. And that was 1940's currency! That was one hell of a lot of trucks!
(Other countries, e.g., China, New Zealand,..., took advantage of this program.)
joe dick said:
🙄Shhh! Don't tell the merchant marine.
What claptrap!
Think!
The Germans invade, and within months the Soviets manage to not only move their factories, they rebuild these structures and then begin a massive manufacturing program to defeat the invaders. This while half their country, the industrial part, was occupied. I don't think so.
Hell, the Brits couldn't do it, and they were much more industrialized then the Soviets, not to mention that they didn't have to relocate their factories.
joe dick said:
What an arrogant statement.
I could be just as childish and ask:
"What is the source of your info - The Truckers Association of the World?", but I won't.
It looks like you bought into some old pro Soviet propoganda left over from the cold war era.
pf
traderbam said:
"... and the rest of us. ..."
Bravo! Well said!
Amazing how some people refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. They call it the "Oprahfication" of America.
"Poor me. It's not my fault. Who can I blame?"
pf
ppfred said:
It might be that the factories already were located in the Ural
and it was rather a question of cranking up the production than
building new factories. However, as I rememeber from the
british/american documentary I saw on TV recently, at the time
of the battle of Stalingrad, Soviet produced some 3 to 4 T34s
for each german Tiger produced. In fairness, it should be said
that the latter was a heavier thing. As I understand, they also
deliberately buffered up on arms until the winter. That said,
the american aid was most certainly important to slow down
the earlier german advance.
ppfred said:
by your own figures the USSR received a third of the aid as Britain while fighting in a theatre that dwarfed all the others combined. so, tell me again how the ussr won fighting in american tanks and planes.
joe dick said:
The USA supplied the USSR with 6,430 planes, 3,734 tanks, 104 ships and boats, 210,000 autos, 3,000 anti-aircraft guns, 245,000 field telephones, gasoline, aluminum, copper, zinc, steel and five million tons of food. This was enough to feed an army of 12 million every day of the war. Britain supplied 5,800 planes, 4,292 tanks, and 12 minesweepers. Canada supplied 1,188 tanks, 842 armoured cars, nearly one million shells, and 208,000 tons of wheat and flour. The USSR depended on American trucks for its mobility since 427,000 out of 665,000 motor vehicles (trucks and jeeps) at the end of the war were of western origin.
'Nuff said.
pf
- Status
- Not open for further replies.