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#2,921
Facts Vs. Silliness

promitheus said:
The growth of economy doesn´t really say anything about how the people really live in that country.

Third world countries have larger grow rates then others , that doesn´t mean the people there live good.
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Following is a chart of the per capita Gross Domestic Product for the nations of the world, data prepared by the World Bank.

http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicator/indic_111_1_1.html

#1 Luxembourg $42K
#2 Norway $36K
#3 USA $35K
#4 Japan $32K
#5 Denmark $30K

That rounds out the "over $30K" list.

Please click the link and note the other high GDP per capita nations, Promitheus. See any Third World countries high on that list?
 
#2,923
Just to put things in perspective, we've had some gasoline price shocks recently; the price here in California, the most expensive gas in the US, is running about $2.25 per gallon. That's almost half of what it costs in Germany! And with the upsurge in unemployment, we've now got almost HALF the unemployment rate of Germany and almost a THIRD of the unemployment rate in France. You see similar trends in housing (square meters per family)- maybe that's why we like big speakers and high-powered amps.

I just got through going over some numbers on upward mobility here; I don't have comparable numbers for Europe, but amazingly, looking at the bottom quintile of net worth, after ten years, only 8% of the people in that quintile are still there. Perhaps this is why the US is called the Land of Opportunity, and why so much of the world, rhetoric notwithstanding, is trying to move here.
 
#2,924
first I didn´t reffer to Groos domestic product but to growth factor.

second I am not german so stop calling me that.

third I don´t know any people who would want to move to america but I know personaly many americans here who don´t want to come back because of the situation there.

fourth what is bigger is not always better.
 
#2,926
SY said:
Just to put things in perspective, we've had some gasoline price shocks recently; the price here in California, the most expensive gas in the US, is running about $2.25 per gallon. That's almost half of what it costs in Germany! And with the upsurge in unemployment, we've now got almost HALF the unemployment rate of Germany and almost a THIRD of the unemployment rate in France.
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sure, more people have jobs in the us. but what kind of a job? Heavily underpaid, useless jobs for many. Like people (mostly black) that have to say "mind your step" every 10 seconds at airports. Or elderly people having to pack your groceries in a supermarket just to try to stay alive.

It's not because you have a "job" that the quality of your life is high, is it?

Many unemployed people over here are much better of then working people in the us.


You see similar trends in housing (square meters per family)- maybe that's why we like big speakers and high-powered amps.
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I never saw as many people living in trailers then when I was in the US.

The average house in a US city is certainly not bigger then one over here. They looked pretty small to me anyway.


Perhaps this is why the US is called the Land of Opportunity, and why so much of the world, rhetoric notwithstanding, is trying to move here.
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I dont know what they are thinking...
 
#2,927
promitheus said:

second I am not german so stop calling me that.
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Gee, I don't blame you for being annoyed that we call you a German, Promitheus. :grumpy:

Heck, all you do is have a German flag rippling in the wind as your avatar, you give your location as "Oberursel, (Taunus), Germany", and to top it all off, you referred to the German economy as "our" economy in post # 2911:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=229385#post229385

And the amazing thing is-the bracketed quote of yours shown above is still the most sensible thing you have posted all day!
 
#2,928
DIY_Peter said:

Many unemployed people over here [Belgium] are much better of then working people in the us.
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Depends what you mean by "unemployed". I imagine if you are a corporate VP who just came out on the wrong end of a rival's power play, then yes, you are going to be better off than the guy chugging along on $30,000 a year even though you just got told to clean out your desk.

By the way, are there no dishwashers in Belgium? Everybody eats at the Automat off paper plates? I am getting the impression that there are no low paid jobs in Belgium.



DIY_Peter said:

I never saw as many people living in trailers then when I was in the US.
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With a US population of 290 million, Belgians are likely to see a lot of things over here that they don't over there.


DIY_Peter said:

The average house in a US city is certainly not bigger then one over here. They looked pretty small to me anyway.
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Most of the US population lives in suburban locations. A typical metropolitan area has only about a third of it's population inside the city limits-the rest is suburban. While there certainly are very nice urban neighborhoods, in general the suburban neighborhoods have houses that are newer, larger, and have higher income people living in them.
 
#2,929
DIYPeter:

For all the differences you seem to find between the USA and Belgium, the United Nations/World Bank lists the USA only one notch under Belgium in quality of life, everything taken into account. Belgium is #6, USA #7.
http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicator/indic_111_1_1.html

Reading this and other posts of yours, you almost seem to rate the US living standards not as Third World, but perhaps similar to the breakaway Soviet republics that are presently having a hard time. The streets are not lined with gold here, but I think we are better off than you would make us out to be. 😉
 
#2,930
Hi,

The streets are not lined with gold here, but I think we are better off than you would make us out to be.
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This is one of those situations where, unless you have actually lived on the streets, you have no idea what it is you're talking about.

Chances are you're less likely to live on the streets in Europe as you were in the U.S.

We pay an awful lot of money to provide for the most unfortunate casualties in our society, it attracts a mass of immigrants just the same as CA would for it's climate and "golden" opportunities.

Having travelled the world and ran several global businesses I can only accuse Belgium of a few things:

Our current (last twenty years) policy towards enterpreneurship stinks big time; you need to be and stinking rich and bloody stupid to start up a business in Belgium....either way you're not encouraged to do so.

Mother state is just too greedy; which is one reason why petrol is soooo expensive here.

Another reason is that these high taxes are supposed to provide for funds to explore alternative energy resources; resources the US doesn't like us to explore.

It seems to me that having a college degree is no guarantee for intelligence either and the way the US educational system is set out is only emphasising this.

So please Mister America stop colonising Europe and
the rest of the world in the name of freedom...for it's only self-serving capitalism.

Stop the hypocrisy, explore Europe and its' climate and we'll welcome you back home to paradise.

Most of you are all Europeans after all, aren't you?

Cheers, 😉
 
#2,931
fdegrove said:

Another reason is that these [Belgian] high taxes are supposed to provide for funds to explore alternative energy resources; resources the US doesn't like us to explore.
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And we are stopping you how, exactly?


fdegrove said:

It seems to me that having a college degree is no guarantee for intelligence either...
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Excuse me, but were we talking about college anywhere? Frank, are you sure that you are posting in the right thread?

fdegrove said:

....and the way the US educational system is set out is only emphasising this.
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Apparently the American educational system is good enough to produce people who lead the world in patents and technology:
http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/press/99/pr9916.htm

fdegrove said:

So please Mister America stop colonising Europe and
the rest of the world in the name of freedom...
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Earth to F.deGrove: Europe colonized North America!


fdegrove said:
Stop the hypocrisy, explore Europe...
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Once again, Frank, let me re-emphasize: Europe explored North America.

Or do the textbooks in the Belgian educational system have it otherwise? 😉
 
#2,932
kelticwizard said:

Depends what you mean by "unemployed". I imagine if you are a corporate VP who just came out on the wrong end of a rival's power play, then yes, you are going to be better off than the guy chugging along on $30,000 a year even though you just got told to clean out your desk.

By the way, are there no dishwashers in Belgium? Everybody eats at the Automat off paper plates? I am getting the impression that there are no low paid jobs in Belgium.
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I said "useless" jobs! washing dishes isn't a useless job. Saying "mind your step all day" is. That's just a way to keep unemployemend figures down. That guy is probably getting less payed than the minimum wage over here. Does that exist over there? a minimum income?



With a US population of 290 million, Belgians are likely to see a lot of things over here that they don't over there.
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that's a correct sentense. but no way near an answer or argument.


Most of the US population lives in suburban locations. A typical metropolitan area has only about a third of it's population inside the city limits-the rest is suburban. While there certainly are very nice urban neighborhoods, in general the suburban neighborhoods have houses that are newer, larger, and have higher income people living in them.
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Well, I was talking about suburban neighbourhoods. Second, the percentage of people living in those very nice large homes with a lawn in front of it is not that big. That's reserved for the upper middle class, just like it is over here.


Quality of living is very subjective. I think the quality over here is a lot better, especially for the unfortunate among us. Better social security, not much crime, better choice in food 🙂

Things I like about the states: lots of parking space, free refill of your drinks.
 
#2,933
kelticwizard :

I know it´s hard for americans to recognize foreign flags but the one rippling in my avatar is a hellenic flag not a german. I am not mad when people call me a german, I just don´t want to be called that because I am not a german. And Germans are way more friendly, culctured and opened minded as americans. I can say that being sure because I know a lot of people from america here in frankfurt.

When I said our economy I ment the Europian economy because here we all live in the EU. No matter where you come from the laws in economy, work, social insurance etc are the same.
 
#2,934
Second, the percentage of people living in those very nice large homes with a lawn in front of it is not that big. That's reserved for the upper middle class, just like it is over here.
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That's pure nonsense. My neighborhood is very typical of the majority of this State (the largest state in the US by population); I have the smallest house here and it's about 200 sq meters, which would be rather large in Europe. I drive a Volkswagen. Are we "upper middle class"? Probably not. My next door neighbor is a policeman, his wife is a teacher. I run a small company. My other neighbor drives a truck. The guy behind me is an engineer. Next to him is a guy who cuts stone to make kitchen counters (I wish he could get me Corian!). No rock stars, no surgeons, no corporate presidents. Just solid, middle-class, ordinary, working Americans.

Saying "mind your step all day" is. That's just a way to keep unemployemend figures down. That guy is probably getting less payed than the minimum wage over here. Does that exist over there? a minimum income?
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I haven't ever seen someone in a job like that. There are some in New York, but they're the remnants of once-powerful unions and he's making as much money as an engineer. Yes, we do have a minimum wage.

You really have no clue about life in the US. Or as they say in Greek, "Sie haben keine Ahnung." 😉 And how someone from Greece, with a great culinary tradition, can stand the awful food there in Germany is beyond me.
 
#2,936
Germany is famous for lousy food. Second only to England. Good wine, though, better than Retsina, which to the uninitiated resembles turpentine. Greece has GREAT food. Germany makes GREAT cars, but they just can't cook.

My last time in Germany was this past spring, touring through the Palatinate, Mosel, and Pfalz. Everyone was excited because it was Spaergel season. We had it at seven or eight different (supposedly excellent) restaurants, and at each place, it was boiled into submission. Mmmmm, soggy asparagus! Getting back to France was a huge relief. Alsace is where the food is what Germans would make if only they were much better cooks than they are.
 
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