I'm sorry rhing but I'm not sure what rating is required. I personally used BYC8-600's which are rated at 8A. You could use the (very common & popular) MUR860's which are also rated at 8A if you wanted.
The diodes I used are ultrafast and I didn't put snubbers across them as that would defeat the purpose of using ultrafasts I believe. People say great things about using Shottkys & Hed-Freds for rectification, others advocate only using cheapie diodes and putting snubbers across them.
I'd like to do some more experimenting with different diodes in this position but it's low on my list of priorities right now.
I don't like "loose ends" in any design, so I cut the traces as close as possible to pin 9. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work if I cut them further from pin 9, but better to be safe than sorry...
On 3 tubes, that's easy to do, but on the fourth, you have to cut under the socket.
390 Ohms parallelled with 390 Ohms gives you exactly 195 Ohms.
My calculations came up with 200 Ohms, but I don't like wirewound resistors in the cathode, so I chose 2 x 390 Ohm 3Watt, higher power resistors are always wirewound.
And yes, you'll lose power, in triode mode, the amp will produce somewhat between 4 and 5 Watts. That's in worst case 3dB less in audio level, nothing to worry about.
On 3 tubes, that's easy to do, but on the fourth, you have to cut under the socket.
390 Ohms parallelled with 390 Ohms gives you exactly 195 Ohms.
My calculations came up with 200 Ohms, but I don't like wirewound resistors in the cathode, so I chose 2 x 390 Ohm 3Watt, higher power resistors are always wirewound.
And yes, you'll lose power, in triode mode, the amp will produce somewhat between 4 and 5 Watts. That's in worst case 3dB less in audio level, nothing to worry about.
Hi once again OneyedK,
I tried performing the Triode mod today but found myself rather confused after examining the board up close. I wasn't completely sure which pins on the EL84 sockets are actually pin 9 you see.
Is there any chance you could please do me a huge favor and by marking on the following image which socket pins actually actually pin 9? I'm paranoid that I might somehow cut traces to the wrong pin and be left with an expensive doorstop!
Speaking of the traces I must cut, can I please confirm with you which side of the board they are on?
Anyway, today wasn't a total loss for me. While I had the cover off the Suppo I replaced the four 0.1uF 400V caps with four Russian teflon FT3 caps. I immediately noticed a big jump in transparency and detail!
I also replaced the cheap pot a couple of days ago with an SMD stepped attenuator, but did not notice much difference other than much better channel matching.
I tried performing the Triode mod today but found myself rather confused after examining the board up close. I wasn't completely sure which pins on the EL84 sockets are actually pin 9 you see.
Is there any chance you could please do me a huge favor and by marking on the following image which socket pins actually actually pin 9? I'm paranoid that I might somehow cut traces to the wrong pin and be left with an expensive doorstop!
Speaking of the traces I must cut, can I please confirm with you which side of the board they are on?
Anyway, today wasn't a total loss for me. While I had the cover off the Suppo I replaced the four 0.1uF 400V caps with four Russian teflon FT3 caps. I immediately noticed a big jump in transparency and detail!
I also replaced the cheap pot a couple of days ago with an SMD stepped attenuator, but did not notice much difference other than much better channel matching.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The traces of pin 9 go directly to B+ capacitors.
They're on the component side of the pcb.
Did a (sloppy, sorry) markup of your picture, leftmost socket has to be removed to cut closely to the pin.
If I have to take the picture myself, I'll have to disassemble the whole unit again, don't know when I'll find time to do that
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I still have to do that, suspected those little buggers (bad copies?) from day 1.
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I agree, this is mostly a ridiculous request.I for one, so far, would like to see better transformers, a full factory triode mode, better internal components, wood cases, and better top grade NOS tubes.
I think that a simple switch to triode mode and good coupling capacitors (polystyrol: ~0,8$ pp, wima mkp10: 0,4$ pp) would be very good improvements for very little money.
The traces of pin 9 go directly to B+ capacitors.
They're on the component side of the pcb.
Did a (sloppy, sorry) markup of your picture, leftmost socket has to be removed to cut closely to the pin.
If I have to take the picture myself, I'll have to disassemble the whole unit again, don't know when I'll find time to do that
I still have to do that, suspected those little buggers (bad copies?) from day 1.
Excellent. Many thanks for clarifying that for me! I will give the mod another try tomorrow and report back on my results.
Thanks again!
Hi All
We have the EL34 ready for DIYers.
2 pcs of the commander EL34-silver and 1pcs of EL34-platinum.
The Silver:Shuguang EL34*4, 12AT7*1, 6N6*2
the platinum: SHUANGUANG Treasure EL34*4, NOS 6CG7*1, 6N6*2
SHUANGUANG Treasure EL34, no doubt excellent tube.
NOS 6CG7, (RCA/GE/Westinhouse/Sylvania etc. all made in USA tube, the best 6CG7 NOS tube we collect for years)
Amazing special intro price for DIYAUDIO:
Commander EL34 Silver US$350,
Platinum US$700;
shipping to US/West Europe : US$180
this is a real AMP can bring you the sound and the soul of music.
14/Feb is chinese new year. many factory including our case supplier is closed for holiday until 24/Feb. We will have more coming after we are back to work.
For those who want this AMP EL34 early, please contact Joed@suppomodel.com. the EMS carriers will stop taking any parcel from 10/Feb in China. So we have only 3 days to handle your order.
Thanks all
Joe
suppoaudio
We have the EL34 ready for DIYers.
2 pcs of the commander EL34-silver and 1pcs of EL34-platinum.
The Silver:Shuguang EL34*4, 12AT7*1, 6N6*2
the platinum: SHUANGUANG Treasure EL34*4, NOS 6CG7*1, 6N6*2
SHUANGUANG Treasure EL34, no doubt excellent tube.
NOS 6CG7, (RCA/GE/Westinhouse/Sylvania etc. all made in USA tube, the best 6CG7 NOS tube we collect for years)
Amazing special intro price for DIYAUDIO:
Commander EL34 Silver US$350,
Platinum US$700;
shipping to US/West Europe : US$180
this is a real AMP can bring you the sound and the soul of music.
14/Feb is chinese new year. many factory including our case supplier is closed for holiday until 24/Feb. We will have more coming after we are back to work.
For those who want this AMP EL34 early, please contact Joed@suppomodel.com. the EMS carriers will stop taking any parcel from 10/Feb in China. So we have only 3 days to handle your order.
Thanks all
Joe
suppoaudio
I have to say truely thank you all for pointing out the problems with the EL84.
cannot list everyone, but I have to say thanks again.
the EL84 is a only a cheap starter. We will have more edition later to meet different requirements and price range. We alreay fond better components such as the Vol pot, switch. and We already install the fuse on the EL34 and second edition EL84.
for the triod mode, we concern power loss. We will Bosk whether realy sactisfiy with the mod
And sure better transformers. we will wire the transformer ourself. Don't forget that we already wire hundreds of thousands brushless motors. we know how to do a good job. later I will post more diagrams of our transformers. something you may not believe.
thanks
Joe
cannot list everyone, but I have to say thanks again.
the EL84 is a only a cheap starter. We will have more edition later to meet different requirements and price range. We alreay fond better components such as the Vol pot, switch. and We already install the fuse on the EL34 and second edition EL84.
for the triod mode, we concern power loss. We will Bosk whether realy sactisfiy with the mod
And sure better transformers. we will wire the transformer ourself. Don't forget that we already wire hundreds of thousands brushless motors. we know how to do a good job. later I will post more diagrams of our transformers. something you may not believe.
thanks
Joe
I'm curious on the tube complement for this amp; I wasn't aware the 6CG7 was a direct supplement for the 12AT7. Can anyone comment? Also, the 6N6 tube is a curiosity and a little googling didn't make things any better. I found some old RCA 6N6 tubes but they look like a completely different animal. I've seen reference to the idea that Chinese 6N6 tubes are actually the same as Russian 6N6P tubes or Russian 6H6 tubes. Thoughts?
Suppo GV-1 at the San Francisco Vacuum Tube Users Group Meeting
Yesterday, I attended the San Francisco Vacuum Tube Users Group meeting held at the Randall Museum's auditorium. I brought my slightly modded Suppo Golden Voice amp with me for the other members to compare it to other amps. For some background, most of the members are solid DIYers and audiophiles who have built some great sounding amplifiers including 300B SETs, EL84 P-P amps and a number of nice tube preamps. The Randall Museum's auditorium has a pair of Klipsch Chorus loudspeakers, which are very efficient and very versatile for accommodating many different amplifiers.
We listened to a few solid state amps first, since one of the members recently made a Pass DIY "DeLite" depletion mode MOSFET amp, the same simple amp that Nelson Pass unveiled at last Fall's Burning Amp Festival in Sausalito, CA. We also heard a modified Pass DIY Zen amp and a very nice Plinius integrated amplifier. The "DeLite" amp had a high output impedance, so it had some impedance matching issues with the 8 ohm Klipsch Chorus speakers. The other solid state amps sounded fuller and more musical. However, the crowd was getting restless and wanted to hear some tube amps, so first up was the Suppo.
The only signal path upgrades I've made so far was upgrading the signal wiring to Teflon-insulated Silver wire, installing an SMD stepped attenuator, upgrading the driver tubes to RCA clear top 6FQ7s and the power tubes to new production Genelex Gold Lion EL84 reissues. I explained to everyone that I purchased the amp for $130 including shipping on Suppo's introductory deal. We turned the stepped attenuator to full volume and we connected it to a nice custom-built 6SN7-based preamp driven by a very nice Marantz SA-11S1 SACD/CD player. Agt first, I don't think anyone took the amp seriously when I told them the price and amplifier's Chinese origins.
That changed once the music began playing and the tubes were given more time to warm up a bit. Compared to the previously heard solid state amps, the tube warmth and large soundstage filled the auditorium with tuneful music. Everyone kept saying they couldn't believe how great this little Chinese amp sounded. In fact, when the audition of several tracks came to an end, almost everyone in the auditorium applauded the amp. Following the Suppo, we did hear some very fine amplifiers including a heavily modified vintage Grommes EL84 P-P amplifier playing in triode mode, and a pair of highly modified vintage EL84 console P-P monoblocks. It was evident that better power and output transformers make a huge improvement in sound quality (tighter, deeper bass, richer mids and highs, larger soundstage, more precise imaging, etc.), but the little Suppo was a surprise to most of the members there. Some of the guys there felt that all the amp needed for improvement would be new coupling caps, which I do plan on changing. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe receives some new inquiries from people in San Franciso.
Yesterday, I attended the San Francisco Vacuum Tube Users Group meeting held at the Randall Museum's auditorium. I brought my slightly modded Suppo Golden Voice amp with me for the other members to compare it to other amps. For some background, most of the members are solid DIYers and audiophiles who have built some great sounding amplifiers including 300B SETs, EL84 P-P amps and a number of nice tube preamps. The Randall Museum's auditorium has a pair of Klipsch Chorus loudspeakers, which are very efficient and very versatile for accommodating many different amplifiers.
We listened to a few solid state amps first, since one of the members recently made a Pass DIY "DeLite" depletion mode MOSFET amp, the same simple amp that Nelson Pass unveiled at last Fall's Burning Amp Festival in Sausalito, CA. We also heard a modified Pass DIY Zen amp and a very nice Plinius integrated amplifier. The "DeLite" amp had a high output impedance, so it had some impedance matching issues with the 8 ohm Klipsch Chorus speakers. The other solid state amps sounded fuller and more musical. However, the crowd was getting restless and wanted to hear some tube amps, so first up was the Suppo.
The only signal path upgrades I've made so far was upgrading the signal wiring to Teflon-insulated Silver wire, installing an SMD stepped attenuator, upgrading the driver tubes to RCA clear top 6FQ7s and the power tubes to new production Genelex Gold Lion EL84 reissues. I explained to everyone that I purchased the amp for $130 including shipping on Suppo's introductory deal. We turned the stepped attenuator to full volume and we connected it to a nice custom-built 6SN7-based preamp driven by a very nice Marantz SA-11S1 SACD/CD player. Agt first, I don't think anyone took the amp seriously when I told them the price and amplifier's Chinese origins.
That changed once the music began playing and the tubes were given more time to warm up a bit. Compared to the previously heard solid state amps, the tube warmth and large soundstage filled the auditorium with tuneful music. Everyone kept saying they couldn't believe how great this little Chinese amp sounded. In fact, when the audition of several tracks came to an end, almost everyone in the auditorium applauded the amp. Following the Suppo, we did hear some very fine amplifiers including a heavily modified vintage Grommes EL84 P-P amplifier playing in triode mode, and a pair of highly modified vintage EL84 console P-P monoblocks. It was evident that better power and output transformers make a huge improvement in sound quality (tighter, deeper bass, richer mids and highs, larger soundstage, more precise imaging, etc.), but the little Suppo was a surprise to most of the members there. Some of the guys there felt that all the amp needed for improvement would be new coupling caps, which I do plan on changing. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe receives some new inquiries from people in San Franciso.
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TOLD YA.
If Suppo went public this early, I'd almost buy their stock LOL. (see previous posts).
SPAUDIO-Joed- please check in with your improvements, ideas, upgrades, and STATUS on your Golden Voice GV1 and 2.
Don't let the naysayers here keep you down cost wise from needed improvements, mods, and upgrades in your stock models.
EVERYONE ELSE- Please refrain from using the $130usd standard as the status quo and frame of cost reference. This only encourages the overpriced traditional brand names and manufacturers to slap and down grade Suppo's GV series even more since they never compare local sales tax vs shipping costs. The GV is $200usd comparable or more because shipping IS a cost of anything.
cats out of the bag
Hi Rhing
Nice to hear that people are starting to take notice. I have the clear tops and lions tubes, and some Russian Ft-3s coupling. It sounds fantastic. I ordered new output transformers, resistors, and a new power transformer last week. I am waiting to hear the results in triode mode.
JimS
Hi Rhing
Nice to hear that people are starting to take notice. I have the clear tops and lions tubes, and some Russian Ft-3s coupling. It sounds fantastic. I ordered new output transformers, resistors, and a new power transformer last week. I am waiting to hear the results in triode mode.
JimS
Jim- really interested in knowing your outcome and results! Please pass the results along to Joed @SPAUDIO for the heck of it. Still can't get a definitive basic list of basic mods (that spaudio is hopefully incorporating now). Especially your triode mode. Note the word definitive...
I haven't got around to performing the Triode mod just yet, but installing the FT-3 coupling caps was something of a revelation for me. I now feel as though the little Suppo brings me significantly closer to the music than it did before. "Transparency" is definitely the word that springs to mind when listening to it, particularly late at night and after the tubes have been on for a few hours.
I do have a concern regarding the internal wiring however.
I originally replaced the input cable which goes from the RCAs to the volume pot with a twisted pair set of silver/teflon hookup wire.
My concern is that due to lack of space inside the amp these wires must be placed directly next to one of the output transformers. The cable I replaced was shielded whereas my silver/teflon replacement is not.
Should I take steps to shield my replacement input wires?
I do have a concern regarding the internal wiring however.
I originally replaced the input cable which goes from the RCAs to the volume pot with a twisted pair set of silver/teflon hookup wire.
My concern is that due to lack of space inside the amp these wires must be placed directly next to one of the output transformers. The cable I replaced was shielded whereas my silver/teflon replacement is not.
Should I take steps to shield my replacement input wires?
That's fantastic to hear that the Suppo performed so well rhing!
I bet the crowd was really knocked out given the price.
Out of interest, did all of the EL84 amps share the same flavor of sound?
I'm about to upgrade the valves in my Suppo and had considered going with the Genalex EL84 re-issues and RCA 6CG7 clear-tops which I've read great things about.
Does it really make sense to spend as much on valves as I have on the amp itself though?
Cheers.
Thankyou Joe for giving us the excellent Suppo GV!I have to say truely thank you all for pointing out the problems with the EL84.
cannot list everyone, but I have to say thanks again.
the EL84 is a only a cheap starter. We will have more edition later to meet different requirements and price range. We alreay fond better components such as the Vol pot, switch. and We already install the fuse on the EL34 and second edition EL84.
for the triod mode, we concern power loss. We will Bosk whether realy sactisfiy with the mod
And sure better transformers. we will wire the transformer ourself. Don't forget that we already wire hundreds of thousands brushless motors. we know how to do a good job. later I will post more diagrams of our transformers. something you may not believe.
thanks
Joe
One of the reasons I bought the Suppo was because unlike many other Chinese amps the case is very 'no-nonsense' and minimalist.
Many Chinese tube amps have so much "bling-bling" like fake hardwood panels or gold-plated chassis, which I feel can look really over-the-top.
I think a market definitely exists for affordable, great-sounding tube amps presented in a simple but functional enclosure.
That's fantastic to hear that the Suppo performed so well rhing!
I bet the crowd was really knocked out given the price.
Out of interest, did all of the EL84 amps share the same flavor of sound?
I'm about to upgrade the valves in my Suppo and had considered going with the Genalex EL84 re-issues and RCA 6CG7 clear-tops which I've read great things about.
Does it really make sense to spend as much on valves as I have on the amp itself though?
Cheers.
I most definitely do NOT think you should spend as much on tubes as you did on the amp. I'm using some RCA blackplate 6CG7's that I think are a nice improvement over stock but I got 12 of them for 12 bucks. I have some of the clear tops but haven't tried them yet. I think those blackplates are great though. I also think this amp pretty much screams out "Russian tubes." I've been really impressed with the Russian stuff I've been trying recently and I think you probably couldn't go wrong here.
Now, all that being said, I haven't heard the GL's so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
Wow, you're really going all out! Take lots of pics because I'm sure we'd love to see how things turn out.
I don't think anyone is expecting all Suppo offerings to be 200 USD, but I'm sure that's one of the reasons that so many of us bought the EL84 so quickly. With the new EL34 amp, with shipping we've shot past the $500 mark and also past most/all of the other Chinese EL34 based amps on ebay. Now, $500+ might still be a great price, we'll have to hear it to know, but I know at the asking price its more than I can drop to try out something unknown.
I totally understand that Suppo has got to make a profit so Joe needs to charge what he needs to charge. That being said, is anyone here going to buy the EL34 at the asking price? I'm sincerely curious. I really wanted one but I thought it would be the killer deal that the EL84 amp was; not the same price, but at $500+ I don't think the new amp is a KILLER deal.
Anyway, enough of my rambling.
Thanks rhing,
It is very exciting and encouraging.
I would thanks all our DIYers' care and toerlance of the bugs of the EL84.
I have told my partners. we agree to offer the best of the best price of $290 for EL34-Silver for trial period and thanks our DIYAUDIO members.
Besides, we have just get a quote from our delivery agent. for this month, Feb, we can ship this amp at $150 to USA/West EU. So $440 delivered. (for other area please ask for quote).
I hope this AMP can bring more fun and joy for you.
We will make it better with your help
Thanks
Joe
suppoaudio.com
It is very exciting and encouraging.
I would thanks all our DIYers' care and toerlance of the bugs of the EL84.
I have told my partners. we agree to offer the best of the best price of $290 for EL34-Silver for trial period and thanks our DIYAUDIO members.
Besides, we have just get a quote from our delivery agent. for this month, Feb, we can ship this amp at $150 to USA/West EU. So $440 delivered. (for other area please ask for quote).
I hope this AMP can bring more fun and joy for you.
We will make it better with your help
Thanks
Joe
suppoaudio.com
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