Hi,
I've got a pair of active XO that i'll be assembling over the weekend, each one has 5 dual op-amps on board.
I will also be powering a hpf alongside the xo, from the same supply (230 in).
I bought a standard PCB mount transformer block (0.25VA/12v) but I was advised by the seller (of the xo kits) that this one would not be sufficient to power all 3 circuits.
I was recommended a 5VA transformer but I'm unsure of what voltage rating to look for.
Any tips? remembering this is line level signals, just want as much as is needed, thanks!
I've got a pair of active XO that i'll be assembling over the weekend, each one has 5 dual op-amps on board.
I will also be powering a hpf alongside the xo, from the same supply (230 in).
I bought a standard PCB mount transformer block (0.25VA/12v) but I was advised by the seller (of the xo kits) that this one would not be sufficient to power all 3 circuits.
I was recommended a 5VA transformer but I'm unsure of what voltage rating to look for.
Any tips? remembering this is line level signals, just want as much as is needed, thanks!
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Use a minimum 20VA transformer with 15 - 0 - 15 Volts secondary followed by LM7815 and LM7915 voltage regulator IC's to provide your DC supplies.
Info on the circuitry is within the datasheets, available from many sources on the net.
Line outputs can draw more current than expected especially if presented with lowish impedance loads
hope this assists
Mik
Info on the circuitry is within the datasheets, available from many sources on the net.
Line outputs can draw more current than expected especially if presented with lowish impedance loads
hope this assists
Mik
thanks mik,
merlin, I do not know how much current each draws no.
All I know from product page: single PCB needs a "dual dc power supply of 2 x 6V".
Seller said: "2 x 12V is a bit high. I would say if you are determined to run the crossovers at this voltage make sure the supply is well regulated and never exceeds this or you risk damaging the op-amps.." which seems in line with what mik says regarding regulating...
mooley, no, no regs on board: eBay ID: 111280863327
merlin, I do not know how much current each draws no.
All I know from product page: single PCB needs a "dual dc power supply of 2 x 6V".
Seller said: "2 x 12V is a bit high. I would say if you are determined to run the crossovers at this voltage make sure the supply is well regulated and never exceeds this or you risk damaging the op-amps.." which seems in line with what mik says regarding regulating...
mooley, no, no regs on board: eBay ID: 111280863327
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OK, those boards are shown as using OPA2134 FET opamps which draw around 10ma per device. So that's 150 milliamps quiescent so you need to add a safety margin and allow for dynamic conditions. So you are looking at around a -/+250 plus milliamp supply.
IMPORTANT. those boards can not accept AC from a transformer. They need a stable DC supply of -/+15 volts. If you connect a transformer the opamps and any electrolytics will be destroyed instantly.
IMPORTANT. those boards can not accept AC from a transformer. They need a stable DC supply of -/+15 volts. If you connect a transformer the opamps and any electrolytics will be destroyed instantly.
You need something like this together with a transformer,
Low Noise +/-15V Regulator Module, for Audio OPAMP. | eBay
There is a circuit diagram given and its easy and cheap to make something similar from separate components.
Low Noise +/-15V Regulator Module, for Audio OPAMP. | eBay
There is a circuit diagram given and its easy and cheap to make something similar from separate components.
The output current of an opamp is fed into the feedback and into the load and into any added capacitance.
This Loading can be very significant, particularly with regard to transients in music signals.
The supply rail has to supply the quiescent current to run the opamp AND the output current fed to that complex and demanding load.
You, the designer, have to work out, or guess at, a sensible total supply current for all the opamps and all the different loads.
I'd suggest Iq + 10mA for each opamp.
opa2134 are dual opamps, that is 10 channels for the 5 chips,
6mA of Iq and 10mApk of transient load current times ten ~ 160mApk.
Much of this comes from the chip decoupling.
The regulators see very little of the transient loading.
The continuous load on the regulators could be around 70mA.
A drop across the regs of 10V gives an average dissipation of 0.7W, not worth adding a heatsink.
This Loading can be very significant, particularly with regard to transients in music signals.
The supply rail has to supply the quiescent current to run the opamp AND the output current fed to that complex and demanding load.
You, the designer, have to work out, or guess at, a sensible total supply current for all the opamps and all the different loads.
I'd suggest Iq + 10mA for each opamp.
opa2134 are dual opamps, that is 10 channels for the 5 chips,
6mA of Iq and 10mApk of transient load current times ten ~ 160mApk.
Much of this comes from the chip decoupling.
The regulators see very little of the transient loading.
The continuous load on the regulators could be around 70mA.
A drop across the regs of 10V gives an average dissipation of 0.7W, not worth adding a heatsink.
There was me thinking a transformer was all I needed to convert to DC to form a power supply!
You have to decide whether you need a "kit" or whether you would be happy wiring the separate parts together which is easy.
There is one more alternative, and that is to use a small cheap "wall wart" of say 12 volts DC output and use one of these which generates a -/+ 15 volt rail,
There are only 5 connections. Two for the input and three for the output, plus 15, zero and minus 15 volts.
10PWRA1215D - POWERPAX - 10W REG DIP 12V IN / + - 15V OUT | CPC
A PCB mount transformer should be fine. Ill echo some comments here and suggest that its unlikely you'll need heatsinks for the 7812/7912.
I typically use a Block 6 VA 9-0-9v transformers with 7812/7912, or 6VA 12-0-12v with 7815/7915 regs. With the 15v regs i have considered that 9 VA MIGHT be better.
I find that's enough capacity for a couple of quad ICs. If i were powering 4 quads id probably go to 9-12VA.
I typically use a Block 6 VA 9-0-9v transformers with 7812/7912, or 6VA 12-0-12v with 7815/7915 regs. With the 15v regs i have considered that 9 VA MIGHT be better.
I find that's enough capacity for a couple of quad ICs. If i were powering 4 quads id probably go to 9-12VA.
Alright,
Wait a minute, is a single regulated +/-15v (12v) enough for two xo boards, or?
Not sure what to go for 12 or 15, but i'm sure we mean 15v+/- for the whole ensemble (ie, hpf+xo's)/
Regarding the basic HPF circuit i'm doing - it has a single op amp, a + and - connection, that is the only 'live' part of this circuit (seperate from line level), does this mean its also "dual symetric", i.e. can I just stick hpf to the end of a 15+/- reg? - I can't really see a common line in this circuit.
Prefer the seperate parts wayYou have to decide whether you need a "kit" or whether you would be happy wiring the separate parts together which is easy.
Wait a minute, is a single regulated +/-15v (12v) enough for two xo boards, or?
Not sure what to go for 12 or 15, but i'm sure we mean 15v+/- for the whole ensemble (ie, hpf+xo's)/
Regarding the basic HPF circuit i'm doing - it has a single op amp, a + and - connection, that is the only 'live' part of this circuit (seperate from line level), does this mean its also "dual symetric", i.e. can I just stick hpf to the end of a 15+/- reg? - I can't really see a common line in this circuit.
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higher transformer voltage makes the regulators run hotter.
lower transformer voltage runs the risk of the regulators dropping out when mains voltage goes low.
In the UK the lowest mains voltage is 216Vac.
If you use a 230:12Vac transformer @ full load and 216Vac mains voltage, then you will get ~11.27Vac before the rectifiers. This is too low for 15Vdc output
If you use a 230:15Vac 15% regulation transformer @ near zero load you will get ~19.05Vac before the rectifiers when Mains is at a maximum of 254Vac. This will dissipate ~1.9W, when delivering 160mA
You have to design such that the regulator never drops out during your target operational conditions and never overheats in your worst case conditions.
lower transformer voltage runs the risk of the regulators dropping out when mains voltage goes low.
In the UK the lowest mains voltage is 216Vac.
If you use a 230:12Vac transformer @ full load and 216Vac mains voltage, then you will get ~11.27Vac before the rectifiers. This is too low for 15Vdc output
If you use a 230:15Vac 15% regulation transformer @ near zero load you will get ~19.05Vac before the rectifiers when Mains is at a maximum of 254Vac. This will dissipate ~1.9W, when delivering 160mA
You have to design such that the regulator never drops out during your target operational conditions and never overheats in your worst case conditions.
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Alright,
Prefer the seperate parts way
Wait a minute, is a single regulated +/-15v (12v) enough for two xo boards, or?
Not sure what to go for 12 or 15, but i'm sure we mean 15v+/- for the whole ensemble (ie, hpf+xo's)/
Regarding the basic HPF circuit i'm doing - it has a single op amp, a + and - connection, that is the only 'live' part of this circuit (seperate from line level), does this mean its also "dual symetric", i.e. can I just stick hpf to the end of a 15+/- reg? - I can't really see a common line in this circuit.
I merely meant the assembled regulating PCB mooley linked to could be done cheaper -
Here is what I would do. Power the opamps from a -/+15 vdc supply.
That means you need one of these which is easy to wire and easy to mount,
CTFC12-15 - CAMDENBOSS - TRANSFORMER, 12VA, 2 X 15V | CPC
You also need a 7815 and a 7915 regulators together with two small heatsinks such as,
L7815ACV - STMICROELECTRONICS - V REG +15V, 7815, TO-220-3 | CPC From This Range
L7915ACV - STMICROELECTRONICS - V REG -15V, 7915, TO-220-3 | CPC From This Range
FK 220 SA 220 - FISCHER ELEKTRONIK - HEAT SINK, TO-220, 25°C/W | CPC From This Range
And a bridge rectifier which can be mounted on the transformer tags,
2KBP02PBF - VISHAY FORMERLY I.R. - BRIDGE RECTIFIER, 2A 200V | CPC From This Range&MER=e-bb45-00001003
Two reservoir caps,
ECA1VM222 - PANASONIC - CAPACITOR, 2200UF, 35V | CPC
You can add as much extra decoupling as you want but the above is the minimum.
I am thinking of using two ald "scrap" laptop chargers to get 2 x 19VDC then run this through 15VDC regulators... good idea?
Its hugely dependent on the PSU's (grounding arrangements internally) and your intended use.
I wouldn't even contemplate it tbh.
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