JLH have you tried the Celestion TF0510?
I have been looking at so many builds in the past and just get confused on the matter. From the Faital drivers to Celestion to Pyle I am just trying to find a mid range that looks like a winner from your perspective and go from there. I need to make saw dust to really learn anything. I try to simulate but learn much quicker with touching.
I was looking at do something with the components such as a SH50 has to start. SH64 is what I would like to do but all honesty that would get VERY expensive for me using four 15's per speaker. Four 12's total would be ok but I plan on slowly gathering these parts each month and going from there.
The 12's would most likely be 18 Sound products because I can get those for the best deal out of any of the other manufacturers. Mids I am stuck with PE.
SO sorry to keep asking these beginner questions but I need to start building and stop wasting time. I really need to stop building subs for the most part.
Either way thanks to everyone.
I have been looking at so many builds in the past and just get confused on the matter. From the Faital drivers to Celestion to Pyle I am just trying to find a mid range that looks like a winner from your perspective and go from there. I need to make saw dust to really learn anything. I try to simulate but learn much quicker with touching.
I was looking at do something with the components such as a SH50 has to start. SH64 is what I would like to do but all honesty that would get VERY expensive for me using four 15's per speaker. Four 12's total would be ok but I plan on slowly gathering these parts each month and going from there.
The 12's would most likely be 18 Sound products because I can get those for the best deal out of any of the other manufacturers. Mids I am stuck with PE.
SO sorry to keep asking these beginner questions but I need to start building and stop wasting time. I really need to stop building subs for the most part.
Either way thanks to everyone.
Wow nice one.
If you guys want to make your lives a lot easier I'd strongly consider something like this driver. If you read some of the reviews of the Synergy horns from the employees at DSL, a lot of them seem to imply that the molded Synergy horns, which use the very expensive BMS coax, are some of the best sounding.
The B&C doesn't look quite as nice as the BMS, but it's also less than half the cost.
Now if only it were in stock...
The lens in the B&O speakers, which basically acts like a horn with two of the walls removed, is a fibonacci spiral
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here's a better pic of the final product
The $5 midranges from Goldwood work shockingly well. I've tried the following drivers and the Goldwoods are in my top three. For the price they're untouchable.
Drivers I've tried in no particular order:
1) Goldwood 4" cone tweeters
2) TB 2" paper cone midranges W2-854SH
3) Misco 5" closed back midranges (likely same driver as used by Sound Physics Labs and Lambda)
4) Misco 5" open back midrange, closed up by yours truly
5) Pyle 5" closed back midranges
6) Peerless 2" midranges
7) Peerless 3" midranges
8) Aurasound 2" whispers, same driver as used in Pluto
9) Faital 3FE20
Of those nine drivers, I found that the Peerless and the Tangband sounded the best. The Pyle works well, but due to it's size and it's parameters, it forces me to push the xover lower on the compression driver.
The Goldwood is a nice sweet spot. Not as big as the Pyle, but much much much more sensitive than the TB or the Peerless.
If push came to shove I'd probably go with the Peerless 2", but it also costs 5x as much.
The Fostex FF85WK would likely make a KILLER driver for a Synergy horn, as it has all the good features of the Faital 3FE20, but to my ears it sounds better. The price is basically the same.
505 = The Madisound Speaker Store No recess for surround needed, phase plug to help with turbulence.
Does Goldwood only make 5 1/4" sealed midranges?
Have you tried any of the 5 1/4 mids PB?
I saw the tweeter but didnt know how that was going to work in a 3 way. Figure the CD will cross around 1200hz to the mids. The Fostex looks nice also but is 3x's the price as the Goldwood's. I figure I will use four mids for each horn. Those Faital's look very nice also. Keep thinking I will need closed back mids for my horns but I guess I will find out when I try out a pair of normal ones first. Goldwood prices make things easier to start sooner also.
505 are 80 dollars each. Bit much for me. But you wouldnt need much of a recess would you on a mid that has 1-1.5mm of Xmax?
Have you tried any of the 5 1/4 mids PB?
I saw the tweeter but didnt know how that was going to work in a 3 way. Figure the CD will cross around 1200hz to the mids. The Fostex looks nice also but is 3x's the price as the Goldwood's. I figure I will use four mids for each horn. Those Faital's look very nice also. Keep thinking I will need closed back mids for my horns but I guess I will find out when I try out a pair of normal ones first. Goldwood prices make things easier to start sooner also.
505 are 80 dollars each. Bit much for me. But you wouldnt need much of a recess would you on a mid that has 1-1.5mm of Xmax?
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I'm not using the mids - I'm using the tweeters:
Goldwood GT-25 4" Cone Tweeter 270-018
I have a couple of them on a small horn here; I'll post the measurement at some point today.
These are virtually identical to the Misco cone tweeters that JLH had good results with. And cheap cheap cheap
Main downside to these is that they have virtually no excursion. On the upside, the lack of any suspension whatsoever means that their MMS in insanely low. JLH described them as an 'almost resistive load' on a horn.
For instance, I've noticed that the Pyle, with it's heavy treated cone and foam surround can sound a bit 'slow' on a horn. This is due to the very high QTS.
That problem would be reduced by a very big horn, but my horns never are.
So in my situation, with relatively small horns, the tiny drivers work best.
The Goldwood is larger than the Peerless, but it's very low MMS sounds 'fast' on a horn.
Again, very subjective. But you can't argue that the QTS of the Pyle is kinda ugly.
Gm did touch on some of the desirable T/S. However, what works best will be different for every combination of drivers and horn. You can't just throw out some numbers and say "this" will work. Best to simulate and see what can or can't work. Many of the drivers that look like crap on paper can often work the best. It all just depends on the overall design.
Besides a lovely Golden Ratio port shape........
Just wanna mention...remind..
Has anyone wrapped their head around Bob Fulton's Oval Window SHAPE for a port, with possible advantages?
Bob, a trumpeter, used to design high performance trumpet mouthpieces by ear, and he generally was inventive ( Fulton Lightning Oil for valves anyone?) and musically intuitive.
Oval Window, as in his early 1980s speakers.
Jeff
Just wanna mention...remind..
Has anyone wrapped their head around Bob Fulton's Oval Window SHAPE for a port, with possible advantages?
Bob, a trumpeter, used to design high performance trumpet mouthpieces by ear, and he generally was inventive ( Fulton Lightning Oil for valves anyone?) and musically intuitive.
Oval Window, as in his early 1980s speakers.
Jeff
I was making the assumption that was exactly what you had planned. Even with two ports per mid, the ports start getting large with a 6" cone. You'll have a hard time keeping the port velocities below 17 m/s even at low power input levels. The larger mids have too much volume displacement.
I'm using a 1.4" exit BMS coax down to 450hz in a SEOS-24. You could get away using it as low in a similar sized UH or even lower(300hz) if you don't mind slightly higher distortion.
The rubber and foam surrounds are too compliant. You will never have a suspension "blowout", but under pressure they do deform. This will allow the cone to tilt and lead to voice coil rubbing. As difficult it is to design and build a Synergy horn, I want something that will last a lifetime. Rubber and foam surrounds don't fit this criteria. Why build something that will deteriorate in 10 - 15 years and be discontinued so you won't even be able to repair it? Buying extras and letting them sit in the box doesn't work either. Ozone will still deteriorate the surrounds over time. Treated cloth surrounds avoid all these issues. Tom Danley uses cloth surround mids and woofers in his own designs.
Thanks for that JLH and now I am curious what woofers have a cloth surround?
I dont know which woofers Tom has used in his SH's so I will have to learn this. I was thinking 12's or 15's with 10mm Xmax but all of them have accordion style surrounds. I know PHL has cloth surrounds on their some of their speakers but which bass drivers have cloth surrounds?
Sorry if this has been mentioned before.
I dont know which woofers Tom has used in his SH's so I will have to learn this. I was thinking 12's or 15's with 10mm Xmax but all of them have accordion style surrounds. I know PHL has cloth surrounds on their some of their speakers but which bass drivers have cloth surrounds?
Sorry if this has been mentioned before.
I'm pretty sure PB is talking about the traditional cone/comp driver coax used on some of the Danley stuff.