Not to butt into this thread, but....
I've been a working bass player for about 20 years. I had the bright idea to try the car subwoofer experiment when a local store had 10" IMPP (cheap Pioneer, I believe) subs on sale for $65/pair (US). The verdict: surprisingly good.
For what it's worth, here's what I discovered. First I tried them in a small sealed box. This worked okay unless I kicked up the bass (I was afraid a voice coil might go flying across the room). Better I think to tune the cabinet a little too high than too low--a well-thumped low string is mighty. That behind me and really wanting some low end thump, I built a fourth-order bandpass box (thanks WinISD) and the results have been amazing. Very solid to about 150 hz and surprisingly good power handling. The published power rating is 125 watts each. I have them wired in series and run 250 watts at them all night.
I like what I've ended up with. A "rumble box" to take the beating in the low frequencies, and a 2 X 12" to handle everything above 200 hz or so. One more thing: A compressor on the bass guitar is absolutely a necessity. These car speakers cannot handle the transients an uncompressed bass delivers.
So, it can be done. This is my introduction to this site. Hope I haven't broken protocol. Very good postings and good information here.
I've been a working bass player for about 20 years. I had the bright idea to try the car subwoofer experiment when a local store had 10" IMPP (cheap Pioneer, I believe) subs on sale for $65/pair (US). The verdict: surprisingly good.
For what it's worth, here's what I discovered. First I tried them in a small sealed box. This worked okay unless I kicked up the bass (I was afraid a voice coil might go flying across the room). Better I think to tune the cabinet a little too high than too low--a well-thumped low string is mighty. That behind me and really wanting some low end thump, I built a fourth-order bandpass box (thanks WinISD) and the results have been amazing. Very solid to about 150 hz and surprisingly good power handling. The published power rating is 125 watts each. I have them wired in series and run 250 watts at them all night.
I like what I've ended up with. A "rumble box" to take the beating in the low frequencies, and a 2 X 12" to handle everything above 200 hz or so. One more thing: A compressor on the bass guitar is absolutely a necessity. These car speakers cannot handle the transients an uncompressed bass delivers.
So, it can be done. This is my introduction to this site. Hope I haven't broken protocol. Very good postings and good information here.
hi barton , welcome and thank u so much for postin ...
i m tryin to build a box w the help of simon5 & quasi ( i thank them too muxh ) and the parameters they give me ...& u think i need a compressor ???... i built one bout a year befor ... it was ross compressor , u can find the schematics and pcb layouts on www.tonepad.com ..
i donno if u try it or not ,,, but it don satisfy me , maybe cuz i expect it too much ... what is exatcly a compressor will doin here .. ???
the subs may have problem w bass frequancies but does the compressor change the freq for them ? so they can handle it better ??? ( sorry maybe my question seems silly 😛 but i confused )
do u have any idea for compressor & specialy limiter barton ???
any idea will be sooooooooooooooooo welcome 😉
i m tryin to build a box w the help of simon5 & quasi ( i thank them too muxh ) and the parameters they give me ...& u think i need a compressor ???... i built one bout a year befor ... it was ross compressor , u can find the schematics and pcb layouts on www.tonepad.com ..
i donno if u try it or not ,,, but it don satisfy me , maybe cuz i expect it too much ... what is exatcly a compressor will doin here .. ???
the subs may have problem w bass frequancies but does the compressor change the freq for them ? so they can handle it better ??? ( sorry maybe my question seems silly 😛 but i confused )
do u have any idea for compressor & specialy limiter barton ???
any idea will be sooooooooooooooooo welcome 😉
Not to butt into this thread, but....
Hey there are no butts here....
It's a good idea using the 4th order badpass for the extra low stuff Barton. It would need to be accurately built and very strong but I have run some 4th order and 6th order sims in WinISD for other speakers and have come up with some interesting concepts. It does depend on the quality of the woofer a fair bit, I guess any design does.
I did not think of a two way setup as you have. So if you're up to it Ahmad_tb you could run your sub in a 4th order box and then run another (different) speaker for the upper bass. This will provide more efficiency because you could tune each section seperately.
I'll run the sony woofer through WinISD as a 4th & 6th order and see what shows.
Cheers
PS. nice photo...you are a lot younger than me...🙁
Hey there are no butts here....
It's a good idea using the 4th order badpass for the extra low stuff Barton. It would need to be accurately built and very strong but I have run some 4th order and 6th order sims in WinISD for other speakers and have come up with some interesting concepts. It does depend on the quality of the woofer a fair bit, I guess any design does.
I did not think of a two way setup as you have. So if you're up to it Ahmad_tb you could run your sub in a 4th order box and then run another (different) speaker for the upper bass. This will provide more efficiency because you could tune each section seperately.
I'll run the sony woofer through WinISD as a 4th & 6th order and see what shows.
Cheers
PS. nice photo...you are a lot younger than me...🙁
hi quasi 🙂 ... welcome back 😉
wil u plz explain what do u mean a bit more ? 😛 .. ( sorry my english is very bad , i need to read ur mesages several times to understand what do u mean 😛 )
what is the 4th order & 6th order ? 😛
i donno if i get u , but i wanna do that , build a box for woofer & subs ,,, and seprate them inside ... i sent a dsign for that , & ill send a new one ,,, and use the subs for extra low freqs & woofer/tweeter for higher freqs
wil u plz explain what do u mean a bit more ? 😛 .. ( sorry my english is very bad , i need to read ur mesages several times to understand what do u mean 😛 )
4th order & 6th order
Hi Ahmad_tbp,
The 4th order box described by Barton is a speaker box designed two work only in a narrow band (section) of sound. Inside this band the sound can be louder than a normal speaker box but outside this band the sound volume dies quickly.
Bartons idea is to have a normal box for all of his bass notes plus a 4th order box to boost the very low bass notes. I think it is a good idea but I think you should do this job in two parts.
Build a normal box first and then get this to sound as good and as loud as you can. Once you are happy with this then build the 4th order box. This way you can gain the confidence with the simple box first and understand how speaker boxes work before you build the more difficult box.
To help you understand what a 4th order box looks like and the way the sound output looks I have created one in WinISD. The sound response is the curved line. Do not build the box shown, it can be improved.
Cheers
Hi Ahmad_tbp,
The 4th order box described by Barton is a speaker box designed two work only in a narrow band (section) of sound. Inside this band the sound can be louder than a normal speaker box but outside this band the sound volume dies quickly.
Bartons idea is to have a normal box for all of his bass notes plus a 4th order box to boost the very low bass notes. I think it is a good idea but I think you should do this job in two parts.
Build a normal box first and then get this to sound as good and as loud as you can. Once you are happy with this then build the 4th order box. This way you can gain the confidence with the simple box first and understand how speaker boxes work before you build the more difficult box.
To help you understand what a 4th order box looks like and the way the sound output looks I have created one in WinISD. The sound response is the curved line. Do not build the box shown, it can be improved.
Cheers
Attachments
wowww thnx a lot quasi 🙂 ...
at sure i ll build it one day , when i become rich enough 😛 ...
( this 4th order box looks like what i designed for first time in this thread .. yeah ??? )
so man ,, what do u think bout a box w seprated sections for subs and woofer/tweeter ??? is there any problem ?
and any idea for amp ???? i still donno what to do w amp :-< ...
at sure i ll build it one day , when i become rich enough 😛 ...
( this 4th order box looks like what i designed for first time in this thread .. yeah ??? )
so man ,, what do u think bout a box w seprated sections for subs and woofer/tweeter ??? is there any problem ?
and any idea for amp ???? i still donno what to do w amp :-< ...
It's different because with the 4th order box the woofer is inside the box (you can't see it from the outside). All the sound comes from the port only.
When I'm rich enough I'll build one too.....oh well one day.
Cheers
When I'm rich enough I'll build one too.....oh well one day.
Cheers
i measured the notes freqs of my bass ( w a tuner program )
my lowest string has bout 31 hz and my highest last note has bout 330 hz ...
when i turn the treble volume all the way up on my instrument , the sound that came out from my speakers is too high and sharp , but the freq doesn t change ... why ?? .. why the freq doesn t change but the sound become too treble and sharp ??? 😛 ...
is it better if i tune my subs box to respond 31 to 500( 500 hz cuz the tune of notes will change in diffrent songs )
and woofer/tweeter section for above 500 hz ??? .. should i use crossover now ?? . any idea for crossover ??? ( i wanna use seprate amps for subs and woofer/tweeter )
my lowest string has bout 31 hz and my highest last note has bout 330 hz ...
when i turn the treble volume all the way up on my instrument , the sound that came out from my speakers is too high and sharp , but the freq doesn t change ... why ?? .. why the freq doesn t change but the sound become too treble and sharp ??? 😛 ...
is it better if i tune my subs box to respond 31 to 500( 500 hz cuz the tune of notes will change in diffrent songs )
and woofer/tweeter section for above 500 hz ??? .. should i use crossover now ?? . any idea for crossover ??? ( i wanna use seprate amps for subs and woofer/tweeter )
well quasi ...i n my first design i wanted to sealed the rear panel too , but i dont show it in that pic , cuz i wanted to show the inner construct ...
Ahmad_tbp said:
Aah ok.
You could get a small 10" to 12" 150 watt PA speaker to take care of the 500hz and above plus a piezo horn tweeter for the rest. This speaker would not be very expensive (about the same as the subwoofer)
A 4th order box will not go to 500hz though so you will need something in between.
Cheers
am i goin to build a 4th order box ????
i have trouble findin transistor for sub amp .,,, not for woofer amp
and i almost forgot somethin u said i m younger than u so should i call u Mr. Quasi ? 😀
Your final drawing is nice, but I would add two pieces of wood in it, just to be sure! 😀
Two 9" x 24" braces, one between the rear panel and the center brace, the other between the center brace and the front panel, between the two woofers.
You need to leave a bit more wood between holes, to keep some strength, also don't place the bracing exactly in the center, put it off center, it's better to control box resonances. If there's the same distance between each panel and braces, then the box will resonate at that frequency. Since your box is not a perfect cube, it's less of a problem.
I'll show you an example here... you'll see that there's some bracing and that most braces are at a different distance from the other braces next to it. It's more important in this box, since it's a perfect cube.
Here you can consult the original plan to construct it to see the dimensions by yourself, it's the last design (EBS 142.5 liters) at the bottom of the PDF document:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/VentedShivaApplications.PDF
Two 9" x 24" braces, one between the rear panel and the center brace, the other between the center brace and the front panel, between the two woofers.
You need to leave a bit more wood between holes, to keep some strength, also don't place the bracing exactly in the center, put it off center, it's better to control box resonances. If there's the same distance between each panel and braces, then the box will resonate at that frequency. Since your box is not a perfect cube, it's less of a problem.
I'll show you an example here... you'll see that there's some bracing and that most braces are at a different distance from the other braces next to it. It's more important in this box, since it's a perfect cube.
Here you can consult the original plan to construct it to see the dimensions by yourself, it's the last design (EBS 142.5 liters) at the bottom of the PDF document:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/VentedShivaApplications.PDF
Attachments
hi simon 5 😉
i ll do somethin like that .. 😉 .. thnx a lot ...
and thnx for explainin polyfill ... but i never find it here 😉
i ll do somethin like that .. 😉 .. thnx a lot ...
and thnx for explainin polyfill ... but i never find it here 😉
hi aaaaaaaallll 😉
i m busy w amp 🙂 ... i think i find a way to build the leach super amp w mj15015/16 for my subs 😀
any idea ???
do u have any idea , for protectin circuit , and sub filter and of course crosswover ... ? any good pcb or schematic ?
i m awaitin ur ideas ... 😉
( i just removed my photo !!! , i have no idea why i put that there .. do u know ? lol 😛 )
i m busy w amp 🙂 ... i think i find a way to build the leach super amp w mj15015/16 for my subs 😀
any idea ???
do u have any idea , for protectin circuit , and sub filter and of course crosswover ... ? any good pcb or schematic ?
i m awaitin ur ideas ... 😉
( i just removed my photo !!! , i have no idea why i put that there .. do u know ? lol 😛 )
Ahmad-- the compressor/limiter is just to keep the signal from being too peaky (very loud/very soft). Pro sound reinforcement speakers with a good quality high-powered amp can handle strong low frequency notes (think of a bass drum). Since I have neither--great speakers or a great amp--not using a limiter would lead to horrible sound at the least or blown up equipment at the least. To address your question, for what you're trying to do, any halfway-decent compressor/limited ought to work fine.
If I may take the thread on a tangent for a moment -- Simon or Quasi, any ideas how to handle ringing in a bandpass box. I've lined the rear chamber and left the front unlined as per the directions, but it seems like the front chamber rings...
If I may take the thread on a tangent for a moment -- Simon or Quasi, any ideas how to handle ringing in a bandpass box. I've lined the rear chamber and left the front unlined as per the directions, but it seems like the front chamber rings...
hi burton
i have a compressor , but i cant find any pcb or schematic for limiter 🙁 ...
any idea for limiter ???
( i m tryin to build amp )
i have a compressor , but i cant find any pcb or schematic for limiter 🙁 ...
any idea for limiter ???
( i m tryin to build amp
)
Ringing?
Hi Barton,
I would have thought that the front chamber i.e. the ported chamber in a 4th order box would have behaved similarly to a normal bass refelex box. These are normally lined quite heavily with sound deadener. If you've got an old woolly jumber stick that in there and see what it does. Try an leave the port entry clear.
Are the panels in the front chamber braced? The front panel could be vibrating so a wide panel to panel brace may help, but try the woolly jumper first.
Cheers
Hi Barton,
I would have thought that the front chamber i.e. the ported chamber in a 4th order box would have behaved similarly to a normal bass refelex box. These are normally lined quite heavily with sound deadener. If you've got an old woolly jumber stick that in there and see what it does. Try an leave the port entry clear.
Are the panels in the front chamber braced? The front panel could be vibrating so a wide panel to panel brace may help, but try the woolly jumper first.
Cheers
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