Egad, Where To Begin?
The Protestant Reformation started not in America, but Europe. Germany, Martin Luther, and all that. There are plenty of Protestant Europeans.
America is about 25% Catholic. Your own state of Texas is about 21% Catholic. The two largest ethnic heritages in the US are German-largely Catholic-and Irish, which is very highly Catholic, (although I was not raised Catholic).
If you ever plan to run for office, try saying some of this stuff during your campaign, and find out what happens to you on Election Day.
Catholics as religious fanatics. Whatever happened to tolerance?
I really thought the election of John F. Kennedy in 1960 pretty much put all this nonsense to rest, when Billy Graham and Norman Vincent Peale were hammering away against the idea of a Catholic president. At a news conference in Houston, Kennedy set forth his ideas on his religion and the office, where he told the audience that if it ever happened that there was a conflict between his religion and his office as President, his office of President of the United States takes supremacy.
Essentially, that stopped the whole Catholic-cannot-be-president movement in it's tracks, with Peale offering his resignation the next day, (not accepted), and Graham simply refusing to talk on the subject.
Yet here we are, forty four years down the line, and we are running into the same attitudes. Very, very sad.
I really thought we had this all worked out. A person's religion is his own business. You go to your church, I'll go to mine. I won't force my religion on you if you won't force your religion on me. Yet we can still live in the same town, work at the same job, and be friends together.
For some people, I guess not.
kingdaddy said:
The Protestant Reformation started not in America, but Europe. Germany, Martin Luther, and all that. There are plenty of Protestant Europeans.
kingdaddy said:
America is about 25% Catholic. Your own state of Texas is about 21% Catholic. The two largest ethnic heritages in the US are German-largely Catholic-and Irish, which is very highly Catholic, (although I was not raised Catholic).
If you ever plan to run for office, try saying some of this stuff during your campaign, and find out what happens to you on Election Day.
kingdaddy said:
Catholics as religious fanatics. Whatever happened to tolerance?
I really thought the election of John F. Kennedy in 1960 pretty much put all this nonsense to rest, when Billy Graham and Norman Vincent Peale were hammering away against the idea of a Catholic president. At a news conference in Houston, Kennedy set forth his ideas on his religion and the office, where he told the audience that if it ever happened that there was a conflict between his religion and his office as President, his office of President of the United States takes supremacy.
Essentially, that stopped the whole Catholic-cannot-be-president movement in it's tracks, with Peale offering his resignation the next day, (not accepted), and Graham simply refusing to talk on the subject.
Yet here we are, forty four years down the line, and we are running into the same attitudes. Very, very sad.
I really thought we had this all worked out. A person's religion is his own business. You go to your church, I'll go to mine. I won't force my religion on you if you won't force your religion on me. Yet we can still live in the same town, work at the same job, and be friends together.
For some people, I guess not.
kingdaddy said:
Well you've bought the Father and Son line, so the Holy Ghost can't be too far off.
Frankly, any some form of moral framework that needs to be propped by religious scafolding isn't worth having. Morals, for the want of a better word, should come from within. It should not be the fear of some unspecified punishment dished out by some unspecified deity somewhere down the line that stops me sticking my annoying neighbour into a meat grinder. It should be reason, empathy or just plain pragmatism.
Religion, OTOH, pushes against reason. Anything can be justified simply by saying " God told me to do it".
kingdaddy said:
The world is far more likely to be in trouble because of the need of certain strands of the US to have a bogeyman to rail against. Soon all the Bin Laden nonsense will be seen for the scam it is and you will need to caste around for a new bogeyman. Choose wisely.
Your postings do not look like you are using any spell checker.
it would be an explanation why you hate this life.
I propose an doctor, may help better than religion.
a good exorcist may help you also, to get rid of all those mad spectres in your head.
till said:
I don’t hate this life at all, but I do believe that there is more pain then not. I also happen to believe that there is a purpose to life in this body, without a God and without an after-life I can't imagine any purpose or reason for Love.
Do animals feel Love?
jeff mai said:
If said person could make it past Me, My dog(s), and somehow made it through well enough to be able to take all of Us hostage, then I would say, if given the chance, Kill Us all. Better to take him down, at the cost of Our lives, than for him to kill even more..later.
As a matter of fact, I do live very near the US/Canada border. Both sides of My family are from Canada. And having said this, My answer still holds true. Sometimes the "Greater Good" is only served by the "Greater loss" of the common man.
Funny, you can have an argument with Me without My even having to be here! You >ASSUME<(We all know that this is foolish!) that you know My answers, before I've even seen the question(s). And because of this, base your arguments on those >false< assumptions.
What I'm saying is that if fighting these Dogs has to take place somewhere, I would rather it take place in their country, rather than Mine.
If there is someone doing the things these people did/do in My country, I would want them found and hunted down, just like they are being over there. You reap what you sew. If the people there wouldn't harbor these kinds of people, then there wouldn't have been so many there.
I have read the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, The federalist papers, and all of the other important documents of My country. It is a document talking about the freedoms of All Men. It, along with Our Constitution, also state the Unalienable right for self defense. I plan on asserting those rights.
Tall Shadow
Many people in the US still do not know that Iraq didn't have a link to the al-Qaeda terrorists before or after the 9/II attack:
No ‘collaborative relationship’ seen
It said that reports of subsequent contacts between Iraq and al-Qaida after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan “do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship,” and added that two unidentified senior bin Laden associates "have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al-Qaida and Iraq."
The report, the 15th released by the commission staff, concluded, “We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al-Qaida cooperated on attacks against the United States.”
No ‘collaborative relationship’ seen
It said that reports of subsequent contacts between Iraq and al-Qaida after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan “do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship,” and added that two unidentified senior bin Laden associates "have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al-Qaida and Iraq."
The report, the 15th released by the commission staff, concluded, “We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al-Qaida cooperated on attacks against the United States.”
Get your mess together, man...kingdaddy said:
Why wouldn't they? Not all, but some/many?
No offence but your attitude is kinda strange regarding the animals.
roibm said:
It was a question not a statement, just wanted to see how some believe to get a better idea of what lines ( if any) some of you draw between humans and other mammals. So I guess you don’t think we are any different then an animal, which is fine for you. But what if we were to act like animals, are there not so called moral laws to prevent this. In nature, weakness is quickly and harshly dealt with, sometimes by the offspring’s parents, is this OK? If you had a sickly child would you kill it?
Do our moral laws apply to all mammals?
Of coarse I don’t believe they do, I believe there is a fundamental difference between humans and animals. Animals act on instinct and learned habits, humans have the ability to override this strong urge and choose otherwise, and Love is a big motivation in this choice, but I guess that’s messed up in your opinion
Is this an example
http://www.spiegel.de/video/0,4916,6186,00.html
for your moral laws, that prevent amoralic acting?
Till:
Sorry, don’t read German, BTW there not my moral laws. Do you or do you not believe there are moral differences between humans and animals. Is this to difficult for you to answer, are you that confused about your beliefs?
Put your hate away for just a minute and try to discuss like a logical functional human being, just because I’m American doesn’t mean all your responses have to be so venomous. I know,...... try to think of me as Martian, this should make it easer to remove your brain from hate/attack mode.
Respect given is respect earned..
Sorry, don’t read German, BTW there not my moral laws. Do you or do you not believe there are moral differences between humans and animals. Is this to difficult for you to answer, are you that confused about your beliefs?
Put your hate away for just a minute and try to discuss like a logical functional human being, just because I’m American doesn’t mean all your responses have to be so venomous. I know,...... try to think of me as Martian, this should make it easer to remove your brain from hate/attack mode.
Respect given is respect earned..
Based on what was discussed you show up a lot of boldness.kingdaddy said:
Well, you don't need to read german. The text just describes what happens in the video. Of course it is not to your liking so you come here with a lame excuse. Nice try.kingdaddy said:
As about those morals, I see you brag about it quite a lot. What are you willing to say, that your morals are the highest in the world??? 😕 I mean I knew everything is relative, but that much(see the crowded jails, the highest criminality in the so called western countries, your society, your boldness)?
Just as a side note, I always found your official prudishness(see the male swimsuit for instance) funny since one can get a date in bed really fast over there. It's the way you are, two faces most of the time. So, how is that going to improve your morality?
Still on the morality line, I consider myself a moral person, but my morality doesn't come from my religion, it comes from the way I am and the way I live my life. I consider immoral to use some 500W+ class A amps just because they sound a bit better when I can use an amp that draws 20W @ idle, not to speak about the chip amps. I consider immoral to spend a lot of money for luxury while not helping others when that many people are suffering. I consider immoral driving huge cars when I don't need them. I consider immoral those who don't give a sh!t about this world acting like there's another one in their pocket. I consider immoral starting a war without a reason, based on lies. I consider immoral what's going on in most slaughter houses. I consider immoral eye for an eye kind of acting. Those are just a few in no particular order. Let's hear what you consider immoral...
PS: I also consider immoral the fact that a country with 5% of the world population needs 25% of it's resources.
Edit:
Still morality...
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I think there are moral differences between humans and animals, but not for good for the humans.
Animals tend not to act from lower motivations like hate, greedy acquisitiveness, religios fanatism, ...
I don´t say the animal is incarantion of the good, and human beeing of the bad.
The amimals behaivior is calibrated to be social compatible by the evolutionary process. Systems that tend to destroy themshelf will not last for long in this evolutionary process. Animals that behave against some fundamental laws, will destroy their own base of existence.
Humans took over controll of their own existence, and decoupled from evolution. Not only for good. They produce many systems that tend to destroy itself, capitalsim is one. They have to do descisions to behave the right way (moral) by concesness, as evolution doesn´t do the job for them anymore. Unfortunalely humans tend to be very lazy. For this reason they tend to shut down their conscesness and want others to do the descisions (moral) for them. Those others are religions, ideologies like capitalistic logic, communism, ... and what kind of imperfect model how thinks should be but are not else.
So with help of those brain prosthesises like religion humans substitute to make the right (moral) descisions by them self. Instead they take role modells for them self, one you can see in that video linked above: the warrior in mandate of his God, killing the bad arabs. Feeling doing the right (moral) thing, by shooting down an injured unarmed man - but obviosly acting amoral. You should not kill.
This is the big flaw about brain crutches like religion. All that mess makes people acting less moral than an animal.
And now, tell me, did you follow my advice in posting #136?
How can you expect to
Animals tend not to act from lower motivations like hate, greedy acquisitiveness, religios fanatism, ...
I don´t say the animal is incarantion of the good, and human beeing of the bad.
The amimals behaivior is calibrated to be social compatible by the evolutionary process. Systems that tend to destroy themshelf will not last for long in this evolutionary process. Animals that behave against some fundamental laws, will destroy their own base of existence.
Humans took over controll of their own existence, and decoupled from evolution. Not only for good. They produce many systems that tend to destroy itself, capitalsim is one. They have to do descisions to behave the right way (moral) by concesness, as evolution doesn´t do the job for them anymore. Unfortunalely humans tend to be very lazy. For this reason they tend to shut down their conscesness and want others to do the descisions (moral) for them. Those others are religions, ideologies like capitalistic logic, communism, ... and what kind of imperfect model how thinks should be but are not else.
So with help of those brain prosthesises like religion humans substitute to make the right (moral) descisions by them self. Instead they take role modells for them self, one you can see in that video linked above: the warrior in mandate of his God, killing the bad arabs. Feeling doing the right (moral) thing, by shooting down an injured unarmed man - but obviosly acting amoral. You should not kill.
This is the big flaw about brain crutches like religion. All that mess makes people acting less moral than an animal.
And now, tell me, did you follow my advice in posting #136?
How can you expect to
with me, without reading some enlightenment philosophie? You are no logical functional human beeing, you are a poor slave of an abused religion.
roibm said:
Wow, did you say I was bragging?
You are a very silly man, you make me laugh!
Really, I nearly soiled my self; you actually think your moral because of your works.
The jokes on you, if there is a God.
Are you and Till the same person? seriously.
Hey man, you got it all wrong.kingdaddy said:
I did not say anything about God. Actually I believe in Supreme Beings, whatever Those Supreme Beings would be. Do I believe in the God pictured by my religion(orthodox)? Yes and no, there are things I agree with, there are some others I don't. Do I believe in Jesus? I do believe there was a Being called Jesus and I respect what He did for us, the silly.
Can it be that the entire Bible report true stories? Yes. I do believe in some, and It teaches good things, but I can't follow them all(can you?). Can it be that the Beings(including the negative ones) described in the Bible are all aliens(like et or ed entity)? I'd say yes. Would this change the things? Not much. We are still the silly.
Still, my morals don't come from my religion, they come from within me. I don't need the religion to be moral, sorry if I dissapointed you. If you believe your morals come from your religion, let me say you are weak. Those religious morals have caused to much victims all around the world for a very long time now. You know, there is at least a religion teaching an eye for an eye, should I consider that moral? Should I consider what the Koran says completely moral? Uhh, I bet not.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
till said:
Like the Passenger Pigeon , and dodo bird? So without religion there would be no evil? Moral values come from within?
There seems to more then a few holes in your beliefs IMO. I see evidence in everyday life to contradict every statement you have made about Morals.
Maybe we should just let it alone, obviously we have much different beliefs, and neither will give them up so easily.
I can respect your beliefs if you can respect mine.
This is no question of trade.
I can life without the respect from some missleaded warmongers.
And i don´t respect, i condemn as something very amoralic to support war criminals, breakers of law of nations, liers, mass murderers, like your goverment is.
Looks like you do english(read the text then watch the video. videoclip is not entiresly safe, be advised):kingdaddy said:
http://www.ogrish.com/a/us_marine_fatally_shoots_wounded_pow_in_fallujah_mosque-11-16-2004.html
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