The 10F driver is at the upper end of the midrange driver budget... Let's say $130 USD for a midrange would be the limit.
Yeah or the 5 inch.
There are really some hidden gems in their assortiment.
On par with SB NBAC.
I have to dive into the measurements again if you're interested 🙂
There are really some hidden gems in their assortiment.
On par with SB NBAC.
I have to dive into the measurements again if you're interested 🙂
Scan D7608 or another 3" dome, just to mention something different?
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-dome-midrange-thread.407105/
I don't know many dome mid-range drivers that go below 400-600Hz.
Which creates another compromise with port plus cabinet resonances.
Damn law of conservation of misery....
I have seen people using a nice 3inch or so on a waveguide.
But that is a lot more fiddling around.
Which creates another compromise with port plus cabinet resonances.
Damn law of conservation of misery....
I have seen people using a nice 3inch or so on a waveguide.
But that is a lot more fiddling around.
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I fail to see real advantage with dome mid 3-ways, .
With the exception of ATC 75 or alike, but they cost hundreds https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...52-without-ferrofluid-overview-wanted.206776/
https://studio-hifi.com/images/ATC75-150S_JeffBagby.pdf
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATC-SM75-150.htm
Accuton ring magnet domes are disappointing and so are Bliesmas https://hificompass.com/en
With the exception of ATC 75 or alike, but they cost hundreds https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...52-without-ferrofluid-overview-wanted.206776/
https://studio-hifi.com/images/ATC75-150S_JeffBagby.pdf
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATC-SM75-150.htm
Accuton ring magnet domes are disappointing and so are Bliesmas https://hificompass.com/en
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These mids don't seem to have the problem of cone edge resonance. I worked with the MCA15 like the MW13P, MU10RB they exhibit this problem.
I have some suggestions, just to have more choices 😉 :
- The SICA 5.5H1.5CP a very good driver to my ears, for the price its is a bargain. https://sica.it/prodotto/5-5-h-1-5-cp/
- Markaudio ALPAIR 7ms or better the more neutral MAOP 7 These fullrange have very good midrange, a true good surprise.
- I saw this one Wom145_vHE https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-wom120-vms-2 A little expensive but not sure if better than a SB15CRC
- Note the 830656 is a 20$ driver but for the price nothing to add, it was for years my favorite midrange driver.
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The Dayton RS52AN isn't bad, and there are a couple of other brands/types.
There is nothing against them, you just have to pay more intention to other things.
Even if things weren't disappointing, for that much money I would highly suggest changing the design anyway.
Unless a classic 3-way system is just subjectively really your thing.
There is also nothing wrong with that, but they have their limitations.
Again, it al depends on the goals someone wants to achieve.
For a system like this one, I am in agreement with @Juhazi.
At the price range I am working in, there are no dome mids that impress me.
The expensive dome mids (Volt and Bliesma for example) have a clear advantage in terms of sensitivity and maximum SPL capability, but these capabilities would be under-utilized in a modest size 8” 3 way.
Some day I expect to build a system using the Bliesma M74A, but that will be a much larger, and very much more expensive 4-way project.
At the price range I am working in, there are no dome mids that impress me.
The expensive dome mids (Volt and Bliesma for example) have a clear advantage in terms of sensitivity and maximum SPL capability, but these capabilities would be under-utilized in a modest size 8” 3 way.
This too... It is a significant limitation of all these dome mids.
Some day I expect to build a system using the Bliesma M74A, but that will be a much larger, and very much more expensive 4-way project.
Well..... that depends lol
Instead of going for a classic 3-way system, use a double woofer/single woofer with more xmax in a active system in a smaller closed cabinet and you won't run into these issues.
Pretty cool, if you do that well, you can make a system that needs zero damping material! 😎
(copyright and trademarked, lol 😀 )
Or be less picky, almost every 3-way system in the 80s and 90s had a dome midrange crossed around 800-1000Hz
People seem to be very happy with those systems! 😉 😀
Choices 😉
I’m aware you’ve used the RS270 in an active 3 way. Why not follow this up with a passive vented version with the RS225? Also come in 8 and 4 ohm variants.
In this test 10” woofer comparison the RS270 came second, arguably, to the 10” Revelator
The 8” RS225 is only second to the 8” Revelator based on measurements that I’ve seen. And the 8” Revelator was only recently pipped by the Purifi PTT8.0X…
In this test 10” woofer comparison the RS270 came second, arguably, to the 10” Revelator
The 8” RS225 is only second to the 8” Revelator based on measurements that I’ve seen. And the 8” Revelator was only recently pipped by the Purifi PTT8.0X…
That ripple you are getting above 10KHz I'm certain will be mic mounting related. It was with my setup until pointed out. Can you put your mic in a long horizontal boom (e.g. inside some PVC pipe?) and make it long enough so that the stand is outside your gating window?
to demonstrate - here is a SB26ADC in a visaton WG148R waveguide in a trapezoid baffle with chamfers. The red is clip / mic stand in the measurement window. Blue is on a long PVC pole. That was the only change between red / blue measurements (apart from some slight off axis degree variation due to my shonky setup).
to demonstrate - here is a SB26ADC in a visaton WG148R waveguide in a trapezoid baffle with chamfers. The red is clip / mic stand in the measurement window. Blue is on a long PVC pole. That was the only change between red / blue measurements (apart from some slight off axis degree variation due to my shonky setup).
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Woohoo, hifijim has new thread, time to follow... 🙂
In the light of discussion, all SS 4424goo discoveries are amazing units, especially the ruler flat frequency response. 10F or 15W would be nice dedicated midranges to fill in between 6+1 or 8+1 inch constructions which always have directivity problems....It would be possible to do 3 or 4 way wide dispersion speaker with tweeter moved much more to the right (3 4 5 kHz) and lower crossover slopes.
In the light of discussion, all SS 4424goo discoveries are amazing units, especially the ruler flat frequency response. 10F or 15W would be nice dedicated midranges to fill in between 6+1 or 8+1 inch constructions which always have directivity problems....It would be possible to do 3 or 4 way wide dispersion speaker with tweeter moved much more to the right (3 4 5 kHz) and lower crossover slopes.
Some time ago I built 3 Way speakers on Sba 23 NBAC, 15 NBAC and HDS Tweeter. The project was created for a very long time, which allowed me to audition literally dozens of different filters, starting with 1st order filters and ending with LR8. On top of that, of course, I tested different speaker cutoff frequencies. Thanks to active filtering, I was able to do this quite quickly, and also just switching between filters was done in a fraction of a second. Each option played slightly differently, sometimes the differences were small and sometimes very large, nevertheless it was always possible to pick up the sound characteristics of the drivers used in the design. Unfortunately, not always what looked good in the simulation played correctly for me. Everyone has a slightly different picture of the ideal sound, and for me in particular the sound of the midrange was important. I wanted the midrange to be well saturated, vocals to have the right weight, and size. For the sound not to hide behind the speakers, but to be well radiated into the room.
After all the testing, I ended up with a fairly simple filtering.
The 15 NBAC on the midrange worked well, but somehow it didn't get me out of my shoes. If I were to do the same project a second time, I would choose the 15 CRC.
After all the testing, I ended up with a fairly simple filtering.
The 15 NBAC on the midrange worked well, but somehow it didn't get me out of my shoes. If I were to do the same project a second time, I would choose the 15 CRC.
Attachments
Well, the main reason is that I wanted to do a project with the new Sig225 woofer. My last project was an exercise in optimizing performance/cost ratio. For this project I mandated that I would use the Dayton Sig225 and the SB26STWGC, in a reflex enclosure, using a passive crossover. The only driver which needs to be selected at this point is the midrange.
The measurement was made with the mic in a 48" long PVC tube.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/purifi-waveguide-project.394174/post-7390062
I have made measurements of other tweeters in other cabinets with much less ripple.
I think the high frequency diffraction ripple you see in post #6 is coming from the cabinet edge. It is only a 20 mm bevel, so it will have some diffraction effect.
Thanks for all the comments.
Here is some more data from vetting the tweeter. At this point I am completely satisfied with the performance of the SB26STWGC driver, and I will be using it.
All of these measurements were made in the XPS foam prototype shown in post #6. The distortion measurements were made at an SPL of 94 dB at 1 meter, but the mic was at 50 cm to get the best SNR. I added a dashed white line at -60 dB and 0.1%. Thanks to the work of @tktran303, I believe this is the limit of resolution for my test setup, both due to the noise floor and the inherent limitations of my microphone (Audix TM1).
The burst decay plot was produced from my 0-degree polar response scans: 1 meter, at about 1 Vrms which produced about 85 dB SPL.
All of these measurements were made in the XPS foam prototype shown in post #6. The distortion measurements were made at an SPL of 94 dB at 1 meter, but the mic was at 50 cm to get the best SNR. I added a dashed white line at -60 dB and 0.1%. Thanks to the work of @tktran303, I believe this is the limit of resolution for my test setup, both due to the noise floor and the inherent limitations of my microphone (Audix TM1).
The burst decay plot was produced from my 0-degree polar response scans: 1 meter, at about 1 Vrms which produced about 85 dB SPL.
I believe I have some 3rd party measurements as well.
If you're interested, I can dig it up for you! 🙂
If you're interested, I can dig it up for you! 🙂
I’m confused why do you think the 142 bliesmas are disappointing. I pumped 400 watts into mine and got 124db 200hz up with a few percent of thd to show for it. Also the fix blisema gives isn’t even good. A little box stuffed with foam is much better.