Hey all, Don't build it like this or you will hurt yourself. It is incorrectly drawn. I asked moderator to delete but they said just to flag it like this.....
DO NOT BUILD LIKE THIS. The original japanese circuit is good. I am just trying to draw in the modifications I am making to it, but don't yet understand how tube schematics work.
Thanks.
I'm not seeing what will cause the explosion, unless they're referring to the negative power supply rail? (That should just be marked "0V").
My only other advice is that you likely won't need a 200V secondary on that transformer. 200 * 1.44 - 22 = 268 V. That formula is just a rough guess at the voltage you'd have coming out of the 6X4. If you want ~160V for the 5687, you'll have to drop ~100V. That's way more than you want to deal with, as you will just have to burn all that voltage off as heat for no purpose whatsoever.
My only other advice is that you likely won't need a 200V secondary on that transformer. 200 * 1.44 - 22 = 268 V. That formula is just a rough guess at the voltage you'd have coming out of the 6X4. If you want ~160V for the 5687, you'll have to drop ~100V. That's way more than you want to deal with, as you will just have to burn all that voltage off as heat for no purpose whatsoever.
@Thekak re your first comment, I believe yes this is the big error. i should have joined at centre tap and indicated zero on the bottom rail instead of minus B.
Re second comment, I think that is the "choke input filter" that will go onto the PS to reduce that voltage as it's more than needed. I am still working on how that black magic works. As I understand it there will be a resistor across a lundahl LL2743 choke configured as a choke input to reduce that voltage and current.
Does that make sense to you? I'm about to draw it out from what I understand the parts I will have soon will be wired.
Re second comment, I think that is the "choke input filter" that will go onto the PS to reduce that voltage as it's more than needed. I am still working on how that black magic works. As I understand it there will be a resistor across a lundahl LL2743 choke configured as a choke input to reduce that voltage and current.
Does that make sense to you? I'm about to draw it out from what I understand the parts I will have soon will be wired.
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Choke input gives 0.9 x Vac, so 200Vac becomes 180Vdc less the rectifier drop and RC filter and voila, 160V.
Details of Kenwood (aka Trio) power supply transformer as I know it:
Trio ( kenwood) Japanese integrated tube amp
I think there is a 5 vac secondary as well that I will try to use for the lamp meters.
Trio ( kenwood) Japanese integrated tube amp
- a 110 volt transformer which will work at 120 volt too
- secondary voltages 230-210-0-210-230
- 150 mA
I think there is a 5 vac secondary as well that I will try to use for the lamp meters.
That transformer should work fine. You have enough B+ to use a regulator. The heater winding is probably 6.3 VAC. Your voltages will be a bit high at 120 VAC, and I have measured over 125 VAC at times from our mains.
See if a program called PSUD is still available, it's good for figuring things out and "what-ifs".
See if a program called PSUD is still available, it's good for figuring things out and "what-ifs".
That all makes sense. I've never tried a choke input power supply but have always wanted to. The resistor across the choke ensures minimum current draw for the choke at all times. I believe the term is "critical inductance." The resistor is there to provide a load so that the LC circuit always stays in regulation.
Bigun and anatach had good comments as well.
Yes. My mentor who designed the PS used psud to figure out that the Trio would work for the circuit!
Yes. My heater windings are here from mouser....LP12-450 for the 6x5 rectifier tube and LP12-900 for the 5687 signal tube.
The resistor isn't "across the choke" but after the choke to ground. I think that's what you meant.
Hello,
The link you provided uses Sic Safco paper in oil capacitors too.
That French man uses Tango too.
How much cheaper will the Hashimoto be for a pair 100$
Which Lundahl reference would you recommend for a 5Kohm primary and a symmetrical output to '' drive '' a 10Kohm XLR input?
Greetings, eduard
You can do whatever you want. The owner of that blog is a master craftsman. I'm nowhere near his level, nor do I have measuring equipment or the speakers that he does. I caution in general against fetishizing any individual component because I wasted a lot of time and money doing so myself. Personally I think using huge capacitors is silly but to each their own.
For example, I switched from Edcor to Hashimoto output transformers on a 2A3 amplifier and the difference was so subtle that I could not even tell. And that was after reading a lot of posts on the internet claiming that it would be a night and day difference. Now I just go for decent quality components and enjoy the music.
I think Tango has become significantly more expensive recently since they changed their name to ISO Tango and restructured. I believe you can see pricing at acoustic-dimension.com. a quick glance at pricing sheets shows that yes, Hashimoto may be 100s of dollars cheaper.
I have no experience with Lundahl and can't make a recommendation. My personal experience is Edcor and Hashimoto.
You may get better results by spending more money, but in this hobby you are just as likely to be overpaying for the same or worse quality.
I think it is wiser to avoid buying expensive components as one gains experience and instead spend the money pursuing multiple different topologies/approaches.
For example, I switched from Edcor to Hashimoto output transformers on a 2A3 amplifier and the difference was so subtle that I could not even tell. And that was after reading a lot of posts on the internet claiming that it would be a night and day difference. Now I just go for decent quality components and enjoy the music.
I think Tango has become significantly more expensive recently since they changed their name to ISO Tango and restructured. I believe you can see pricing at acoustic-dimension.com. a quick glance at pricing sheets shows that yes, Hashimoto may be 100s of dollars cheaper.
I have no experience with Lundahl and can't make a recommendation. My personal experience is Edcor and Hashimoto.
You may get better results by spending more money, but in this hobby you are just as likely to be overpaying for the same or worse quality.
I think it is wiser to avoid buying expensive components as one gains experience and instead spend the money pursuing multiple different topologies/approaches.
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Hello,
I just checked Hashimoto is about 10 Euros higher in price than the Tango for one piece bought at the same shop.
Ordering process will probably take identical time because European dealers wont have them in stock i guess.
Hashimoto available on Ebay in a online Japanese non audiophile shop.
I REALLY dont know which one would be the best Hashimoto or Tango.
IF there is no difference we should buy the Tango because it is cheaper.
That master craftsman in France helped me with designing the power supply of my single ended power amp
I just checked Hashimoto is about 10 Euros higher in price than the Tango for one piece bought at the same shop.
Ordering process will probably take identical time because European dealers wont have them in stock i guess.
Hashimoto available on Ebay in a online Japanese non audiophile shop.
I REALLY dont know which one would be the best Hashimoto or Tango.
IF there is no difference we should buy the Tango because it is cheaper.
That master craftsman in France helped me with designing the power supply of my single ended power amp
I think those Hashimoto transformers on eBay are actually sold by Hashimoto or someone affiliated with them. That is just a guess based on my experience buying Hashimoto in person in Japan. The shop I purchased from makes direct orders to Hashimoto on the behalf of customers. They would not sell them to me unless I could provide a shipping address in Japan, even though I had already explained I did not live there. Luckily I could provide my wife's family's address.
This is not uncommon in my experience. It can be difficult to order Japanese goods from outside the country and without speaking Japanese.
I think either Hashimoto or Tango will sound great.
Your anxiety about which you should order is exactly what I am saying prevents so many hobbyists from "just enjoying the music."
Order both and compare?
This is not uncommon in my experience. It can be difficult to order Japanese goods from outside the country and without speaking Japanese.
I think either Hashimoto or Tango will sound great.
Your anxiety about which you should order is exactly what I am saying prevents so many hobbyists from "just enjoying the music."
Order both and compare?
Wow. This is great conversation all….
The output transformers (and input if I use them) are really my only significant cost on the project as I am sourcing everything really cheaply used from someone who has graciously introduced me to this cool tube preamp world. So to spent $500 on them to me is a good investment. I also only use XLR connections. And I want the best.
I’m too much of a newbie too fetishize 😎
I also like the look of old components and got the sigs used at a good price.
The output transformers (and input if I use them) are really my only significant cost on the project as I am sourcing everything really cheaply used from someone who has graciously introduced me to this cool tube preamp world. So to spent $500 on them to me is a good investment. I also only use XLR connections. And I want the best.
I’m too much of a newbie too fetishize 😎
I also like the look of old components and got the sigs used at a good price.
Hello,
I can get the Hashimoto on Ebay with free shipping to the Netherlands not sure if they will give free shipping to Canada too but why not?
My first order in Japan was before i was active on the internet and order were placed with a fax machine and payments made by international money order.
I must have ordered about 20 Tango items, Black gates caps, Ikeda mc transformer and small smaller stuff
I just asked Iso company in Japan if they can send a pair to Canada and how to pay them.
So we will see.
Greetings, eduard
I can get the Hashimoto on Ebay with free shipping to the Netherlands not sure if they will give free shipping to Canada too but why not?
My first order in Japan was before i was active on the internet and order were placed with a fax machine and payments made by international money order.
I must have ordered about 20 Tango items, Black gates caps, Ikeda mc transformer and small smaller stuff
I just asked Iso company in Japan if they can send a pair to Canada and how to pay them.
So we will see.
Greetings, eduard
Hi fusion360guy,
XLR connections are used for balanced lines, that's the standard. A balanced line is only useful if you have long distances, noisy environments and are also running the line at low impedance. Inside, most all equipment is single ended. By the way, a balanced product will be 1.414 times noisier than the exact same circuit in single ended. That means you would need balanced adapters. They either add noise and distortion, or distortion in the case of matching transformers.
So I have to ask, what is your actual goal? If you're going to blindly follow the suggestions of the person you are talking to directly, this thread is a total waste of everyone's time. Or, are you going to look into (ie: research) the various suggestions and information brought up? That way you'll learn something. Some people here are extremely experienced in the industry. Of course some simply repeat what they have heard elsewhere.
Learning takes decades to really know. It's experience, classical training and learning how to sort out the noise from factual information. The same goes for reading on the internet. What you'll finally realise is that "the best" is the best for each different situation. Same for components and circuit design. It's actually pretty mundane and follows engineering principles. Get it right and everything agrees and you'll love it.
-Chris
Why? I am confused here. The connection on an XLR is no better than a good RCA, and a good BNC is better yet. SMA or SMB can do better, and we have "N" connectors if we want something that looks really cool. There are others of course.
XLR connections are used for balanced lines, that's the standard. A balanced line is only useful if you have long distances, noisy environments and are also running the line at low impedance. Inside, most all equipment is single ended. By the way, a balanced product will be 1.414 times noisier than the exact same circuit in single ended. That means you would need balanced adapters. They either add noise and distortion, or distortion in the case of matching transformers.
So I have to ask, what is your actual goal? If you're going to blindly follow the suggestions of the person you are talking to directly, this thread is a total waste of everyone's time. Or, are you going to look into (ie: research) the various suggestions and information brought up? That way you'll learn something. Some people here are extremely experienced in the industry. Of course some simply repeat what they have heard elsewhere.
Actually, you've started to already.
Learning takes decades to really know. It's experience, classical training and learning how to sort out the noise from factual information. The same goes for reading on the internet. What you'll finally realise is that "the best" is the best for each different situation. Same for components and circuit design. It's actually pretty mundane and follows engineering principles. Get it right and everything agrees and you'll love it.
-Chris