The last Flex 8 channell from MINIDSP is attracting at seing the manual as one or two multichannel dac as well (OKTO DAC, etc)
If managing the EQ and filter cut-offs in a mini computer, it is ok I assume. At worst, it is certainly super tools to go faster before to try to convert the transfer function with an analog passive filter to try !
But some pro units are attractive too. Lab Grupen, and alikes ?
The Flex 8 from Minidsp seems straigth forward though because the embeded softs as well as Hypex plate amps products. But with active multi amps if the mid and tweeters needs a protection cap in front of the amp, it should be heard whatever it is mkp or magic copper from the moon, no ? OT and caps have weird behaviors and are expensive....
More on topic, I purchased the Peereless NE149W from an advice from @profiguy , but took two per channel for a MMT or MTM layout in order to follow the sensivity of the Faital 12PR320 I purchased following @mbrennwa thread(s). I looking for my tweeter still, I certainly take one of this 4 :
Morel cat 378 ; TW29RN ; Wavecore 30wa10 or 12 (a cat378 sorta) ; or a metal dome. If my budget was greater I'd have chosen the Blisma 34 aluminium. Choice being dictated by a 1800 to 2000 hz predicted cutoff and minimum 91 dB/2.8V sensivity. But family member's health problem stopped the project to make the cabinet this summer
If managing the EQ and filter cut-offs in a mini computer, it is ok I assume. At worst, it is certainly super tools to go faster before to try to convert the transfer function with an analog passive filter to try !
But some pro units are attractive too. Lab Grupen, and alikes ?
The Flex 8 from Minidsp seems straigth forward though because the embeded softs as well as Hypex plate amps products. But with active multi amps if the mid and tweeters needs a protection cap in front of the amp, it should be heard whatever it is mkp or magic copper from the moon, no ? OT and caps have weird behaviors and are expensive....
More on topic, I purchased the Peereless NE149W from an advice from @profiguy , but took two per channel for a MMT or MTM layout in order to follow the sensivity of the Faital 12PR320 I purchased following @mbrennwa thread(s). I looking for my tweeter still, I certainly take one of this 4 :
Morel cat 378 ; TW29RN ; Wavecore 30wa10 or 12 (a cat378 sorta) ; or a metal dome. If my budget was greater I'd have chosen the Blisma 34 aluminium. Choice being dictated by a 1800 to 2000 hz predicted cutoff and minimum 91 dB/2.8V sensivity. But family member's health problem stopped the project to make the cabinet this summer
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LabGruppen bought Dolby, so basically you have access to a Lake ( contour(xover)/mesa (eq)).
They extended possibility to accept homebrew FIR which is not possible into Lake ( the one i use). But as it is semi modular nothing stop anyone to use the unit as 12 independent DAC/ 4 independent ADC and proceed FIR from a computer and attack it as converters (with definitive eq) through AES/EBU ( or probably Dante but i've not tested more than 2 chanels at this date so it is theorical).
I would not recommend this if someone is interested into this kind of loudspeaker management unit though: the Lake start to show it's age ( Dante is not supported anymore by Audinate, AES/EBU at 96khz only ( can work at 192khz but it is downsampled/upsampled around the core which is locked at 96khz)).
Otherwise the AD/DA sound very nice and is handy wrt groundloops ( there is software remote to isolate/float dacs), it is stable and accept wordclock well ( you hear the difference clock units bring with them) and it's overall very powerful unit but... for same price you can enter Q-Sys core system which is way more powerful ( fully modular).
I've not heard their DA though but i'm sure they are more than ok. And if not to your taste it's Dante enabled so any compatible converters could take over duty.
They extended possibility to accept homebrew FIR which is not possible into Lake ( the one i use). But as it is semi modular nothing stop anyone to use the unit as 12 independent DAC/ 4 independent ADC and proceed FIR from a computer and attack it as converters (with definitive eq) through AES/EBU ( or probably Dante but i've not tested more than 2 chanels at this date so it is theorical).
I would not recommend this if someone is interested into this kind of loudspeaker management unit though: the Lake start to show it's age ( Dante is not supported anymore by Audinate, AES/EBU at 96khz only ( can work at 192khz but it is downsampled/upsampled around the core which is locked at 96khz)).
Otherwise the AD/DA sound very nice and is handy wrt groundloops ( there is software remote to isolate/float dacs), it is stable and accept wordclock well ( you hear the difference clock units bring with them) and it's overall very powerful unit but... for same price you can enter Q-Sys core system which is way more powerful ( fully modular).
I've not heard their DA though but i'm sure they are more than ok. And if not to your taste it's Dante enabled so any compatible converters could take over duty.
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Ähm ... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-and-minidsp-2x4-hd-dsp-and-dac.2674/
"It fits in the class of $30 USB DACs." (jitter)
15dB higher noise floor as a good DA converter
20-30dB more intermodulation distortion ...
I have one of these and was not happy with the performance.
The point is - claiming DSP crossovers are sounding bad (mbrennwa) and useing one of the worst units available ...
Hypex has 115dB S/N from digital input to power amp output - that's where you can start thinking about doing a sound comparison.
@krivium The Lake controller is top notch! I would still be very happy with it ;-)
MiniDSP Flex seems to be a very nice unit (even if they again have 3dB better S/N in their datasheet as the unit can deliver: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-flex-review-audio-dsp.30804/)
Not sure about the compromises of the Flex 8 unit. You often use 2 D/A converters of multichannel chips to build a symmetrical output and reduce noise and THD. I bet they just use one converter per channel but the same chip for the Flex 8 - so performance will change.
That maybe true for the 2x4HD, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the 4x10HD as being a minidsp that performs very well considering it's price. But shure there are better performing devices that can be found nowadays including from minidsp. Ps I have no affiliation with them but they have made dsp acessible for people on a tighter budget like me and I value that too.
As far as I know it is the same hardware platform as the DDRC -88a:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ddrc-88a-dirac-multichannel-dsp-review.15900/
90dB SINAD and 95-98dB(A) S/N. That's 20dB less as a Hypex module WITH power amp.
(btw datasheet claims 105dB S/N, older ones 114dB S/N)
While these are a nice entrence in the world of DSP and the software is great I would not do a serious listening test with them. They show their age and these older MiniDSP units are far from their new products.
@diyiggy thought about the T25 models from Bliesma? These have very good sensitivity, I cross them at 1800-200Hz and the A version is not expensive.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ddrc-88a-dirac-multichannel-dsp-review.15900/
90dB SINAD and 95-98dB(A) S/N. That's 20dB less as a Hypex module WITH power amp.
(btw datasheet claims 105dB S/N, older ones 114dB S/N)
While these are a nice entrence in the world of DSP and the software is great I would not do a serious listening test with them. They show their age and these older MiniDSP units are far from their new products.
@diyiggy thought about the T25 models from Bliesma? These have very good sensitivity, I cross them at 1800-200Hz and the A version is not expensive.
measurements and datasheet suggest a higher cut-off, no ? At least for the fabric version I was attracted by... How is the sound of the A for you VS other metal you heard already, please ? (SB Acoustic or Seas). I am suspicious about the T25A because what HifiCompass wrote; he seemed more attracted by the fabric version.
Which mesurements?
THD at 8V - that's >100dBSpl. <1% at 2kHz, H3 rises steep at about 1,3kHz. At the filter frequency you already are a few db down, less stress for the driver there.
Here a speaker with T25B:
No THD rise in the 2kHz area. In fact that's incredibly low, no signs of stress or restrictions.
I don't use the S version cause I want/need tweeters with piston behaviour in their working range. For HighEnd designs I use the B version - my GoTo tweeter cause it's the best I know. I also like the Scanspeak Berylliums (sound is similar) but the bliesma tops it for me and is handy in use.
But for my rear speakers i plan a design with the A version cause I need very wide dispersion - and this is an exceptional tweeter in this regard. I still think the B sounds more natural - but this doesn't help when you loose this nice highs off axis to much.
A friend of mine who builds speakers nearly as long as I do just recently finished a design with the T25A. And was surprised about the sound. Translated:
"Leider geil - "sadly ace". Sounds pretty different/better as all the other aluminium + diffusor tweeters. Didn't expect that, like it more as the Seas in waveguide or the tweeter of the KH80".
A tweeter like T25A puts significant more energy off axis >10kHz as most (all?) other tweeters! So this can be to bright/shiny if you are not aware of that or your room has only hard surfaces. You may have to dampen it a little for the sound you are used - or enjoy it, finally enough energy in the room >10kHz.
The cool side - you are able to stand far off axis and still hear the whole spectrum. This is already spooky with T34A, T25A does even a little more.
For "easy listening" the S version is probably the better decision. Both A and B give you all the details - B a little more natural, A more wide spread.
THD at 8V - that's >100dBSpl. <1% at 2kHz, H3 rises steep at about 1,3kHz. At the filter frequency you already are a few db down, less stress for the driver there.
Here a speaker with T25B:
No THD rise in the 2kHz area. In fact that's incredibly low, no signs of stress or restrictions.
I don't use the S version cause I want/need tweeters with piston behaviour in their working range. For HighEnd designs I use the B version - my GoTo tweeter cause it's the best I know. I also like the Scanspeak Berylliums (sound is similar) but the bliesma tops it for me and is handy in use.
But for my rear speakers i plan a design with the A version cause I need very wide dispersion - and this is an exceptional tweeter in this regard. I still think the B sounds more natural - but this doesn't help when you loose this nice highs off axis to much.
A friend of mine who builds speakers nearly as long as I do just recently finished a design with the T25A. And was surprised about the sound. Translated:
"Leider geil - "sadly ace". Sounds pretty different/better as all the other aluminium + diffusor tweeters. Didn't expect that, like it more as the Seas in waveguide or the tweeter of the KH80".
A tweeter like T25A puts significant more energy off axis >10kHz as most (all?) other tweeters! So this can be to bright/shiny if you are not aware of that or your room has only hard surfaces. You may have to dampen it a little for the sound you are used - or enjoy it, finally enough energy in the room >10kHz.
The cool side - you are able to stand far off axis and still hear the whole spectrum. This is already spooky with T34A, T25A does even a little more.
For "easy listening" the S version is probably the better decision. Both A and B give you all the details - B a little more natural, A more wide spread.
When you compare to older Seas tweeter:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-27tbfc/g-h1212
Or tweters which really need to be crossed over higher:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/vifa/vifa-dq25sc16-04
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers...-faber-twe283001-sonetto-center-1-loudspeaker
Or just some other, cheaper tweeters often used in the community
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/tb-speakers/tangband-28-1177sb
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-27tbfc/g-h1212
Or tweters which really need to be crossed over higher:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/vifa/vifa-dq25sc16-04
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers...-faber-twe283001-sonetto-center-1-loudspeaker
Or just some other, cheaper tweeters often used in the community
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/tb-speakers/tangband-28-1177sb
was not easy to translate "leider geil" in french but I would say " doux amer" ! More looking for a no brainer sound, relaxing but detailled in the spirit of the NE149W ! The S version is unfornatully no so straigth forward on the power response side !
Indeed, good H3 number towards 2 k hz for the T25A !
Indeed, good H3 number towards 2 k hz for the T25A !
agreed but alas they still has a sound, I came to find what I looked for on my everydays speaker with a lot of work on the passive filter parts, made a huge difference. Hard work, no ready made caps made the job, I had to mix à la Tony Gee with the caps. I work at 0.1 uF precision, so I imagine it was not only about power response !
The first gen 2x4 MiniDSP i would consider ready for the bin. IMO that was not a good product. Not even at the time of release. One thing they Got right was the software. Very easy and intuitive. MiniDSP still is, compared to Hypex Fusion.
Hypex software thinking is from the point of a dsp programmer and speaker developer.
MiniDSP software is from the view of a speaker controller. Way easier, but less sophisticated (e.g. measurement function from Hypex software).
I would go with MiniDSP Software cause I don't work as Hypex wants you to do. When you have a few speakers to tune (home cinema LCR) it's a pain with Hypex.
But hey - they have the best hardware and really good sound. So it is.
MiniDSP software is from the view of a speaker controller. Way easier, but less sophisticated (e.g. measurement function from Hypex software).
I would go with MiniDSP Software cause I don't work as Hypex wants you to do. When you have a few speakers to tune (home cinema LCR) it's a pain with Hypex.
But hey - they have the best hardware and really good sound. So it is.