I have the AE TD12S and the Raal 70-20XR/AM on hand now since the TD6M is not a good choice do to being discontinued, and it requires such a different enclosure. I was going for a Avalon clone do to less baffle loss on the mid. Something about 48-54" H, 14" W and from 12" to 24" D. I was thinking Volt to match up to the VM752 in a 4-way; but maybe a 3-way using the VM752 as the sole midrange. I'm open to opinions. I'm not looking to build a studio monitor. I want a great sounding speaker in a home audio environment. I mainly listen to R&B, Blues, & Rock. I want to be able to move the speaker around without to much strain on my back as I get older. I am 52 years old and want to keep this speaker for life. If we go for a 3-way I need the best Midrange on the planet to match the TD12S and the Raal 70-20. And remember I have the minidsp 4X10HD with the plug-in, so I can tweek this speaker to the max. There will be a passive X-over between the mid and tweet. Opinions Thanks
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If you have the MiniDSP 4x10HD already that you're going to use in the system, and you are planning to biamp the speaker, ditch the woofer and highpass mid crossover, and run an active crossover between the woofer and mid/tweeter.
Then, find a mid without nasties in the fr response and make the mid/tweeter crossover with just impedance correction and crossover. Do any frequency correction in the Minidsp.
Maybe have a look at the FaitalPRO 8PR200 mid?
Johan-Kr
Then, find a mid without nasties in the fr response and make the mid/tweeter crossover with just impedance correction and crossover. Do any frequency correction in the Minidsp.
Maybe have a look at the FaitalPRO 8PR200 mid?
Johan-Kr
Have you ever seen their measurements?
As for alternatives, check out Satori or Accuton.
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It's the fact that John has changed the frame and cone, and told me that the new TD6M wouldn't work in the same enclosure as the old design that has the 700Hz glitch. So I don't want to build based on a mid that has such a problem and isn't replaceable do to no longer being made. What a bummer. I emailed John to see if he would replace my Brand New unused TD6M pair of the first, & bad version with the new version if they are truly AE quality and if not I don't want to waste my time and enclosure on a mid that is inferior to the competition. I haven't heard back from John. I feel like he should do this in good faith. Since I purchased 2 pair of TD12S, and a pair of TD6M based on the reputation and John's word that AE is the best of the best and he gives the customer service that the bigger company's can't. I waited 8 months while they were being made and didn't bitch about it like others do. All I want is for him to make it right since he knows the ones I have are not AE quality. I am building a speaker based on AE drivers and have invested to Ton of money just to make everything ideal for the AE driversl, from the minidsp 4x10hd w/ plug-in and sbooster power supply, amps, pre-amp all modded to be ideal for the AE speakers, cables, turntable Rega RP6 with exact2 cartridge, Jolida phono stage extreme modded by Chris Johnson of Parts Connexion, and completely remodeled the dedicated listening room for these speakers all of which to complement the AE speakers I also told all my friends and they're all waiting to purchased the TD15S & TD15M speakers after they hear my speakers. I am his best spokes person in the Midwest USA. So maybe he will take care of me because it's the right thing to do if you want build on the reputation of your small business as being the best of the best for DIY. This is what he had set out to do, be a "GIANT KILLER".So we will see. In the mean time life goes on and what goes around comes around. Just saying. Chime in.
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As I said, I'd drop the entire crossover on the woofer, and do the mid as a simple lowpass. Do the woofer lowpass and the mid highpass in the Minidsp. This'll give you a lift in sound quality, an increase in efficiency as well as more flexibility. You can then fix the peak at 500 as well as other smaller eq like the peak from 10-14k in the treble.
Johan-Kr
Johan-Kr
Yes, I am planning on dying something like you suggested. The graphs is just to let you see the potential of the Volt VM752 and get you opinions as to weather it's worthy and a good match for the 3-way design. So to recap we would be pushing the VM752 down to around 375-500Hz and running the TD12S up to about 375-500Hz. Do you guys think that these two drive units are really the best candidates for this task. I can do wonders with the minidsp 4X10HD to find the x-over points that sound best to me, then design the appropriate x-over. First we have to use the best drive unit and this is what i'm asking help with. We looked at the ATC 3" mid and the Volt works better in this set-up. So if you know of another Mid that will compete or do a better job than the Volt 3" dome. State your ideas. Remember this is not a studio monitor design for studio use, this is get on it and jam monster that will sound great weather the volume is low or at concert levels.Thanks
The Volt has a reccomended frequency range of 500-4000Hz. I don't know that I'd go much below this. While it has good headroom for a home installation, and the MiniDSP can move the cutoff downwards, I believe you'll quickly run into rising THD.
The Volt 3" dome is a very capable driver, so it'll do the job.
Johan-Kr
The Volt 3" dome is a very capable driver, so it'll do the job.
Johan-Kr
My thinking is to tune the 3.0 cu ft. enclosure to 31.5hz ported with 3" ports for a Q of .707 then use the minidsp to x-over at say 60hz this should allow for a cleaner, tighter, more musical bass and more punch and also allow the top end to play cleanly up past 500hz by removing the lower frequencies and let the JL Audio F112 pair of subs to handle the 60hz down and if I plug the ports it should give me a sealed tune of 73hz and use the minidsp to EQ down to 50 or 60hz for a Q of .707 and see which sound I like the best and which has the most punch. If I like the sealed sound better I can use my pair of JL Audio active F112 subs to handle the 50-60hz and down. How does this idea sound to you DIY gurus. Are the JL Audio subs worthy of this task or should I look to other subs from say AE, satori, faital etc...to handle this task by using the minidsp to integrate all the speakers. Opinions please. Thanks
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If you are using a sub anyways, I'd use a sealed cabinet for the 12", and use a Linkwitz transform to extend the freqency response downwards.
You can find a spreadsheet on MiniDSPs pages to calculate the proper biquad parameters. This'll mess less with phase than a ported cabinet, and excursion is more controlled than with a port. Do the sub crossover in MiniDSP as well.
The spreadsheet will let you dial in whatever Fs and Q you like...
Johan-Kr
You can find a spreadsheet on MiniDSPs pages to calculate the proper biquad parameters. This'll mess less with phase than a ported cabinet, and excursion is more controlled than with a port. Do the sub crossover in MiniDSP as well.
The spreadsheet will let you dial in whatever Fs and Q you like...
Johan-Kr
Do you have any naked pictures.... of your new TD6M?
Any measurements.... from AES forum or your equipment?
Thanks for posting the pic of your old TD6M with absorption foam + goo around the magnet. I suspect that there is a baffle shape which can generate some SPL boost around this frame-reflection SPL drop, but this baffle boost would not help the increase in distortion.
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I'm still in the 6" midbass camp, maybe Satori MW16P-8 with LR4 or BW3 at 2.2kHz to the RAAL ribbon. A 6" mid has enough cone area for good dynamics in a 3-way.
PROTOTYPE: You could also build up a TM prototype for experimenting with Xover+ amps using your TD6M + your Audax TW025A20 dome tweeter. Figure out your room and equipment while playing with a good 3-way build before the final driver decisions.
I thinking about going with an atc smc100sl clone but with better drivers and better x-overs and much better cabinet bracing, wood and damping. TD12S. Volt VM752, & Raal 70-20XR/AM and a pair of AE SBP 15" for the subs 60hz and down all ran by the minidsp 4X10HD with sbooster power supply. We measured the volt and it is better than the Atc. opinons
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Worth a read..TD12H + ATC 150S + RAAL 70x40
The ATC SM75-150S Midrange Driver Review by Jeff Bagby
http://studio-hifi.com/images/ATC75-150S_JeffBagby.pdf
"Crossover of approximately 400 Hz between the TD12H and the SM75-150S, and an acoustic crossover of 3 kHz between the SM75-150S and the RAAL Ribbon."
------P.S.-----
Parts Express has low cost speaker cabinets which could be used for a TM with your TD6M + Audax TW025A20. A couple come with precut speaker holes for 6.5" midrange(165mm frame) + 1" dome tweeter(110mm ). A router or saber saw would be all you need for the other finished cabinets. You can experiment with your MiniDSP + amps.
$62 for a pair of black cabinets, pre-cut for a 6.5" midrange(165mm) and 1" dome(110mm)
cut for Dayton Audio DC28FS-8 1-1/8" silk dome tweeter 110mm diameter and DC160S-8 6-1/2" woofer.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-br-1cab-br-1-6-1-2-2-way-speaker-cabinet-pair--300-645
--If you are still curious about other 6" midranges:
-Faital 6FE100 for $42 you get Al inductance ring and 91db sensitivity
-B&C 6NDL38 93db sensitivity with AL inducatance ring.
-BMS 6N160 for $250 gets Re=11-ohm tube amp favorite. The RAAL has 9 & 12 ohm taps.
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