Rohde Schwarz R&S UPL Audio Analyzer Renovation

thebrunx · 2022-03-11 3:42 pm

Hello Community,

I recently got my first audio analyzer, its an old R&S UPD (with black and white display), after some setup huddles everything now seems be working fine except that one of the analog analyzer card always has overrange error status no matter what setting I tried.
Does anyone have an idea what could be causing this problem and how to fix it.
I will appreciate any suggestions
Thank you.

simingx · 2022-03-11 4:15 pm

thebrunx said:
Hello Community,

I recently got my first audio analyzer, its an old R&S UPD (with black and white display), after some setup huddles everything now seems be working fine except that one of the analog analyzer card always has overrange error status no matter what setting I tried.
Does anyone have an idea what could be causing this problem and how to fix it.
I will appreciate any suggestions
Thank you.

I can’t imagine that the input stage would be too much different from the UPL, maybe use the schematic as a starting point? If the other channel is working you could use that to compare voltages etc.

thebrunx · 2022-03-11 4:50 pm

simingx said:
I can’t imagine that the input stage would be too much different from the UPL, maybe use the schematic as a starting point? If the other channel is working you could use that to compare voltages etc.

Hello Simingx
Where can I get schematics from?

Thanks

PS. this is how it looks:

simingx · 2022-03-13 12:31 am

The schematics for the UPL could be found from the Google Drive link in the first post. Can you try ranging manually (on the faulty channel)? Do you hear relay clicks? If you remove the input signal does the overrange go away?

thebrunx · 2022-03-16 9:33 pm

I can hear relay clicks when ranging manually in FIX mode, but not in LOWER, the overrange never goes away even with or without input.

thebrunx · 2022-03-18 2:57 pm

one of the analog analyzer cards is missing an ADC board inside it, is that normal?

Shinja · 2022-03-19 11:19 pm

It's normal. It is included in the UPD-B3 high speed extension option.

astx · 2022-03-24 10:54 pm

electronic said:
I will try some OS variants next week. Still waiting for the CF cards and adaptor.

FreeDOS might break some runtimes if the UPL is based on MS tricks

UPL 3.06 works running freedos 1.3
Some days ago I've bought an old UPL which has a AI5VG+ mainboard running a pentium s 133 and no network card on board.
Added an old Intel PCI PRO 100 network card using a PCI riser card and testet using the e100bpkt.com driver.
Successfully started mtcp ftp server.

My fdconfig.sys

SET DOSDIR=C:\FreeDOS
 !COUNTRY=049,858,C:\FreeDOS\BIN\COUNTRY.SYS
!LASTDRIVE=V
!BUFFERS=30,8
!FILES=40
!MENUCOLOR=7,0
 MENUDEFAULT=2,5
MENU 1 - Load FreeDOS with JEMMEX, no EMS (most UMBs), max RAM free
MENU 2 - Load FreeDOS with JEMMEX (more compatible)
MENU 3 - Load FreeDOS with JEMM386 (Expanded Memory)
MENU 4 - Load FreeDOS low with some drivers (Safe Mode)
MENU 5 - Load FreeDOS without drivers (Emergency Mode)
 123?DOS=HIGH
123?DOS=UMB
123?DOSDATA=UMB
 1?DEVICE=C:\FreeDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=TEST I=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG
2?DEVICE=C:\FreeDOS\BIN\JEMMEX.EXE NOEMS X=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG
34?DEVICE=C:\FreeDOS\BIN\HIMEMX.EXE
3?DEVICE=C:\FreeDOS\BIN\JEMM386.EXE X=TEST NOVME NOINVLPG
 12?SHELLHIGH=C:\FreeDOS\BIN\COMMAND.COM C:\FreeDOS\BIN /E:1024 /P=C:\FDAUTO.BAT
345?SHELL=C:\FreeDOS\BIN\COMMAND.COM C:\FreeDOS\BIN /E:1024 /P=C:\FDAUTO.BAT

12?fcbs=1
12?devicehigh=c:\upl\driver\iecx.sys

My fdauto.bat's last line:

c:\uplstart.bat

My uplstart.bat (in principle the old autoexec.bat reduced to the max)

@echo off
c:\upl\contrast 60
c:\upl\lpt_set -s1,0x278 -d2 -q
rem C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /N C+ /U 512 512
PROMPT $p$g
PATH=C:\FreeDOS\BIN;C:\FreeDOS\LINKS;C:\UPL;C:\UTIL;c:\sys\util;c:\;
 SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
rem 'assign' only necessary to supress the DOS message "enter disk ..."
rem ASSIGN B:=A:
MODE com1: baud=9600 parity=e data=7 stop=1 retry=n > NUL
rem MODE com2: baud=9600 parity=e data=7 stop=1 retry=n > NUL
rem -------------------------------------------- check for AT
set BOARD=SX386
cpu
if errorlevel 4 set BOARD=UM486
if errorlevel 5 set BOARD=UM586
rem -------------------------------------------- try to run UPL
set UPL_PATH=C:\UPL\
if not exist c:\upl\uplcfg.bat call c:\upl\bootset
call c:\upl\uplcfg
rem --------------- create environment UPL_SET
echo ÿ
if %UPL_LANG%x == Ex goto SET_UK
if %UPL_LANG%x == Fx goto SET_FR
if %UPL_LANG%x == Ux goto SET_US
if %UPL_LANG%x == Dx goto SET_GR
if %UPL_LANG%x == Ix goto SET_IT
if %UPL_LANG%x == Cx goto SET_CF
if %UPL_LANG%x == Mx goto SET_DK
if %UPL_LANG%x == Nx goto SET_NO
echo ÿ
echo ! language not set up to now, using GERMAN as default.
echo ÿ
 :SET_GR
echo setting language to: GERMAN
LH KEYB GR,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_IT
echo setting language to: ITALIANLH KEYB IT,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_UK
echo setting language to: ENGLISH (UK)
LH KEYB UK,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_US
echo setting language to: ENGLISH (US)
LH KEYB US,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_FR
echo setting language to: FRENCH
LH KEYB FR,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_CF
echo setting language to: CANADIAN
LH KEYB CF,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_DK
echo setting language to: DANISH
LH KEYB DK,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :SET_NO
echo setting language to: NORWEGIAN
LH KEYB NO,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
goto cont1
 :cont1
if not exist c:\upl\upl.bat goto error
if not exist c:\upl\userkeyb.bat goto no_userk
call c:\upl\userkeyb.bat
 :no_userk
if not exist c:\mouse\mouse.com goto no_mous0
lh c:\mouse\mouse
:no_mous0
cd \upl
cls
upl %UPLCFG%
goto exit
 :error
rem -------------------------------------------- UPL not existing
echo
echo FATAL ERROR: UPL PROGRAM not found!
echo ÿ
echo Please install UPL:
echo - Insert UPL PROGRAM DISK.
echo - Type "A:" and Enter.
echo - Type "UPLINST" and Enter.
echo - Follow the advices on the screen.
echo ÿ
:exit

Thx for the thread! Really useful information and data!
Have fun, Toni

thebrunx · 2022-03-25 12:45 pm

Hello,
If anyone is interested in buying my device with the condition I stated above, PM me with an offer.
ask for photos etc.
I am not an expert and maybe someone with more knowledge has better luck
Regards

astx · 2022-03-25 1:58 pm

astx said:
My fdauto.bat:

One additional change in FDAUTO.BAT is needed: change the codepage 858 to 437 in order to be able to display "Ohm" sign correctly.
BR, Toni

astx · 2022-04-08 2:33 pm

Maybe an UPL expert can help me to identify which part may be defective:
After some days of normal operation my UPL Analog generator in Mode "SINE" or "MULTISINE" stopped working in "AUTO" output level mode. If I set "Generator / Volt Range" to a fixed value the output level is as expected. Otherwise it is 42 dB higher as expected. E.g. SINE set to 0.003V output level I get 0.381V RMS - factor 127...

BR, Toni

astx · 2022-04-09 10:45 am

Found some more details: if the sweep generator voltage starts below 0.63 volt, the "GEN OVLD" LED immediatly switches on. If sweep generator voltages start above 0.63V the "AUTO" function works ...
Any Ideas?

astx · 2022-04-10 2:53 pm

Above problem solved - one of the generator output attenuators failed - see attached pictures.
There has been a repair try - left picture you can see holes in 4 relais. The right one hang in "ON - position". The generator output voltages have been to high.
The relais have been filled with oil-like fluid. Never have seen such a "repair" method. Old Oil tends to be loose viscosity...
Any comments?

BR, Toni

Shinja · 2022-04-13 10:27 am

Maybe something like contact lubricants? Looks like a lousy amateur repair attempt. Bad condition!
There are volatile relay contact cleaners other than oil, although replacing is preferable.

astx · 2022-04-13 11:26 am

Of course replacement preferred. The relays are hard to get. Hopefully the TQ2SL-5V are working as replacement for the TQ2SA-5V. Specs look similar - only case is a bit higher...
If someone knows different replacement types for TQ2SA-5V please let me know.

BR, Toni

electronic · 2022-04-20 8:23 pm

thebrunx said:
Hello,
If anyone is interested in buying my device with the condition I stated above, PM me with an offer.
ask for photos etc.
I am not an expert and maybe someone with more knowledge has better luck
Regards

How much and location? Drop me a PM.
Pictures?

phofman · 2022-04-21 6:46 am

astx said:
Of course replacement preferred. The relays are hard to get. Hopefully the TQ2SL-5V are working as replacement for the TQ2SA-5V. Specs look similar - only case is a bit higher...
If someone knows different replacement types for TQ2SA-5V please let me know.

For replacing just several pieces - I use regular THT relays and just bend and shorten the pins, e.g. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/20210126_183700-jpg.915498/ . There are a number of relays in that same footprint with THT - e.g. A5W-K, TQ2. Otherwise TQ2SA-5V are readily available on ebay (presumably new, e.g. not from China https://www.ebay.com/itm/144222633912). I have used ebay-sourced signal relays for prototyping, never had any problem.

DGTLDAV · 2022-04-25 4:58 pm

simingx said:
Just a quick update on my UPL, I hope I can somehow do my little part to contribute to this treasure trove of information on this legendary instrument.

Even the story of how I picked up a UPL with the B29 option is interesting... bear with me, please

When collecting the instrument from the seller, I noticed he had an entire pile(!!!) of them at the back of the shop. I kid you not, he has at least another 10 of them in his storage. Some factory must be mass upgrading them!
So, I asked, could I have a look at them to see if they had any internal options which I would be interested to acquire. I was looking for the B1 low distortion oscillator option.
Sure, he said, go ahead.
From the photos here and my first unit I knew the location of the oscillator, so I shone my phone's flashlight through the side of all the instruments.

And lo and behold, as luck would have it, right at the bottom of the pile was a unit which had a B1! It was the only one in the stack which had it, I wonder why...

The intention was to pay the seller's asking price for the entire unit (very reasonably priced!), just extract the B1 module so he could still sell the rest of the unit as "Parts Only".

After doing an intense physical workout to retrieve the unit, I opened it up, only to find a mystery board where the digital interface sits. The front panel was still the standard part, with no digital audio jacks.

The part number on the board read "1078.4300.02". Strange I thought, Googling it doesn't produce any results. The UPL user manual states part number 1078.4000.02 for the UPL-B2 and 1078.5107.02 for the UPL-B29. It however had the Sync and Ref sockets on the back of the board, so I didn't think it was the UPL16.

In any case, it was a much newer unit (~2004 vintage) than mine (~2000), with the small CPU board and a power supply which was in better condition, so I took the entire instrument anyway.

When I got back, I quickly realized why the unit had the digital board but no digital jacks... the signs were that the display, keyboard and floppy connector were all disconnected. Someone had swapped out the front panel for one without the digital output, but left the rest of the instrument intact! This was confirmed by plugging the display into my working unit, to be greeted with a blank, black screen. I would later find out that the backlight was completely broken (literally, the CFL tube had turned to dust) and the LCD was not working as well.

I have an AES front panel Digital Audio I/O board that might be of use to member simingx.
I am interested in acquiring a B1 Low Distortion Oscillator option board.
How does one send Private Messages on this forum if I were to want to reply to someone privately?
Thank you,
Dave

Bjirre · 2022-05-07 10:39 am

Great to see this thread coming along.

For anybody interested. I still have UPL keyboard PCB and UPZ Switcher PCB available. Send me a direct message if you want to buy one. I also have PS2 to Serial PCB's so you can emulate a PS2 mouse into a serial mouse that can be used on the UPL.

Cheers,

Bart

astx · 2022-05-07 11:07 am

BTW: All R&S UPL with the Ai5VG+ mainboard have a PS2 mouse header on the mainboard directly at the keyboard socket. I have bought some PS2 female sockets and converted my UPL for PS2 keyboard and PS2 mouse use.
Bart: thank you for your UPL front keyboard pcb design.

The old Flex-PCB connector doesn't survive some disconnect/connect cycles without damage! Since many old UPL suffer from defect CCFL LCD lights it is very likely you will kill your flex pcb connector during repair or replacement of the display

Have fun, Toni

Rohde Schwarz R&S UPL Audio Analyzer Renovation

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