Resistors are but a small part of an entire preamp or power amp, but they are important in that I have both heard and measured differences that I would not have first believed were possible. Designers knew more about resistor differences 30 years ago, than they appear to know today, in general. A set of articles in HFN from the year 1985 proves this. Measurements are what a 'meter' measures, sound quality is what the ear defines.
Whose set of articles? And what did they prove?
SAS Audio Labs, amplifier preamps, resistor comparisons: must be this. And hey, it proves nothing!
SAS Audio Labs, amplifier preamps, resistor comparisons: must be this. And hey, it proves nothing!
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Yawn, of course components in general have deteriated in the last 30 years with no advances.....
The article proves nothing...
WHY do other areas of electronics involved with sensitive analogue manage to avoid resistor directivity and can engineer solutions using todays wide choice of components that are more than up to the job...
30 years ago I was using red and blue tape for PCBs as well as early version of ECAD, a PC was a PC (20Meg hard drive) and SMD was just appearing in main stream designs oh and a drawing board and pens for mechanical!!!!!!!
No **** different capacitors have different parameters. Even Doug self will admit that in 'certain' cases there are capacitors you just don't chose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_zkE_42BV4 If you have some time to learn something.
Do different capacitors have different parameters, wow, glad that a 1980s document has finally shed some light on this otherwise we would have been in the dark...
There are no arguments that different resistors and different capacitors have different parameters and should be chosen with regards to their position in a circuit... Wot is under discussion is whether the difference between resistor types are audible... as to resistors sounding different depending on the way they are placed, that is up there in fantasy land with directional cables, BQPs, fairies and emperors with dodgy tailors.....
There are no arguments that different resistors and different capacitors have different parameters and should be chosen with regards to their position in a circuit... Wot is under discussion is whether the difference between resistor types are audible... as to resistors sounding different depending on the way they are placed, that is up there in fantasy land with directional cables, BQPs, fairies and emperors with dodgy tailors.....
empirical data... quite simple repeatable testing and measurements showing that there is a difference and how big is the difference...
Not the difference was like that between night and day or the wife in the kitchen anecdotes....
When engineering a design the passive components parameters like all other components have to be taken into account, as previously stated regarding resistors there are a range of things that have to be looked at...
As to resistor effects they seem to be very low level (when one type is swapped for another), below the threshold of hearing if correctly chosen for the job in hand, and often at the level of measuring equipment...
Not the difference was like that between night and day or the wife in the kitchen anecdotes....
When engineering a design the passive components parameters like all other components have to be taken into account, as previously stated regarding resistors there are a range of things that have to be looked at...
As to resistor effects they seem to be very low level (when one type is swapped for another), below the threshold of hearing if correctly chosen for the job in hand, and often at the level of measuring equipment...
😀
Nevertheless in my world of fairy tales, with AC signals, they sound different according direction...
Please, still groggy, just waking up and didn't have my morning coffee yet: are we still in the resistors thread or inadvertently I woke up in the *diodes* one? 😕
Or as an alternative, did ClaveFremen stumble into the resistor one? 😛
Hi,
As the saying goes the proof is in the pudding.
It keeps on amazing me every day how many people involved in audio design for measurements and not listening results.
If it measures well it must sound well, right ?
Wrong.
Cheers, 😉
As the saying goes the proof is in the pudding.
It keeps on amazing me every day how many people involved in audio design for measurements and not listening results.
If it measures well it must sound well, right ?
Wrong.
Cheers, 😉
I stand by my comment. Martin C, who despite being a designer of some well accepted loudspeakers does go completely bonkers on occasion.
For example on the Holco he says
"
Sound 88%: a very fair copy- neutral, well balanced, clear and clean strings, good depth, slightly soft bass, very mildly defocused, accurate."
A copy of what? There was no reference as this was a cartridge load and CD player output termination, not only that but it was in parallel with another resistor. Its flooby dust at its worst. No measurements of the LCR and no measurements of the system.
If you wish to believe that this has given a valid data point, fine, but to me its a journo getting his fee for faffing about a bit. Note that the wirewound resistor sounds 'wiry'. At least the bulk foils didn't sound 'crinkly'
Audio design is engineering, the electronics are either analogue or digital no different from the real world... if you don't measure as well as listen then you aint engineering your playing.....
Or to put it another way, it amazes me how many people involved in esoteric audio believe in fairy tales and rely on easily fooled perceptions to mod things rather than some basic engineering practices... WRONG
If only life were that simple! Raw data is what a meter 'measures'. To get measurements you then have to carefully apply the appropriate understanding.john curl said:
There are some situations where mounting smd capacitors standing up on their narrow edge improves performance.
It's the capacitor manufacturer/s that give details of this alternative mounting for different performance.
reference please, including how to get a pick and place machine to handle that.
Edit couldn't wait, and fail to understand why people don't google before posting.
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa069/sloa069.pdf Explains WHY it changes things but not if the supplier will rotate the parts for you and supply them that way in T&R. Its a bit of an advertorial for Johanson but the gist for those too lazy to click is that you reduce the effects of the parallel plates in the capacitor if you rotate it. Helpful for decoupling in the GHz band which is so vital for audio 😛
Edit couldn't wait, and fail to understand why people don't google before posting.
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa069/sloa069.pdf Explains WHY it changes things but not if the supplier will rotate the parts for you and supply them that way in T&R. Its a bit of an advertorial for Johanson but the gist for those too lazy to click is that you reduce the effects of the parallel plates in the capacitor if you rotate it. Helpful for decoupling in the GHz band which is so vital for audio 😛
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But then they would have missed an important issue. All capacitors are microphonic. Mounting the plates perpendicular to the direction of vibration minimizes this. For a chip cap that would require a bit of effort.
Did an an article that ended up on Elektor that showed a bit of this years ago.
Marce,
As to resistor directionality even on AC signals it does not show up as distortion instead it may seem to be an increase in signal modulated noise. Not really an unknown phenomena. Just very obscure.
Microphony at 2GHz would be very impressive to measure. And I doubt a chip cap pics up anything even if you hit it with a hammer. But I could understand if some boutique hand made by virgins capacitor made a good microphone.
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