Yeah funny how this mythical 'listens with test equipment' always gets rattled out by the flooby believers. I've not found ONE of them on this site. But plenty of delusion and people who are addicted to modding with no real idea why or what might go wrong.
If you don't measure and qualify what you perceive how do you move forward with design.... to just swap parts and rely on your very fallible perception is just playing....
When designing loudspeakers, you just have to listen with test equipment. It is sooo much more sensitive than your ears. With electronics, it is the same, but even more so.
I think you missed my point. I was rebutting "electronics/lab lovers that ear music with tektronix" and the suggestion that people don't actually listen to their creations. From my time here, those who have the most test equipment tend to have some of the biggest music collections and listen to music a lot.
Billshurv you are right ,my is a provocation because some don't thinks that there is a life after lab misure ,is only a part of the story not the end becouse we can not misure what we ear ...that for sure !!!
True, in the sense that we cannot measure a subjective experience such as hearing or vision. We can, however, measure the objective physical stimulus which gives rise to the subjective experience. That is how we know about light frequency (vs. colour) and audio frequency (vs. pitch) - in both cases we can measure far more accurately than we can experience.nicoch58 said:
We cannot measure what others claim to hear. Also, they cannot or will not provide evidence that they are really hearing what they claim to hear.
At this point one of the true believers will probably mention a crude measure of distortion and accuse us of believing in it.
You have to measure AND listen. Listen AND measure. Often I thought something I built sounds fine and then measured it to find phase problems or funny frequency dips. Gues what? After setting that error straight it always sounded better...
Which of course could also be a mindtrick.
Which of course could also be a mindtrick.
We can measure what we hear and far more besides down to silly levels, so stop fooling yourself...
As to perception, look around, people are studying perception for many years, magicians tricks depend upon how we perceive our surrounding's, look at the many documentaries showing how are perception works, how it is easily fooled and how it has developed over our evolution.
Doing 60mph in one car can be perceived as 90mph in another.
Last time I drove by ear, the cops informed me they would be lenient and only charge 31 miles, which would cost me €450.
Ironic bit was that cruise control was still switched on when they pulled me over, set at 5 miles above the speed limit, but my foot wasn't.
The police officers asked me howcome I hadn't noticed them tail me for ten miles on a deserted sunday evening highway in the R'dam port area.
They looked somewhat odd at me, when I answered I'd been thinking.
Shows how we can blank things out....
Nichoc58 chances are you would find a different set of results if you used some form of proper listening tests to determine how audible you think the sound difference is... DBT etc. We are easily fooled by our perceptions and by expectation bias so have to cater for these in the design and development cycle of any audio based product...
Nichoc58 chances are you would find a different set of results if you used some form of proper listening tests to determine how audible you think the sound difference is... DBT etc. We are easily fooled by our perceptions and by expectation bias so have to cater for these in the design and development cycle of any audio based product...
I would split it up and use two. Done properly drops the inductance and capacitance but that shouldn't really matter. Also you might actually look to see if the value can be raised.
Even with existing traces two should fit nicely vertically.
For a split second I was thinking you were advocating mounting SMD resistors edge on rather than flat on the board!
I'm happy to say that I enjoy the whole shebang. Sourcing a little bit less than the other parts. Some by hand treats as handsoldering an LQFP144 was exilirating when the first one worked - the second time was much easier. Nowadays I'm more into interfacing all the wonders that people comes up with to working audio systems with as easy functions as possible at least at the first level as I couldn't let go of the possibility to tweak every corner if it is tweakable so an admin level must exist 🙂
I build, listen, tweak and if happy with it I try to build it into my system. Not to forget - I have lately found interest in measuring things as well so theres another very enjoyable field to delve into 🙂
Regards
I build, listen, tweak and if happy with it I try to build it into my system. Not to forget - I have lately found interest in measuring things as well so theres another very enjoyable field to delve into 🙂
Regards
The Dark Ages-
The dark ages around here weren't all that dark. We had local offices for National Semi, HP and others in town. They'd give you all the data books you wanted, and usually free samples. The local distributors stocked stuff and also had data sheets and catalogs. If you were polite they'd often let you see the parts and buy in small quantities. Record stores were full of records! We had at least a dozen hifi shops carrying just about everything. The McIntosh clinic came to town once every year or two. Every few years you could go to local semi seminars with Bob Pease and Jim Williams. Health care was a lot cheaper so I had way more disposable income to waste on hifi equipment. No, the dark ages weren't that bad.
The dark ages around here weren't all that dark. We had local offices for National Semi, HP and others in town. They'd give you all the data books you wanted, and usually free samples. The local distributors stocked stuff and also had data sheets and catalogs. If you were polite they'd often let you see the parts and buy in small quantities. Record stores were full of records! We had at least a dozen hifi shops carrying just about everything. The McIntosh clinic came to town once every year or two. Every few years you could go to local semi seminars with Bob Pease and Jim Williams. Health care was a lot cheaper so I had way more disposable income to waste on hifi equipment. No, the dark ages weren't that bad.
Explaining perception to someone who is ignorant about it or even denies it exists is like trying to explain how an orgasm feels to a virgin. IOW, futile 🙂
Jan
Last time I checked a virgin can and does reach an orgasm
Jan has led a lonely, lonely life.
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