Hey Petter, don't put me in the cocky group: 
😉
I'm the one trying to make them use one remote to control their entire systems!
I'm stunned how far these guys have gotten while absorbing all the zillions of (conflicting?) suggestions we have put out. The secret I think is that they have incredible energy and don't accept "good enough". Somehow they distilled the input into just 3 products that seem to satisfy 95% of us. Better yet, I think their approaches will become default standards. -at least here.
With this open standard established, Other members could burn alternate controller chips to incorporate special additional features, along with daughter boards to go along. Everyone knows what controls and display are being used.This is going to be BIG!!
As an example- look at the proposed CD control. Just a smidge of reprogramming on the control board, and it's done! (I think, I don't know nothin' about this digital stuff). maybe it needs a daughter board in the CD player
😉 I'm the one trying to make them use one remote to control their entire systems!
I'm stunned how far these guys have gotten while absorbing all the zillions of (conflicting?) suggestions we have put out. The secret I think is that they have incredible energy and don't accept "good enough". Somehow they distilled the input into just 3 products that seem to satisfy 95% of us. Better yet, I think their approaches will become default standards. -at least here.
With this open standard established, Other members could burn alternate controller chips to incorporate special additional features, along with daughter boards to go along. Everyone knows what controls and display are being used.This is going to be BIG!!
As an example- look at the proposed CD control. Just a smidge of reprogramming on the control board, and it's done! (I think, I don't know nothin' about this digital stuff). maybe it needs a daughter board in the CD player
Variac, Thanks for the inspiration!
Well, I've got one complaint so far from a paying customer.
He said he can't believe how badly the DipChip web site describes all of the software features on the APOX-IR1. He built an APOX kit this weekend at Dales house, and I guess he was impressed with Dales slick coding.
Alright alright! I'll try to update the web site tommorow to describe Dales new updates.
But I'll try to mention a few.
1.) You can Customize the Splash screen
2.) You can customize the Input Names
3.) Input offsets. So when you switch from the CD player to your tuner. The relative volume will remain the same.
4.) Balance offsets (For multiple channel systems)
5.) Different power on modes (Come up with last volume, or come up in mute)
6.) Different standby modes. (That I forget what they do? Dale?)
7.) max volume step size. (for when you move the dial fast.)
8.) Home theater bypass mode. (Which I pressed accidentally,
Luckily I was fast on the button, because the speaker was about to blow me out of Dale's Basement.
Sorry Dale! )
9.) There is quite a few more, but I can't remember them?
-Craig
dipchip said:
The update I really want is:
The hardware in my grubby hands. 🙂
Sheldon.
PS I spent the weekend helping a friend with his electrostatic speaker building project. Your boards are going to be a HUGE improvement in my Active ESL crossover. He'll be buying one too when he sees how slick my crossover is.
Sheldon
dipchip said:
Hey Craig,
I wasn't complaining, I was just being a "constructive" critic
All, l finished the Apox-2 (10k) and I must say that this kit is HOT!
I already put on about 6 hours of use in my system, and I will write more about it in detail sometime this week (as I want to spend more time listening).
What I will say right off the bat is that the APOX-2 bests my DACT CT2!
Honestly, its not that I didn't have a lot of faith in Dale and Craig, but I wasn't sure that the APOX-2 would sound as good as my DACT. Why? Well the DACT is all compact with short signal paths and those SMD resistors, which had me believe that it was probably the best sounding stepped attenuator. WRONG
I almost immediately found the APOX-2 to have a better presentation in the bass. Keep in mind that I am running in passive mode (with both the DACT CT-2 and APOX-2, and both are 10k), and I find this to be VERY revealing. I am using their 0.1% resistor kit, and the channel tracking is supurb 
Mids and Highs are sounding extremely open and clear.
Okay, I will post more on the sound soon, but let me mention more about the features. I find the features and user interface to the LCD to be a marvel. There are brightness and contrast controls, headphone on/off, option to remember last volume setting, option to remember last input select setting, ability to rename the title and names of the inputs on the LCD, input level matching option, a standby circuit that has a darlington transistor (this will allow me to use a relay in my amp and have it turned on/off via remote!), and others that I need to have the unit in front of me to remember. The feel of the two Greyhill optical encoders is just right to me. The rotate and also are used as a push botton to "punch in" characters, and to toggle through the menu items. Talk about user customization! And it's nice to know that the onboard microcontrollers can take in the latest features that we all will nag Dale and Craig to put in 😉 Just download to it using a serial cable from your computer.
Yes, the relay switching is silent and smooth as can be. Make-before-break is the word. The relays are of great quality, and are air tight inside and are rated over 1 million cycles! Nice choice because I like to fiddle with the volume, something that I couldn't do with my DACT CT-2 or the Channel Islands VPC-1 that I used to own. I had a Sony universal remote laying around. I put in 2 AA's and didn't even need to program it, the volume UP and DOWN already worked! I am not using an Input Select board at this time, so all I need is volume UP and DOWN.
Like I mentioned, I play to do a full review in the next few days after I put more use on it, but I wanted to throw up a quick blurb on my findings so far.
I'm lucky to live close by to Dale and not have to wait for shipping. I sure I'm hated here by now
CONGRATULATIONS DALE AND CRAIG!!! NICE WORK!!
-Vinnie
status update
Hello all,
All of the kits have been packed.
except for the optical encoders.
Hopefully the encoders will arrive today.
So if everything goes well, all packages will be put in the mail tommorow.
The APOX-4 and the APOX-DK1 are currently in layout.
I have revised the APOX-3 schematic, but I think I may do only 1 channel per board. Dale insisted that we had seperate regulators for each channel. So I think we might as well have them on seperate boards to make the layout much simpler.
Dale and I have also decided to have a company kit the parts for the next run of boards. I never knew how long and tedious kitting boards is.
Thanks everyone for your patience!
-Craig Beiferman
P.S. Vinnie, Thanks for the kind words. I'll send the check tommorow 😉
Hello all,
All of the kits have been packed.
except for the optical encoders.
Hopefully the encoders will arrive today.
So if everything goes well, all packages will be put in the mail tommorow.
The APOX-4 and the APOX-DK1 are currently in layout.
I have revised the APOX-3 schematic, but I think I may do only 1 channel per board. Dale insisted that we had seperate regulators for each channel. So I think we might as well have them on seperate boards to make the layout much simpler.
Dale and I have also decided to have a company kit the parts for the next run of boards. I never knew how long and tedious kitting boards is.
Thanks everyone for your patience!
-Craig Beiferman
P.S. Vinnie, Thanks for the kind words. I'll send the check tommorow 😉
Re: status update
Maybe you guys can send out a SPAM:
"Make $2000 a week at home kitting audio projects"
😉
<A>
Originally posted by dipchip
[Dale and I have also decided to have a company kit the parts for the next run of boards. I never knew how long and tedious kitting boards is.
Maybe you guys can send out a SPAM:
"Make $2000 a week at home kitting audio projects"
😉
<A>
Re: status update
Yep, that's when children and wives come in handy. 😉
dipchip said:Hello all,
Dale and I have also decided to have a company kit the parts for the next run of boards. I never knew how long and tedious kitting boards is.
Yep, that's when children and wives come in handy. 😉
good going guys!!!...I`ll be interested in the future in one of your products and I have to read all of the thread involved because I have some cool simple PIC programmer designs😉
Cheers!!The DIRT®
Cheers!!The DIRT®
You have been calling for features ...
Hi guys,
Since you have been calling for features, here are a couple of suggestions (software):
1. Password/theft/child control (Power on password: Pin1, Pin2, PUK where Pin1,2 could be normal 4 digit pin's, and the PUK could be an 8 digit unblocking number after 5 failures per pin)
2. On the channel select, it might be interesting to have presets as default (phono, tape, CD, DVD, Aux, tuner, ....) and an option to select these directly rather than have to type them in.
I don't know how hard these are to implement, and admit this is merely "nice to have" rather than "must have" features.
Petter
Hi guys,
Since you have been calling for features, here are a couple of suggestions (software):
1. Password/theft/child control (Power on password: Pin1, Pin2, PUK where Pin1,2 could be normal 4 digit pin's, and the PUK could be an 8 digit unblocking number after 5 failures per pin)
2. On the channel select, it might be interesting to have presets as default (phono, tape, CD, DVD, Aux, tuner, ....) and an option to select these directly rather than have to type them in.
I don't know how hard these are to implement, and admit this is merely "nice to have" rather than "must have" features.
Petter
APOX-SHM layout complete
Hi everyone,
I renamed the APOX-4 to the APOX-SHM
(SHunt Mode Mono)
I kept forgetting the differences between the
APOX-1, APOX-2, APOX-3, and APOX-4 that I decided to break the cycle of confusion.
The layout is almost complete, pending final approvals?
I posted a pic of the layout with the Ground planes ripped up for clarity here:
APOX-SHM
To those that forgot, the APOX-SHM is an APOX-1, but it only handles a single channel. BUT, this allows you to do a form of balance control. And allows you to physically seperate the channels far apart.
Anybody see any major problems with the layout?
P.S. Petter did the Bulk of the layout. He did an excellent job seperating the audio from the digital relay drive lines.
Thanks Petter!
-Craig Beiferman
Hi everyone,
I renamed the APOX-4 to the APOX-SHM
(SHunt Mode Mono)
I kept forgetting the differences between the
APOX-1, APOX-2, APOX-3, and APOX-4 that I decided to break the cycle of confusion.
The layout is almost complete, pending final approvals?
I posted a pic of the layout with the Ground planes ripped up for clarity here:
APOX-SHM
To those that forgot, the APOX-SHM is an APOX-1, but it only handles a single channel. BUT, this allows you to do a form of balance control. And allows you to physically seperate the channels far apart.
Anybody see any major problems with the layout?
P.S. Petter did the Bulk of the layout. He did an excellent job seperating the audio from the digital relay drive lines.
Thanks Petter!
-Craig Beiferman
Comments on SHM
Nice layout, guys 🙂
I have a couple of suggestions, but nothing major except one which is more of a question than something that I know for sure. It is about ground planes. I am not sure that a ground plane on the analog section is necessary or even beneficial. It would certainly not help in a passive setup (more capacitance), and how do you ensure that you won't get noise picked up from the ground rather than sunk into it? If you do decide to keep it (think very carefully about that one), open it up a few more mils towards the analog side to create more distance from the digital section, and consider not having in the lower right analog region where it might not do all that much good anyway. Also, if a ground plane is a good thing, consider whether you want a red one or a blue one -- or both! Also, on the digital side, consider moving the ground plane up from the bottom since all it does there is radiate energy with no beneficial effect (nothing to shield there, and resulting antenna is closer to "motherboard"). I also rather like the shape of the corners of the analog section drawn ground plane. How about doing "soft corners ground plane" for the digital section?
Minor comments:
1. "Air pins" and mounting hole bottom right should either be replicated as high up as possible + a partial cutout should be made in order to snap that portion of the board off, or it should be moved up and cut away from the start so that if placed vertically it would interfere less with components on audio motherboard it is mated to. Cut could start just to the right of K12, and it would allow for easier integration in vertical mode into existing equipment.
2. C1 -- can it be set up to accept a larger can size as well? I plan to put OsCon 220u/10V, Dia 10mm, F(ls) 5mm, hole size .5mm (from the looks of things there is room for more pads). Two good things about OsCon's is low impedance and near infinite life (never dries out, no fluid in there anyway)
3. Label RHS ground to DGND
4. Label RHS power to DPWR 5V
5. Add a position for resistor/inductor/wire/ferrite beaded wire between ground planes if you do decide to go for audio ground plane (optional to connect there, no component supplied by DipChip due to all options present)
6. (see item 9 before doing any changes) Via K10 control line: Nice job picking out the mistake I did. Did Eagle help spotting this error? Anyway, can you consider moving the via to an optimal place which would be close to all the other control lines (up), and as far away as possible from all signal lines.
7. In hindsight, perhaps the line going to K1..9 top should be thicker. It is quite long and there is room. Sorry about that one!
8. The same goes for the line on the bottom of the resistor stack, and the vertical ones on the same resistors. There is room to make it wider.
9. Now that I look at it again, I am not pleased with the sharp turns on the In+ signal going into the relays. It might be better to cut the track going between R1 an K11 and do a direct path instead, OR move R1 right. I was quite tormented with this when I did the first layout. Not easy to decide, but the way it is now is worse than the other two alternatives. My guess is that the fist proposal is better for some reason (less K11 relay control current interference?). Another alternative which could be even better now that I think about it is to reverse R11 and R2 on the schematic, and move them left with K11 and K10. This would reduce the signal loop which is good, and a y-connect would cut the sharp turn.
These are all minor suggestions, please don't consider the comments (which are mainly directed at my own incompetence 🙂) unfriendly ...
Petter
😱
Nice layout, guys 🙂
I have a couple of suggestions, but nothing major except one which is more of a question than something that I know for sure. It is about ground planes. I am not sure that a ground plane on the analog section is necessary or even beneficial. It would certainly not help in a passive setup (more capacitance), and how do you ensure that you won't get noise picked up from the ground rather than sunk into it? If you do decide to keep it (think very carefully about that one), open it up a few more mils towards the analog side to create more distance from the digital section, and consider not having in the lower right analog region where it might not do all that much good anyway. Also, if a ground plane is a good thing, consider whether you want a red one or a blue one -- or both! Also, on the digital side, consider moving the ground plane up from the bottom since all it does there is radiate energy with no beneficial effect (nothing to shield there, and resulting antenna is closer to "motherboard"). I also rather like the shape of the corners of the analog section drawn ground plane. How about doing "soft corners ground plane" for the digital section?
Minor comments:
1. "Air pins" and mounting hole bottom right should either be replicated as high up as possible + a partial cutout should be made in order to snap that portion of the board off, or it should be moved up and cut away from the start so that if placed vertically it would interfere less with components on audio motherboard it is mated to. Cut could start just to the right of K12, and it would allow for easier integration in vertical mode into existing equipment.
2. C1 -- can it be set up to accept a larger can size as well? I plan to put OsCon 220u/10V, Dia 10mm, F(ls) 5mm, hole size .5mm (from the looks of things there is room for more pads). Two good things about OsCon's is low impedance and near infinite life (never dries out, no fluid in there anyway)
3. Label RHS ground to DGND
4. Label RHS power to DPWR 5V
5. Add a position for resistor/inductor/wire/ferrite beaded wire between ground planes if you do decide to go for audio ground plane (optional to connect there, no component supplied by DipChip due to all options present)
6. (see item 9 before doing any changes) Via K10 control line: Nice job picking out the mistake I did. Did Eagle help spotting this error? Anyway, can you consider moving the via to an optimal place which would be close to all the other control lines (up), and as far away as possible from all signal lines.
7. In hindsight, perhaps the line going to K1..9 top should be thicker. It is quite long and there is room. Sorry about that one!
8. The same goes for the line on the bottom of the resistor stack, and the vertical ones on the same resistors. There is room to make it wider.
9. Now that I look at it again, I am not pleased with the sharp turns on the In+ signal going into the relays. It might be better to cut the track going between R1 an K11 and do a direct path instead, OR move R1 right. I was quite tormented with this when I did the first layout. Not easy to decide, but the way it is now is worse than the other two alternatives. My guess is that the fist proposal is better for some reason (less K11 relay control current interference?). Another alternative which could be even better now that I think about it is to reverse R11 and R2 on the schematic, and move them left with K11 and K10. This would reduce the signal loop which is good, and a y-connect would cut the sharp turn.
These are all minor suggestions, please don't consider the comments (which are mainly directed at my own incompetence 🙂) unfriendly ...
Petter
😱
Does the SHM allow you to control all channels simultaniusly with a remote? (and keep their relative volumes the same?) This idea has been proposed occasionally around here... by Halojoy/gromanswe notably.
This way ,as you mentioned, the preamp and power amp can be right next to each speaker.
Yo u should now rename the APOX 1 the APOX-SHS
Seriously, you better get some consistancey here!😉 😱 😱
This way ,as you mentioned, the preamp and power amp can be right next to each speaker.
Yo u should now rename the APOX 1 the APOX-SHS
Seriously, you better get some consistancey here!😉 😱 😱
I believe that Nelson Pass pointed out that you don't need a dual ganged pot to control the (balanced) output of the bride of son of zen preamp. Instead you can place the pot between the plus and minus outputs. BUT he did state that in this case the pot should be 5k, not 10. Did I get this right?
So my question is whether you can use this approach to control 2 channels of a balanced pre with one APOX 2 or one SHM?
This would cut costs (by half!) and with resistors optional, one could make a 5k variant. Maybe you can offer a 5k resistor kit.
So my question is whether you can use this approach to control 2 channels of a balanced pre with one APOX 2 or one SHM?
This would cut costs (by half!) and with resistors optional, one could make a 5k variant. Maybe you can offer a 5k resistor kit.
Apox 1 does 2 channels of "not dual ganged" but "phase shunting".
Apox-SHM does 1 channel of the exact same thing.
Apox 2 does 1 channel of an R2R variant, and cannot easily be converted to a shunt mode unit, and if it could -- I don't really see any benefits in terms of parts count. The other variants are thus closer to what you are looking for if I understand your question correctly.
As far as resistor values go, when you shunt between phases, you have twice the voltage to drop. Your impedance should then be double that of the original. If you look at on phase above the ground with a resistor to ground, another phase below ground with a resistor up, you see that if that if you remove the ground you have only one resistor, and it's value is twice that of the single units.
Petter
Apox-SHM does 1 channel of the exact same thing.
Apox 2 does 1 channel of an R2R variant, and cannot easily be converted to a shunt mode unit, and if it could -- I don't really see any benefits in terms of parts count. The other variants are thus closer to what you are looking for if I understand your question correctly.
As far as resistor values go, when you shunt between phases, you have twice the voltage to drop. Your impedance should then be double that of the original. If you look at on phase above the ground with a resistor to ground, another phase below ground with a resistor up, you see that if that if you remove the ground you have only one resistor, and it's value is twice that of the single units.
Petter
APOX-SHM layout fixed
Petter,
I fixed most of your suggestions.
Because the analog ground plane is on the same layer as the audio signals. I don't think the analog ground plane will introduce very much capacitance. (As there is very little surface area to build up a charge.) And should help guard the signals a little better than if there was no analog ground plane.
I added the bigger cap, and a place for a ferrite bead/etc...
I also seperated the ground planes a little more...
I posted a pic of the layout with the Ground planes ripped up for clarity here:
APOX-SHM
Now I must get back to the APOX-3.
-Craig Beiferman
Petter,
I fixed most of your suggestions.
Because the analog ground plane is on the same layer as the audio signals. I don't think the analog ground plane will introduce very much capacitance. (As there is very little surface area to build up a charge.) And should help guard the signals a little better than if there was no analog ground plane.
I added the bigger cap, and a place for a ferrite bead/etc...
I also seperated the ground planes a little more...
I posted a pic of the layout with the Ground planes ripped up for clarity here:
APOX-SHM
Now I must get back to the APOX-3.
-Craig Beiferman
great work Petter...you are a true Guru...now if you can only figure out how to program the clock on your vcr you`ll be set
Joe, be serious now and suggest something I actually have a chance to get right.
As far as the project goes, when Craig/Dale are doing all the hard work, everything is just so easy!
Craig, good point about ground plane. I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense when you put it like that.
Petter
As far as the project goes, when Craig/Dale are doing all the hard work, everything is just so easy!
Craig, good point about ground plane. I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense when you put it like that.
Petter
Kits are boxed up
The encoders arrived (well not exactly as planned).
Everyone that ordered encoders will be getting one each of two part numbers. A 32 detent for volume and a 16 detent for input selection. Both have switches.
The part number for the 32 is 61C11xxxxx and 61C22 for the 16.
Be careful. Do not open all bags at once. Try to keep the bags separate. Each bag has one board and parts. Some of the parts are very small and easily lost. We triple checked to make sure that all parts were included, but mistakes on both ends will happen. I am sure that all high end parts have been accounted for. Please send private emails for lost parts, but use this forum for assembly questions, since many people may have the same ones. I will add to the FAQ section, since there are some items that should be noted. I will also attempt to give a general stuffing guide. Please ask any questions before soldering as it is very difficult to desolder some of these parts.
Oh by the way, I did run out of parts just before kitting Sheldon's kit. Sorry...
😱
Just kidding
Actually, the only kits not being sent are Petter's (waiting for APOX-SHM), and Grataku (getting one in person).
Again, Craig and I wish to thank everyone for their great support and for buying an brand new kit sight unseen. I hope that everyone enjoys building and listening to it.
Best Regards,
Dale
The encoders arrived (well not exactly as planned).
Everyone that ordered encoders will be getting one each of two part numbers. A 32 detent for volume and a 16 detent for input selection. Both have switches.
The part number for the 32 is 61C11xxxxx and 61C22 for the 16.
Be careful. Do not open all bags at once. Try to keep the bags separate. Each bag has one board and parts. Some of the parts are very small and easily lost. We triple checked to make sure that all parts were included, but mistakes on both ends will happen. I am sure that all high end parts have been accounted for. Please send private emails for lost parts, but use this forum for assembly questions, since many people may have the same ones. I will add to the FAQ section, since there are some items that should be noted. I will also attempt to give a general stuffing guide. Please ask any questions before soldering as it is very difficult to desolder some of these parts.
Oh by the way, I did run out of parts just before kitting Sheldon's kit. Sorry...
😱
Just kidding
Actually, the only kits not being sent are Petter's (waiting for APOX-SHM), and Grataku (getting one in person).
Again, Craig and I wish to thank everyone for their great support and for buying an brand new kit sight unseen. I hope that everyone enjoys building and listening to it.
Best Regards,
Dale
Thanks a lot Dale and Craig! I really appreciate your efforts.
For the knobs, which are not included, have you considered the option of having them included with the IR1 kit? It seems like a difficult task of finding nice knobs for a reasonable price.
--
Brian
For the knobs, which are not included, have you considered the option of having them included with the IR1 kit? It seems like a difficult task of finding nice knobs for a reasonable price.
--
Brian
APOX-3
Hello all,
I have changed the APOX-3. (PGA2310 Based)
Please see the first attempt at a layout, and the
new schematic.
APOX-3 Update here.
P.S. I am going to the post office right after I click submit.
Sorry for the delay, but the encoder came in late.
-Craig Beiferman
Hello all,
I have changed the APOX-3. (PGA2310 Based)
Please see the first attempt at a layout, and the
new schematic.
APOX-3 Update here.
P.S. I am going to the post office right after I click submit.
Sorry for the delay, but the encoder came in late.
-Craig Beiferman
- Status
- Not open for further replies.