Nope is not just electrical energy is electrical musical synergy between different components . The subatomic electrons are traveling thru components to bring out music . It's a movement of the electrons that is the music .The electrical energy from your outlet have no music in it .
No real capacitor obbeys i = C.dv/dt always.
Real capacitors are very complex when you look in to their construction details. The fact that some ceramic capacitors can double their capacitance as their voltage is changed is proof.
On the one hand "audiophile" branded components are looked upon with suspicion because we don't trust vendors but on the other hand, it is quite reasonable to believe that better capacitors can be made. The problem is finding the ones that are actually better.
Then we have what I call a "system problem" when evaluating their sound quality. That is that the affect will be hugely dependent on what system the capacitor is tested in. If I think A Mundorf electrolytic sounds worse than an Elna Silmic II in the feedback blocking cap of my amplifier, there is no guarantee it will have the same effect in the same place in your amp or in a power supply or whatever because parts interact. So when someone says they have listened to capacitor X and it does Y to the sound, you cannot trust this to give the same result in your own system.
In the end I have to measure something myself. But as with products in general, capacitors made with low cost as a priority tend to perform worse than ones where cost is a secondary consideration. You just can't expect superior quality from a $ or £ store.
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Outlets have music... It's a very boring 60Hz with some high frequency noise. Better than modern pop.
"Electrical musical synergy", was that a Laurie Anderson tune from the mid '80s?
Your "audio specific" electronic theory is intriguing. Could it be the electrons in our equipment have a quantum link to those in the atoms of musical instruments? Are capacitors the gateway for electromusical emminations from the ethereal plane?
very good analogy parts always interact and there are so many parts interconnected and even the best engineers can't predict the outcome .
Nothing at all is happening at the same time since hearing music involves memory and anticipation. It is 100% a construct of your consciousness
Yes, competent enginners and designers are focused on trivial matters such as linearity, reliability, stability, slew rate limiting, preventing oscillation, P.S.R.R., etc...
Aspects of audio equipment that have nothing to do with how it sounds.
So, when are you going to release your line of superior audio components? Products in the great tradition of A.S. Rappaport and MoFi's "Ultra" series.
The statement "can double their capacitance as their voltage is changed" is in need of quantification.
For those interested in examining the relationship, refer to the section entitled 'AC Voltage Effect on Capacitance' in the pdf below. Figure 16 shows no more than a +12% change in capacitance over a 0.01V to 10.0 V AC signal range.
http://www.kemet.com/Lists/Technica...capacitor drops to 37 uF- 30 uF- or lower.pdf
That is simply stating the obvious and, bewilderingly, makes no reference to capacitors whatsoever!
Thanks traderbam - I have previously looked at the Murata FAQ information which refers to DC bias conditions.
What I want to quantify is by how much an alternating voltage has to change in order to double the capacitance of a capacitor.
This is to help me understand the mechanism by which capacitors affect alternating voltage music signals and hence perceived sound quality.
What I want to quantify is by how much an alternating voltage has to change in order to double the capacitance of a capacitor.
This is to help me understand the mechanism by which capacitors affect alternating voltage music signals and hence perceived sound quality.
Hi robert2017,
You really need to learn about test and measuring equipment!
Normal electronic calibration labs are using instruments that resolve far better still and are traceable to international standards. We use these instruments and primary standards to align equipment normally better than you would find in an audio engineering area. I worked in such a lab (and calibrated my own equipment to those national standards. Even a few degrees of temperature away from the temperature instruments were calibrated at can affect their indications. Temperature is another variable we calibrated instruments to and our own standard records the temperature on all calibration certificates.
Let me just say that when you listen to come to an assessment on a pice of gear, or components, you have so many uncontrolled variables that you can't state with any degree of certainty what the performance is actually like. In fact my LCR meter (HP 4263A, economy model) does test capacitors that agrees with listening tests. The folks don't like the fact that we can these days measure "goodness".
The industry has progressed well beyond what could be done in the 70's or 80's. Advancements are made every few years that allows a measurement to exceed a human's abilities. The gap widens every few years as we pull beyond the ability to hear. The notion that you can hear better than can be measured is romantic enough I guess. But against decent equipment and a good operator has been bested.
If you are serious about selecting the best components and improving audio equipment, like me and many others, you'll have to invest in some good equipment. It isn't cheap but is necessary for you to stay current in your abilities. Your listening tests will be a sanity check to make sure your measurements are correct. I use both methods, and they have to agree in order for me to accept an outcome from testing parts or equipment.
Variables, you have to control them in order to be able to make any sort of conclusion. You aren't doing that currently.
-Chris
You really need to learn about test and measuring equipment!
I am lucky enough to have bought an RTX6001 audio analyser. It will measure frequencies just shy of 96 KHz, but the real trick is the noise floor that averages to -140 dBV (a little lower) over most of it's range. It resolves the noise floor as a frequency spectrum or a waveform, which ever you desire. After designing equipment for over 30 years, I know what to look for. This software it runs with will also spit out the THD and IMD numbers combined with the frequency spectrum that tells you a great deal more than an instrument that only gives you a number. Before this, I was using an HP 339A and sending the output into an oscilloscope and spectrum analyser. Even then the performance of some equipment was lost in the noise of these instruments. The RTX resolves everything I couldn't see before. I can now see where some circuits had problems, some which easily passed listening tests by individuals with a long history of assessing audio equipment by ear.
Normal electronic calibration labs are using instruments that resolve far better still and are traceable to international standards. We use these instruments and primary standards to align equipment normally better than you would find in an audio engineering area. I worked in such a lab (and calibrated my own equipment to those national standards. Even a few degrees of temperature away from the temperature instruments were calibrated at can affect their indications. Temperature is another variable we calibrated instruments to and our own standard records the temperature on all calibration certificates.
Let me just say that when you listen to come to an assessment on a pice of gear, or components, you have so many uncontrolled variables that you can't state with any degree of certainty what the performance is actually like. In fact my LCR meter (HP 4263A, economy model) does test capacitors that agrees with listening tests. The folks don't like the fact that we can these days measure "goodness".
The industry has progressed well beyond what could be done in the 70's or 80's. Advancements are made every few years that allows a measurement to exceed a human's abilities. The gap widens every few years as we pull beyond the ability to hear. The notion that you can hear better than can be measured is romantic enough I guess. But against decent equipment and a good operator has been bested.
If you are serious about selecting the best components and improving audio equipment, like me and many others, you'll have to invest in some good equipment. It isn't cheap but is necessary for you to stay current in your abilities. Your listening tests will be a sanity check to make sure your measurements are correct. I use both methods, and they have to agree in order for me to accept an outcome from testing parts or equipment.
Variables, you have to control them in order to be able to make any sort of conclusion. You aren't doing that currently.
-Chris
You certainly won't hear violins, but for a short time you will hear an extremely loud 50Hz (or 60Hz) tone! 🙂if is religion just stick your speakers wires in your outlet and see how it sounds
Hi robert2017,
It's a religion in as much as proponents refuse to even look at the real physics behind the signals in the cables. The sound is an AC signal with a mean voltage of zero volts (no DC bias). That means that the energy that flows one way reverses its direction. Once per cycle if it is a sine wave. Therefore any directionality in a cable would result in rectification. This clearly doesn't happen, so the entire idea that a cable can be directional is an unfortunate hoax that sucked believers in. There is an entire alternate universe that exists in their minds that suspends the laws of physics in order to uphold the various claims made.
The other thing that makes these beliefs much like a religion is that any supporting science used has been perverted or mis-quoted from the actual meaning for which there is reproducible evidence. Either that, or the #1 fallback claims are either "it's impossible to measure the detail we can hear (recently added with what the signal is , is partially made up in our head)", or my favorite "This could be true, we can't prove this can't happen". The first is that the entire construct is made up in their head, and for the second , yes, we can prove it can't happen. That's what all the big money science has shown over time.
-Chris
It's a religion in as much as proponents refuse to even look at the real physics behind the signals in the cables. The sound is an AC signal with a mean voltage of zero volts (no DC bias). That means that the energy that flows one way reverses its direction. Once per cycle if it is a sine wave. Therefore any directionality in a cable would result in rectification. This clearly doesn't happen, so the entire idea that a cable can be directional is an unfortunate hoax that sucked believers in. There is an entire alternate universe that exists in their minds that suspends the laws of physics in order to uphold the various claims made.
The other thing that makes these beliefs much like a religion is that any supporting science used has been perverted or mis-quoted from the actual meaning for which there is reproducible evidence. Either that, or the #1 fallback claims are either "it's impossible to measure the detail we can hear (recently added with what the signal is , is partially made up in our head)", or my favorite "This could be true, we can't prove this can't happen". The first is that the entire construct is made up in their head, and for the second , yes, we can prove it can't happen. That's what all the big money science has shown over time.
Bose did that with the 901 speakers. They really did, look it up.
-Chris
Chris, the power flows from the amplifier into the loudspeaker. It is the voltage and current that reverse in AC power. Both positive then the power is positive. Both negative, same thing.
Minor point but a bit important.
Minor point but a bit important.
I suggest we go to the core problem: you *unplug* your amplifier from mains and do nothing else.
In a few seconds music will DISAPPEAR.
ZERO ..... ZILCH.
So ... where was Music coming from?
Can you answer that?
WHY did it disappear then?
Don´t tell me it was coming from the Preamp or anothar source: it keeps working as before and yet WE HEAR NOTHING ANY MORE.
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