I have skimmed through the 178 pages with interest.
I was looking and the Q400 for a while and turned it down because of the lack of differential in/out.
Then I have seen that the Q401 is about to come out, which seems an exciting news as it has better performance than its predecessor and also has balance features.
Nevertheless they say it comes out before end of the year, but yet there is no shipping date...so does anybody here have more information about this?
There is one thing that concerns be about this solution and it is the output offset of 3-4mV. Why couldn't they have a servo controller to take the offset down?
I was looking and the Q400 for a while and turned it down because of the lack of differential in/out.
Then I have seen that the Q401 is about to come out, which seems an exciting news as it has better performance than its predecessor and also has balance features.
Nevertheless they say it comes out before end of the year, but yet there is no shipping date...so does anybody here have more information about this?
There is one thing that concerns be about this solution and it is the output offset of 3-4mV. Why couldn't they have a servo controller to take the offset down?
Cost is why there is no servo. Every feature shoves the retail price up. The QA401 is like any product. The price target is established first then the design.
ok, but the tool is pretty useless for serious measurements if there is offset at the output, especially when measuring high gain circuits.
Servo control is about $2 in parts even with a margin of 10:1 this would only add $20 to the final price.
The Q401, if I understand correctly, is more expensive than its predecessor then why not adding a servo controller on this? I think this is a sloppy decision from who designed it to overlook at the offset's aspect
Anyway, any word on when it will be for sale and at what price point?
Servo control is about $2 in parts even with a margin of 10:1 this would only add $20 to the final price.
The Q401, if I understand correctly, is more expensive than its predecessor then why not adding a servo controller on this? I think this is a sloppy decision from who designed it to overlook at the offset's aspect
Anyway, any word on when it will be for sale and at what price point?
I'd pay more than QA is asking for something that is aiming at being an "AP-lite", similar performance but less features. Too bad no one is making such a thing 🙁.
I totally agree with you. They are either dirt cheap like QA100 or extremely overpriced like AP.
They could have made an interface computer based for 1k that performs good enough with reliable input interface and consistent measuring system.
Instead they keep pinching the dollar to rebrand something that can already be had using sound card and PC program.
I would say if someone goes beyond that level of things and makes something better, I don't see why it should be limited to a ridiculous 200usd and then have severe flows of reliability consistency, important feature missed/left out.
Don't want to bash and they probably make a lot of money by making something so cost effective, which is great. However like you, I do too think they would do a great thing by making something worth considering for someone is serious about building audio gear and yet doesn't have 10-15k to spare to buy an AP system.
They could have made an interface computer based for 1k that performs good enough with reliable input interface and consistent measuring system.
Instead they keep pinching the dollar to rebrand something that can already be had using sound card and PC program.
I would say if someone goes beyond that level of things and makes something better, I don't see why it should be limited to a ridiculous 200usd and then have severe flows of reliability consistency, important feature missed/left out.
Don't want to bash and they probably make a lot of money by making something so cost effective, which is great. However like you, I do too think they would do a great thing by making something worth considering for someone is serious about building audio gear and yet doesn't have 10-15k to spare to buy an AP system.
I think the offset voltage issue is a little overblown. Many AV products can have that much offset at the line out. If you are using a QA400 or QA401 for measuring a high gain circuit you will need to attenuate the output since the digital attenuator has a limited range and you always want to be near the top of the range.
I think what you are after imatches the spec of the QA405 with its more comprehensive attenuators etc. I thought Matt's target price was not realistic. If you want a cheaper APx then The Prizm or the Stanford Research are valid choices. There will inevitably be big differences and its not just greedy profit margins.
Adding an external power supply to a product, even if the supply is fully approved still brings a host of issues to sort out. Everything from leakage to noise will be a significant challenge. I would seriously look at USB C for the next gen product since you can supposedly get 100W through that connector.
If you have a need and the tool will work holding out doesn't move your projects forward or give the vendor incentive to make a better one. As for differential I/O I provided a design for the QA400 that worked. I started on a gen 2 and shared what I had. I have been too busy with work to get back to the project but its all there. Adding a DC offset trim would be pretty easy to figure out and a good value addition. For my work above I would make an attenuator cable to go to a phono or mike input as part of the package.
I think what you are after imatches the spec of the QA405 with its more comprehensive attenuators etc. I thought Matt's target price was not realistic. If you want a cheaper APx then The Prizm or the Stanford Research are valid choices. There will inevitably be big differences and its not just greedy profit margins.
Adding an external power supply to a product, even if the supply is fully approved still brings a host of issues to sort out. Everything from leakage to noise will be a significant challenge. I would seriously look at USB C for the next gen product since you can supposedly get 100W through that connector.
If you have a need and the tool will work holding out doesn't move your projects forward or give the vendor incentive to make a better one. As for differential I/O I provided a design for the QA400 that worked. I started on a gen 2 and shared what I had. I have been too busy with work to get back to the project but its all there. Adding a DC offset trim would be pretty easy to figure out and a good value addition. For my work above I would make an attenuator cable to go to a phono or mike input as part of the package.
1staudio,
First of all I have read your posts and I find your work to be really valuable.
You certainly have very high level of knowledge, my kudos to you.
When you say Matt's price was unrealistic, are you saying that he set it too low for the Q400? If so, I absolutely agree with you.
Unfortunately from what I have read, Q405 was ditched in favor of the Q401 once again, for price reasons, because Q405 was going to be too expensive.
To understand clear, is the offset not only at the output of the analyzer but also at the input?
I would be less concerned with the offset at the input especially if small, I am more concerned with the offset with the gen out.
Regarding your suggestion as to alternatives to AP, maybe I am not looking at the right product, but your suggestions are still in the neighbor of 6-10K.
I am looking for a system sub 2K. Nowadays with the digital technology, at least in my opinion, I would think this should not be an unrealistic pricepoint.
Conversely, I do think that the 10-15K price for the AP and the other competitors are overpriced for simple audio applications.
Any input for you to possible solutions on that price point are really welcome and if the new Q40X will be a nice step up from the Q401 then great...
First of all I have read your posts and I find your work to be really valuable.
You certainly have very high level of knowledge, my kudos to you.
When you say Matt's price was unrealistic, are you saying that he set it too low for the Q400? If so, I absolutely agree with you.
Unfortunately from what I have read, Q405 was ditched in favor of the Q401 once again, for price reasons, because Q405 was going to be too expensive.
To understand clear, is the offset not only at the output of the analyzer but also at the input?
I would be less concerned with the offset at the input especially if small, I am more concerned with the offset with the gen out.
Regarding your suggestion as to alternatives to AP, maybe I am not looking at the right product, but your suggestions are still in the neighbor of 6-10K.
I am looking for a system sub 2K. Nowadays with the digital technology, at least in my opinion, I would think this should not be an unrealistic pricepoint.
Conversely, I do think that the 10-15K price for the AP and the other competitors are overpriced for simple audio applications.
Any input for you to possible solutions on that price point are really welcome and if the new Q40X will be a nice step up from the Q401 then great...
Actually I was referring to the QA405. I think the value is quite high and the ability to get a good measurement without a lot of fumbling with either software or hardware is great.
The QA405 was going to have the full array of input ranging etc. That translates into a lot of relays (expensive and power hungry). I could not see a road to a product at $500 that would have a positive net profit.
QuantAsylum seems to be a small operation with a few people in the USA and a manufacturing partner in China. AP has a staff of hardware and software engineers. Prizm is part of a larger recording gear company. Stanford Research, R&S, Keysight etc. are quite large companies with deep resources and large overheads. None of these companies generate profits like an Apple and the audio products of the bigger companies don't necessarily pay for themselves but they exist to fill in a product line or for other strategic reasons. I think what QuantAsylum has done with the limited resources is fantastic. I would get one of their scopes but I already have 9 or 10 scopes.
I think the approach I outlined at the beginning of this thread (dedicated interface cables) is the most cost effective way to get value from one of these devices.
The QA405 was going to have the full array of input ranging etc. That translates into a lot of relays (expensive and power hungry). I could not see a road to a product at $500 that would have a positive net profit.
QuantAsylum seems to be a small operation with a few people in the USA and a manufacturing partner in China. AP has a staff of hardware and software engineers. Prizm is part of a larger recording gear company. Stanford Research, R&S, Keysight etc. are quite large companies with deep resources and large overheads. None of these companies generate profits like an Apple and the audio products of the bigger companies don't necessarily pay for themselves but they exist to fill in a product line or for other strategic reasons. I think what QuantAsylum has done with the limited resources is fantastic. I would get one of their scopes but I already have 9 or 10 scopes.
I think the approach I outlined at the beginning of this thread (dedicated interface cables) is the most cost effective way to get value from one of these devices.
I wouldn't see why a $800-1k product that has great features would not bring profit!?? There would be more people buying it. Lot of people who spend 200 they will spend 800 to get something better and who doesn't want to spend 1k can still purchase for 200 Q400.
It's not like they outta have only one audio analyzer.
They can have a low price and a higher price. After all increasing catalog can only increases profits.
The 405 was abandoned and instead they make something just a little bit better than the existing 401 to keep similar price point.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand and agree with you on the resources and size of company and I think they have done a lot with their limited capabilities.
Just if I had to give my feedback, I would say to them to expand their product range with a higher quality analyzer. There are so many people who buy old equipment on eBay at the outrageous price of 800-1000 or more which they would really buy something smaller and with similar/better performance.
Just my opinion.
I am in need of a digital scope and was thinking about their scope, the only thing I am concerned is the small sample rate they offer...
It's not like they outta have only one audio analyzer.
They can have a low price and a higher price. After all increasing catalog can only increases profits.
The 405 was abandoned and instead they make something just a little bit better than the existing 401 to keep similar price point.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand and agree with you on the resources and size of company and I think they have done a lot with their limited capabilities.
Just if I had to give my feedback, I would say to them to expand their product range with a higher quality analyzer. There are so many people who buy old equipment on eBay at the outrageous price of 800-1000 or more which they would really buy something smaller and with similar/better performance.
Just my opinion.
I am in need of a digital scope and was thinking about their scope, the only thing I am concerned is the small sample rate they offer...
Product like this probably needs a 45% to 60% gross profit margin to bring anything to the bottom line.
Stefanoo, sure - in the audiophile industry it have worked as you say. Give them enough arguments and they buy at whatever pricelevel. Now in this niche there is a risk that the arguments might be scrutinized. So QA won't deliver before they are ready for it. Meanwhile for us lays the path of tweaking in the functions we desire.
Regards
Regards
The tool I am talking about is not for audiophiles not for hobbyists who build the little DIY kit, for which the Q400 perfectly fits the bill, but I am referring to professionals who do it at home too and they can't afford the 15k audio precision they probably have at work!
1-2k price range is the sweet spot for these people, while still retaining all the others with Q400.
Obviously I can't debate much on this, it is what it is! They probably not going to make something like that anyway.
So for my own purpose I find more reliable to use sound technology 1700 and use the monitor with external sound card and spectra plus for spectral analysis.
If I will find a suitable tool I will be very happy to replace my bulky home setup!
With this regard, if anybody here has any recommendations for a great tool in that price range please let me know!
Thanks!
1-2k price range is the sweet spot for these people, while still retaining all the others with Q400.
Obviously I can't debate much on this, it is what it is! They probably not going to make something like that anyway.
So for my own purpose I find more reliable to use sound technology 1700 and use the monitor with external sound card and spectra plus for spectral analysis.
If I will find a suitable tool I will be very happy to replace my bulky home setup!
With this regard, if anybody here has any recommendations for a great tool in that price range please let me know!
Thanks!
There are many industrial test equipment (used) in your price range. See eBay. I have bought several analyzers from eBay and enjoy them a lot... though they are bulky and sometimes heavy. Lab/bench use. The QA400 is also small and portable... excellent for field use with a tablet/portable computer.
THx-RNMarsh
THx-RNMarsh
What we need is a good front attenuator/instrumental amplifier and communication between the frontend and our favourite software with all the bells and whistles we can dream of 😀. The actual ad/da should just be kept at their best range and leve the rest to the frontend. Now start with our favorite "soundcards" and design a new pmillet frontend that autoranges the levels both at the DUT and on the screen.
Regards
Regards
Right, that's the idea, but if a company doesn't make it, then who has the time to do that.
If any company offers that, which is simple slick and effective, please let me know.
I actually feel AP is pretty much that with some more bells and whistles but at a price of 15k!
Too bad QA did not feel that such a product would have been valuable to them and customers!
Yes I already have bulky analyzes the point was to have something less space consuming and high maintainance/service.
Yes for field application Q400 is good but so is a sound card and a SW which tends to same results and sometimes better.
I actually think that Jan Didden was working on a auto-ranging front-end at one point in time. I don't remember the status.
Jan, are you still reading here?
Mogens
Jan, are you still reading here?
Mogens
Hi David,
To be honest, I can't remember. I hope Jan will give an update.
Btw. I got an Shibasoku 725C I plan to modify to your specification. Thanks.
Mogens
To be honest, I can't remember. I hope Jan will give an update.
Btw. I got an Shibasoku 725C I plan to modify to your specification. Thanks.
Mogens