QuantAsylum QA400 and QA401

1audio

Member
Paid Member
2004-03-24 5:16 am
SF Bay Area
The QA401 is now available and it has differential inputs and complete isolation from the host PC. Starting around here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/231401-quantasylum-qa400-186.html#post4657822 is discussion of the QA401 and some measurements. With the new version my efforts on a balanced out and differential in become less important but they still may help someone.

Several of us have been playing with these for a few months now. They are an inexpensive "sound card" USB capture device that has been optimized for audio measurement. More here: QA400 Audio Analyzer

The performance is quite good. More than adequate for any normal audio measurement need and the software works well, avoiding the usual problems with the Windows sound engines. It provides many good measurements as is and hopefully will get extended by others for specific tasks.

The one problem is that the I/O is single ended and limited to around 1V. This is fine for mobile audio stuff like iPods but not enough to work well with more conventional audio with 2V+ levels and amps good for much more.

In my prodigious free time (as in none) I worked out a design for an interface card to match the QA400 to real world audio devices. Its similar to Pete Millet's interface Soundcard Interface but not as refined or pretty. It also is two channel and doesn't have the metering, since the QA400 is quite accurate.

For the I/O I realized that making interface cables with appropriate connectors would resolve several issues. I have something like 5 pounds of adapters to go from anything to anything, however most end up as part of a link from one connection type to another. Usually for me its a dual BNC to Banana adapters to single BNC to dual banana to clip leads. Pretty dumb. My idea (borrowed from the Praxis interface PRAXIS INFORMATION ) is to make cables that have the appropriate adapter as part of the cable. The I/O is 3.5MM stereo connectors. This would be a stereo 3.5mm connector used as a differential interface terminated into an RCA for line level or two bananas for spoealer level, or XLR for balanced interfaces. Then the cable can have attenuators built into it eliminating the need for overload protection required for a dual banana type input.

I decided to steal power from the USB interface and make it a pass through. I'm using a DC-DC converter to get enough voltage to get 10V RMS out. I won't know until its built if this worked so easily.

The IC's will all be socketed on mine so they are easy to replace when they get fried.

I got my assistant Tim to do most of the heavy lifting on the layout. We have checked it and have sent it out for fab. We should have PCB's and parts in a week to build and test the design.

I am attaching the schematic and layout, all in Expresspcb ExpressPCB - Free PCB layout software - Low cost circuit boards - Top quality PCB manufacturing since I feel its very appropriate to this project. Please feel free to point out the dumb mistakes I made and improve it. The software is free from them.

PLEASE DON'T ORDER ANYTHING UNTIL I KNOW IT WORKS! I will post a revised version after I have made the first ones work.
 

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31697B

Disabled Account
2012-05-19 12:53 am
I too am looking forward to knowing how well it works and what thd and noise it may contribute to testing a DUT. The convenience and usefulness is very much needed to make everything more like P-n-Play operation.

I am still upset with the USB not working and tired of fooling with it. I'll have the company people tell me what to do to make it work right. I have 3 computers and it doesnt work on any of them. I dont have th time nor patience for usb issues. Software should be fixed to work better. The unit itself and the help files etc are very good.

Thx-RNMarsh
 

paba

Member
2004-09-15 6:55 pm
Montreal
Hello,

between this PCB and the QA400 it would probably be best to have BNC. BNC to BNC makes sense no? Besides the unit comes with two BNC to BNC cables...so they would naturally be used for this purpose...Now on the input side of this interface jig, I guess that is more open to choice/application... RCA comes to mind for my case. (so I'll probably make that change on mine).

nice contribution.

/paba
 

1audio

Member
Paid Member
2004-03-24 5:16 am
SF Bay Area
I thought so at first. Then I realized that for the link to the QA400, the ground is common, the signals are low impedance and its a lot of connections and the BNC cables pull the box off the table.

For the inputs if you use an RCA and connect to an amp you will fry the chips. An RCA is also unbalanced. My choice was to make a cable with a 3.5mm minijact to RCA with a separate ground connection the chassis to get the best SNR for connection to line level signals. For an amp, making a minijack to clipleads or banana connectors with an internal voltage divider is a pretty clean way to make sure you don't fry the internals.

Also there isn't much real estate on the board for bigger connectors.

However you are free to revise the system to suit. But you should wait until I find out what doesn't work so you won't be repeating those mistakes.
 

paba

Member
2004-09-15 6:55 pm
Montreal
I thought so at first. Then I realized that for the link to the QA400, the ground is common, the signals are low impedance

yes so that is a good point.

Myself, I know better then to connect audio amp straight to anything but speakers... or a proper dummy load....but good to mention for a wider audience.

I would use the QA400 for source components and most have 2V RMS coming out the output RCAs so even that I would need an interface before the QA400.

cheers
paba
 
Demian,

would you mind to post the schematic as some graphic file,
to have a look at it without installing software ?
Looks (or rather reads currently ;-) ) like a very useful project,
thanks for sharing it.
Please don't think I am the least bit ungrateful, lazy, or nit-picking . . . but I support this request.

I know it takes a little extra work to export a CAD file in another format, and usually requires some thought to select the best set of options for the translation. (Thinking makes my brain hurt!) However, *.pdf, *.jpg, and *.png, file formats are more accessible to the Forum community than native CAD formats. You will almost certainly reap the benefits of more reviewers' comments on your work. (Even *.html, *.ps, or Gerber-format files are more likely to be reviewed than native CAD files.)

{My machine has 4 different installed programs that use the " *.sch " file extension, and at least that many using " *.pcb ". Two of them are commercial-grade, professional, CAD/EDA programs that were installed for compatibility with employers' software. (I.e., if I don't use the program specified by the client then he finds somebody else to do the job.) On a good day it is annoying to keep track of which project uses which program . . . and then there are not-so-good days.

I will not give any opinions about the capabilities or quality of the ExpressPCB software compared to what I currently use, nor do I have any prejudice against ExpressPCB per se and would learn their software if requested (I am currently out of work) - but none of my recent employers have requested that I work in ExpressPCB. I am not inclined to install yet another program using those file extensions. I don't want to risk upsetting my registry and file-type definitions. At best, I envision wading through a bunch of installation options in hopes of preventing the new software from changing my current work environment; at worst, the new installation will simply make the changes without even telling me what has been changed.}

Dale
 

1audio

Member
Paid Member
2004-03-24 5:16 am
SF Bay Area
No real problem. I hope the two conversion stages don't degrade the content too much.

I suspect a lot of DIY'ers use expressPCB because its simple and cheap. I would not use it for a major project but this is little more of a "G job".
 

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Thanks for the drawings. Yeah, the circuit looks a lot like Pete Millett's sound card interface without the metering, protection, and range-switching circuitry. Since this will be used with a high-performance measuring instrument there will undoubtedly be some discussion about the choice of active devices - e.g., INA134/DRV134 versus offerings from THAT Corp ( http://www.thatcorp.com/THAT_IC_Selection_Guide.shtml ), etc.

Looks like there may be a typo on the power converter chip's part number. I think you meant to call out the " DSP1N5D12 " sted " DSP1N5D17 ".

Dale
 

1audio

Member
Paid Member
2004-03-24 5:16 am
SF Bay Area
The THAT parts (impossible name, just try to Google them) are interchangeable with the TI (and I think (ADI) parts. The receiver has the caps for the THAT but they aren't used in the other devices. I have samples of TI and THAT to try. I'll see what works.

The 17V is intentional. I need enough voltage to get 10V RMS out. I'll know very soon if it works and what the downsides are. The converter is expensive so lets see if it works right for this.
 
. . . The 17V is intentional. I need enough voltage to get 10V RMS out. . . .
That makes sense. I was confused because +/-17V is a rather unusual choice for supply rails, and the other two diagrams showed +/-12V rails. I'm sure you have verified all of the absolute max voltage ratings - there are a few "full voltage" IC's where +/-17V rails are right at, or over, the rated capability.

Dale
 

1audio

Member
Paid Member
2004-03-24 5:16 am
SF Bay Area
That makes sense. I was confused because +/-17V is a rather unusual choice for supply rails, and the other two diagrams showed +/-12V rails. I'm sure you have verified all of the absolute max voltage ratings - there are a few "full voltage" IC's where +/-17V rails are right at, or over, the rated capability.

Dale

Me being lazy with the cad software. 12V rails are included so i hijacked them. the +/-17V supply is a stock part. i will be going though datasheets some more. Many pro market IC's run on +/- 24V.
 
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