Maybe ...What I did notice is that by not saying no directly, wouldn't that imply pin compatibility ? Does not look to be pin compatible and the voltage are not the same. So atm, I would say no.
NAD junk... so the M22 is crap ?
I was not able to "prove" it yet, lacking complete documentation, but the pinout of the NC500 and 1ET400A seem to be compatible. The main voltage is different, +-85V for the Hypex (can go up to 100) and +-65 for the Purifi.
The NAD NC400 unit uses the same formfactor as the NC500 but is slightly less powerful than the NC500 (8-4 ohm) but higher rating at 2 ohm on the NC400.
The idea is a M22 clone, with some changes to the resistors and caps etc (brand, not values). Nothing major. If the Purifi module is better than NC400/500 and it is a drop in replacement, then that would be an okay idea to me.
The idea is a M22 clone, with some changes to the resistors and caps etc (brand, not values). Nothing major. If the Purifi module is better than NC400/500 and it is a drop in replacement, then that would be an okay idea to me.
No, NAD is not junk, but just expensive industry standard. Comparable quality, without the interesting (?) design, in a PA amp, is a fraction of the price tag.
There is no sense in making a copy of a M22. Any one good in DIYS can build something as good using openly available parts/ modules.
So don´t try to copy it, build your own amp that fit´s into your installation.
There is no sense in making a copy of a M22. Any one good in DIYS can build something as good using openly available parts/ modules.
So don´t try to copy it, build your own amp that fit´s into your installation.
I don't know of any readily available diy class D which is on par with the NC400/NC500. One could ofc buy the Purifi products (EVAL1 kit + PSU) and call it a day.
Or buy from Nord or Minerva. The Nord One REV D Input Buffer Board is available, so that one and 1ET400A board + power ... many options.
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There are, if you ignore sales hype, very good DIYS modules on the market, that no one will identify as better or worse in a neutral audition. Anything in their implementation done right, off course.
A "better amp" is in many cases only the way it is presented.
Many high end amps are only french fries served on a golden plate, bought at BurgerKing or Wendy´s.
A "better amp" is in many cases only the way it is presented.
Many high end amps are only french fries served on a golden plate, bought at BurgerKing or Wendy´s.
ICE power has many interesting options. Even as they do not sell to DIYS, you get most products. They may be a few years old, but are still some of the best. Some others have been mentioned in this thread, like purifi. Pascal, ncore or even an ucD are all very good amps. Some even use Irdaudamp7s or clones like the l15d line from notorious amp composer ljm. Combined with the right peripheral components, they are not bad at all. Anaview seems to have gone south.
It mostly depends on where you live (buy), order and how much you want to spent. Also, whose marketing touches your nerve...
Then comes the unknown factor, how much money, time and know how you can invest into your construct. Time for finding your best implementation might be most important. You are the constructor! Nothing bad in looking into commercial high end, how the big names decorate cheap industry modules, do power supplies and run wires.
Some amps need an input buffer for best performance. Depending on your whole system, this may be discrete, op-amped or transformer based. Tubes are another exotic option, if you think the red glow of wasted energy gives a warm sound, for example.
Another playground is the power supply, basically SMPS or a linear transformer. Both may give different end results. IMO that is one important place where you may win or loose. The auxiliary voltages are very important too.
Buying the most hyped (and expensive) amp module does not give you a guarantee for the best sound ever. You can do anything right except for some small detail and loose the final edge in sound quality. Which may degrade your high end construction to average quality of a good 200€ PA amp. Which today are often ridiculous cheap and good, by the way.
Amps have come a long way in the last 40 years. D-amps sound good, but not better than some high end A and A/B amps that are decades old. The huge evolution is power consumption and low production cost.
How to build a perfect amp has been no secret for decades, some constructions that may be 30 years or even older will sound as good as the very best D-amps around today. Sony had a fine Mos-Fet D-amp in the 70´s.
The huge differences in subjective, "heard" sound quality between good amps, is mostly not discovered in blind A-B tests. They come. if real, from different conditions. A very bad idea for example, is to use amps in an active loudspeaker and judge their quality. Without a passive x-over, all amps have very good working conditions. They might sound much better than connected to a passive, high end speaker, which has a complicated L, C and R network. With horn loaded speakers a weak amp may sound fantastic, while it´s sound collapses on small, expensive 2-way monitor.
Take all these reports of "huge" differences with a large spoon of salt. If you read the news, of course, the newest module thrown on the market, is much, much better than anything else. Even as last years model from the same company was announced as the 100% perfect, "wire with amplification" that could not be improved by anything... Just like all the years before.
It mostly depends on where you live (buy), order and how much you want to spent. Also, whose marketing touches your nerve...
Then comes the unknown factor, how much money, time and know how you can invest into your construct. Time for finding your best implementation might be most important. You are the constructor! Nothing bad in looking into commercial high end, how the big names decorate cheap industry modules, do power supplies and run wires.
Some amps need an input buffer for best performance. Depending on your whole system, this may be discrete, op-amped or transformer based. Tubes are another exotic option, if you think the red glow of wasted energy gives a warm sound, for example.
Another playground is the power supply, basically SMPS or a linear transformer. Both may give different end results. IMO that is one important place where you may win or loose. The auxiliary voltages are very important too.
Buying the most hyped (and expensive) amp module does not give you a guarantee for the best sound ever. You can do anything right except for some small detail and loose the final edge in sound quality. Which may degrade your high end construction to average quality of a good 200€ PA amp. Which today are often ridiculous cheap and good, by the way.
Amps have come a long way in the last 40 years. D-amps sound good, but not better than some high end A and A/B amps that are decades old. The huge evolution is power consumption and low production cost.
How to build a perfect amp has been no secret for decades, some constructions that may be 30 years or even older will sound as good as the very best D-amps around today. Sony had a fine Mos-Fet D-amp in the 70´s.
The huge differences in subjective, "heard" sound quality between good amps, is mostly not discovered in blind A-B tests. They come. if real, from different conditions. A very bad idea for example, is to use amps in an active loudspeaker and judge their quality. Without a passive x-over, all amps have very good working conditions. They might sound much better than connected to a passive, high end speaker, which has a complicated L, C and R network. With horn loaded speakers a weak amp may sound fantastic, while it´s sound collapses on small, expensive 2-way monitor.
Take all these reports of "huge" differences with a large spoon of salt. If you read the news, of course, the newest module thrown on the market, is much, much better than anything else. Even as last years model from the same company was announced as the 100% perfect, "wire with amplification" that could not be improved by anything... Just like all the years before.
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I can use an example here. I was listening to PMC Twenty5.24 (loudspeaker) first on a class D (I think that one was from Norma) and then on a class AB - the class D sounded flat with little to no soundstage. The class AB brought it back. A noticeable difference. But that class D was not NCore, and regarding NCore, I experienced that via NAD C388 together with B&W 804D3, sounded okay atm, but the room had issues.
I can't extrapolate much useful info from does tests due to the amps and loudspeakers being listened to in different environments with time apart and we know memory is a fragile thing.
But I definitely want to experience NCore or Purifi in a better way and perhaps compare them to some of the class A and class AB available via diya such as the UDNeSS version of the Firstwatt J2 and the Honeybadger. That should give me plenty of comparisons.
I can't extrapolate much useful info from does tests due to the amps and loudspeakers being listened to in different environments with time apart and we know memory is a fragile thing.
But I definitely want to experience NCore or Purifi in a better way and perhaps compare them to some of the class A and class AB available via diya such as the UDNeSS version of the Firstwatt J2 and the Honeybadger. That should give me plenty of comparisons.
Most of the nc500 kit e.g. Nord etc seem to want to put their fingerprint by "tuning" the input buffer to something they "like". Introducing discrete OP-amps with a "sound" etc. Just so that you are aware of that. Maybe you want a transparent amp and these might not be the best choice in that case...
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Hi!
I just discovered this very interesting thread. I'm not very knowledgeable in electronics but i like so much to do things by myself ;-), so trying to understand what modules to put together in the most propoer way i can.
I'm currently working on a dac/amp box with the Purifi dual mono kit. Don't know yet what the dac will be; soekris 1941 or ak4499 (if i can find a reliable/qualitative module source)?
Regarding the power supply, i was considering the hypex smps3kA400. I know it looks oversized... Do you think it's ok or stupid? Don't be shy ;-)
Shall i consider the Cresnet power supply that id mentionned in this thread? I visited their website, but i could not find any tech data...?
Also, my plan is to directly connect (full balanced) amp and dac. Good idea? Gain and/or other issue?
I was told it's ok, it'll work. Well, if this means i'll get sound, then i know. I would like to do things the proper way.
I read about the proposal to develop an open diy buffer board. That is a wonderful idea! I dream of such a board where i can choose my voltage regulators, opamps, gain level, ...
Thanks!
Luc
I just discovered this very interesting thread. I'm not very knowledgeable in electronics but i like so much to do things by myself ;-), so trying to understand what modules to put together in the most propoer way i can.
I'm currently working on a dac/amp box with the Purifi dual mono kit. Don't know yet what the dac will be; soekris 1941 or ak4499 (if i can find a reliable/qualitative module source)?
Regarding the power supply, i was considering the hypex smps3kA400. I know it looks oversized... Do you think it's ok or stupid? Don't be shy ;-)
Shall i consider the Cresnet power supply that id mentionned in this thread? I visited their website, but i could not find any tech data...?
Also, my plan is to directly connect (full balanced) amp and dac. Good idea? Gain and/or other issue?
I was told it's ok, it'll work. Well, if this means i'll get sound, then i know. I would like to do things the proper way.
I read about the proposal to develop an open diy buffer board. That is a wonderful idea! I dream of such a board where i can choose my voltage regulators, opamps, gain level, ...
Thanks!
Luc
Rouge Audio Design is testing the Purifi amp for future integration.
Although very short, their first review is interesting and may give you some insights for your choice:
PURIFI 1ET400A
Looking at the distorsion vs output power one can see a pattern of some sort. It looks like the amp is "shifting gears" and distorsion takes a little jump/step. For 8 ohm it's at 15 and 50 watts - as impedance this happens at higher outputs. It seem its not really "monotonic" in its behaviour over as the level changes. Looking at the levels where it happens this should affect e.g. symphonic fortes etc. Is there a mechanism that kicks in more FB as level rises?
Are you worried?
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Are you worried?
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Attachments
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Attachments
At the moment, there is an uncontrolled rise in the 3rd harmonic at hi level. Multi-loop feedback makes it difficult to understand the reasons. maybe 3rd order distortion correction circuitry gives a 90 ° C phase shift in the operating band, which can result in an increase in odd harmonics.
but it is not exactly
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At the moment, there is an uncontrolled rise in the 3rd harmonic at hi level. Multi-loop feedback makes it difficult to understand the reasons....
The third harmonic is at -120db or -130dB, which is not exactly a large amount of distortion.
Second harmonic distortion generation tends to be cancelled by symmetrical push-pull circuity. Single ended amplifiers tend to have more second harmonic distortion.
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