I have had the pleasure ??? of a trumpet going full blast in my lounge room.
It is not something I would like to do too often.
One could also say the same thing of an electric guitar, or a drummer (except using brushes)
We most often listen at home at a very different level to what is produced in an auditorium, and at a different distance, consequently there are always going to be differences. There is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
We can try to get things such as FR, CSD's etc as "correct" (whatever that means) as possible.
We can try to minimise changes to what was recorded (which may not be all that real anyway), but in the final analysis, the ONLY real guide we have to how something sounds, is 2 ears and the connected brain, should we choose to use them and trust them.
It is not something I would like to do too often.
One could also say the same thing of an electric guitar, or a drummer (except using brushes)
We most often listen at home at a very different level to what is produced in an auditorium, and at a different distance, consequently there are always going to be differences. There is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
We can try to get things such as FR, CSD's etc as "correct" (whatever that means) as possible.
We can try to minimise changes to what was recorded (which may not be all that real anyway), but in the final analysis, the ONLY real guide we have to how something sounds, is 2 ears and the connected brain, should we choose to use them and trust them.
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Only if those people that have better hearing also have higher fitness (get more offspring), which is not true these days. Because of modern medicine and human being's ability to control it's environment natural selection practically doesn't work on humans, except in the "third world".
Those that have more children, WILL eventually set the societal standard.. hence will be the "best fitted" to that society.. 😱
I am open minded. This is the model # of the Scanspeak: 18W8531G00.
You can find some tests done by Zaph here: Zaph|Audio
According to Zaph, this is one of the best (if not the absolute best) 7" drivers tested among many dozens. So it would be good if you can prove that this driver "sucks" comparing to pro drivers, in that case, we will all be converted to the pro camp, and I can ensure you I will be the first one.
I don't belong to either camp but I am currently using 18W8531G00 for the midrange from about 180Hz to 2kHz (LR4) in a MTMWW+Sub+Sub. The twin Scanspeak 18W8531G00 per channel give 94dB sensitivity and above 128dB SPL / 1m (within linear excursion) over that frequency range according to my simulation using John K's ABC Dipole, so I am not sure if that is dynamic enough comparing to a single pro driver.
I look forward to your result of comparison.
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Hf50
Thanx. It has been >25 years since i actually used mine, i probably knew that at the time as they crossed to an array of piezos at the extreme top.
I still have a blown pair (and new diaphrams) stashed away.
dave
Thanx. It has been >25 years since i actually used mine, i probably knew that at the time as they crossed to an array of piezos at the extreme top.
I still have a blown pair (and new diaphrams) stashed away.
dave
A new data point for her then, my audiologist (in BC Canada) does up to 10k... somewhere i have the chart. i remember because the ear that got a broken eardrum from a springboard diving accident had a suckout at 8k.
dave
I certainly would disagree here. To me the polar response is MORE IMPORTANT than the frequency response along any single axis. In fact, I believe that the axial point is the worst place to measure because it is a unique point that ignores a lot of important characteristics. BUT, I should also say that the polar response of any piston source is going to be highly predictable and mostly useless. Directivity only matters for 500 Hz. and above and in that region direct radiators don't even make the cut.
The argument here is side-stepping the real issue IMO. The total picture of an audio system is what has to be considered first - you can't start at the component level, this is a big mistake, a common mistake. You have to look at the system. The system design and how it interfaces with the all important room is the single most important thing to consider. From my research I beleive that the proper system design requires components that simply are not made by the hi-end companies. Like very large diameter woofers, and compression drivers, they always use small woofers and dome tweeters. Large diameter drivers are required to get the high directivity that a good room interface requires, and well, waveguides need no discussion.
The point here is that arguing about specific drivers and whose are best is a meaningless exercise IMO. Thats because it ignores the "system" and its the system that is omnipotent. The components are just that "components of the system". If you do the system wrong then even having the best components makes very little difference, the sound is still wrong.
An outrageous position to take, I know, but as far as I am concerned the components are all just commodities to be bought at the lowest bid. It's the system design that matters.
Ok - bring on the onslaughts, I'm going to China tomorrow so I'll be gone. Have fun.
A point I have sometimes pondered is "do we actually require the same dynamics in a lounge room as we would get from a live instrument". As I mentioned earlier, there is no way I want to be listening to, say, a live trumpet in my lounge room. Another way to look at it may be to ask how much change in dynamics is evident at the normal listening distance from some of these louder instruments in a live situation.
Perhaps a slight decrease in dynamics is not necessarly a bad thing ?
They need to hear the elk sneaking thru the maple leaves to come steal their beers. A vital survival skill!
from the docs web:
Pure tone audiometry:
Hearing is measured over a range of pure tones in each ear. Frequencies vary from low pitches (250 Hz) to high pitches (8000 Hz).
Measures the threshold for air and bone conduction. Can determine whether it is due to conductive or sensorineural loss or mixed.
Each ear is tested at octave intervals from 250-8,000Hz and plotted on a pure tone audiogram with the test frequency along the horizontal axis and the thresholds of hearing on the vertical axis. This is in decibels hearing level (dB HL), which ranges from minus 10 (at the top) to 120 (the loudest that most audiometers can generate). The dB HL scale uses 0dB HL as the normal threshold of hearing.
I am a kayaker and had an ear infection, so I got measured. Got measured to 16kHz because I specifically requested so. Otherwise they would finish at 8kHz.
Pure tone audiometry:
Hearing is measured over a range of pure tones in each ear. Frequencies vary from low pitches (250 Hz) to high pitches (8000 Hz).
Measures the threshold for air and bone conduction. Can determine whether it is due to conductive or sensorineural loss or mixed.
Each ear is tested at octave intervals from 250-8,000Hz and plotted on a pure tone audiogram with the test frequency along the horizontal axis and the thresholds of hearing on the vertical axis. This is in decibels hearing level (dB HL), which ranges from minus 10 (at the top) to 120 (the loudest that most audiometers can generate). The dB HL scale uses 0dB HL as the normal threshold of hearing.
I am a kayaker and had an ear infection, so I got measured. Got measured to 16kHz because I specifically requested so. Otherwise they would finish at 8kHz.
btw, I have this cd:
AUDIO-CD Hearing Test (compact disc for testing of hearing)
its excellent and does the same job as getting measured at the docs office for lot less
AUDIO-CD Hearing Test (compact disc for testing of hearing)
its excellent and does the same job as getting measured at the docs office for lot less
All interesting questions and ones that have not been addressed IMO, thus, on this point we are dealing with speculation and hypothesis, except for a few data points. One is the tests that I have done on dynamic thermal compression which showed a dramatic difference between smaller two way Hi-Fi loudspeakers and my larger two-ways. Thermal dynamics is basically a linear thing, unlike THD, and is present even at low levels. Personally I think its a big deal. But the jury is still out as far as proof is concerned.
maybe we should be looking for drivers with heavier voice coil gauge? does high power handling mean that driver has heavy gauge coil?
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That doesn't surprise me at all. The question I am really interested in is what is the "correct" level of dynamics for normal listening in a normal lounge room.
I suspect that "live" dynamics are probably quite a bit too much for a small space, and that the slight compression that is given by hifi drivers is what makes a good quality hifi speaker "sound right", even though it may not have the dynamics of a PA style speaker.
Ditto.
I might point out that there's also practical limits to SPL requirements. I'm working on a pair of nearfield monitors meant to be used about a meter from my head. Considering that I've got a sub capable of massive hearing damage for anything below 75hz, why do I need anything more than a single well-made 7" woofer?
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