Wrt 'highly regarded' speakers with 'widely varying' polar responses: How about almost any two way candidate that crosses over from a 5" or larger woofer to a dome tweeter at above 2 khz?
HomeTheaterShack and AVSForums have the threads. The subwoofer forum on this site has a discussion too.
The measurements show nothing matches it....heck it goes down to 10Hz, it does I believe 90Hz @ 1 Watt @ 10Hz. I think its 102dB @ 20Hz for JUST 1 Watt. Distortion is I believe 300% better then a LLT design.
Totally off topic so just go over to the subwoofer forum. Its the first time I have seen pro audio drivers in any design beat even a single LMS high end design. Heck, its the first time I have seen a pro-audio Tapped horn design go below 20Hz with authority.
highly regarded by the subjective muisc crowd doesnt count in my books. They have no experience with HT performance or HT design but they think since they have great music speakers that they can just assume they work well for HT.
General hi-fi choices do not make the grade for the best Home Theater designs actually.
I think the music crowd that sit less then a couple of meters and just listen to music think of themselves as the authority on speaker sound and design but they are simply the minority these days. The majority are looking for and buy the best HT designs. That is the reality and the future and Pro audio drivers, constant directivity, etc fit that application perfectly.
I would even agree that for small distances, critical listening single person/sweet spot only listening then sure HiFi drivers are still great but who really does that. I have a family room that is about 13000 cuft!! I entertain people for sporting events, I can fit 30 to 40 people comfortably. HiFi drivers need not apply!
This is highly subjective, too. Maybe this is not the case for most people and Pro Drivers do not apply as well!
Every audiophile I've ever known.
I'm currently running four NHT1259 and two JBL 2245H. Would that be adequate for HT?
Right, you run in small circles (We all do) and those audiophile are a very small percentage of the population. Example of what I mean, How many pro golfers do you know or golfer with handicaps under 4? I know many, many so its just our worlds but its not a normal occurance. My POV isnt concerned with what any critical music listener wants.
I guess my main point is if you sit 3 feet away and you are in the sweet spot you need not worry about what obvious point Im trying to explain. Dynamics matter to the rest of us who have more needs then 3 foot radius listening positions.
I havent look at your drivers, I do not know your listening distance, the amps your use or the SPL you require but its not hard to calculate if its adequate for HT. HT performance is truely not subjective at all, its all about the numbers. If you get the calculations right and you have a great in room response you will have a great HT setup.
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Highly subjective? LMAO!! I have a math degree, Im a 0 and 1 guy....anyone that knows me including my Wife and kids would think its funny that someone thinks Im subjective, let alone highly subjective 😱
Its simply a numbers game, look at the size of the room...you can fit a condo in that room....critical listeners need not apply 😉
Audio for me is strictly a science thing in how I build/setup my system. There is zero reason for subjectivity because if I get the numbers right and the measurements right the system automatically meets my requirements.
Show me a system that meets the numbers and measurement requirements that sounds bad?
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Me, my Bob Carver HT processor wasn't used for the last year at least. 😉
Us 'music crowd" know what we like when it comes to hi-fi and music, we have never tried to tell you what to use on a HT setup. Maybe we are the minority, does that make you suddenly superior with that arrogant attitude?
Sorry, I assumed the question asked originally were for hi-fi use (we must have a different understanding of the word), as suggested by hi-fi drivers, if it's for HT use, I would be the last one to differ with you.
The original question was HiFi drivers vs. pro drivers, not about the application. Anyway, I never understood why there's a difference between film sound and music reproduction. E.g. recordings of symphonic orchestras can show a lot of dynamics. Just as much as a movie or even more. A speaker has to preserve that. Listening distance and loudness requirements are primarily the determining factor for the selection of any driver.
Best, Markus
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There isn't any. The bottom line is you want accurate reproduction in your room. If a system can do either well the source just isn't that important. The only difference between a good music system and an HT are the number of channels used to playback the media.
Rob🙂
If I have to build speakers for hi-fi use or HT use, chances are good that they will be quite different.
The application define what the most important aspects are and to me, the order of importance of these aspects may differ quite a lot between hi-fi and HT. When watching movies, absolute SQ isn't as important as dynamics because firstly your attention is on the film and recorded SQ on films surely isn't a priority. Imaging may also be of less importance since more channels are used.
For hi-fi, since your full attention can go to listening, it is more important to preserve detail, ambience, stage focus, realistic reproduction of the sound of acoustical instruments etc. Very high SPL became less important (to me at least).
Surely you can build speakers that will perform well in both areas, I'm quite certain that it would not be the optimum for both uses.
Can't agree. Only because there's a picture, sound quality can be sacrificed? When you see how much work sound recording engineers, mixing engineers and re-mixing engineers (for DVD/Blu-ray) spend on film sound then you'll probably change your mind.
In addition the film industry has standards that provide the base for consistent and therefore better sound quality. For a particular music recording one even doesn't know at what level it was mixed/mastered. To get the tonal balance right on the consumer end is a matter of luck. Let alone how the typical (?) music control room acoustics look like.
Best, Markus
In addition the film industry has standards that provide the base for consistent and therefore better sound quality. For a particular music recording one even doesn't know at what level it was mixed/mastered. To get the tonal balance right on the consumer end is a matter of luck. Let alone how the typical (?) music control room acoustics look like.
Best, Markus
I looked up the AE Europe site and they don't even provide the FR graph for the TD12M!
A little OT:
I am not advocating that HT speakers/drivers should be of inferior quality to speakers aimed mainly at music reproduction, but I do believe that at least some requirements for HT are a little different than for music reproduction.
Front speaker systems designed for HT often have very specific radiation patterns tailored for this use, as do surround speakers. LF/effects channels often contain very high levels of infrasonic and low bass information that might best be reproduced by dedicated subwoofers. Full range speakers designed for excellent music reproduction don't always seem to do the best job for HT.
A lot of high end manufacturers have developed a parallel universe of speaker systems designed specifically for the special requirements of HT - many certified to THX standards. The guys mixing audio for movie sound tracks do have an expectation that the playback speaker systems will meet specific directivity (and other) requirements.
FWIW my interest in HT is fairly limited, I don't watch enough movies or TV to justify spending the kind of money I have on the music side of things. It is definitely the case though that my diy Onkens do a better job in a lot of areas than the nameless HTB I use for video.
I am not advocating that HT speakers/drivers should be of inferior quality to speakers aimed mainly at music reproduction, but I do believe that at least some requirements for HT are a little different than for music reproduction.
Front speaker systems designed for HT often have very specific radiation patterns tailored for this use, as do surround speakers. LF/effects channels often contain very high levels of infrasonic and low bass information that might best be reproduced by dedicated subwoofers. Full range speakers designed for excellent music reproduction don't always seem to do the best job for HT.
A lot of high end manufacturers have developed a parallel universe of speaker systems designed specifically for the special requirements of HT - many certified to THX standards. The guys mixing audio for movie sound tracks do have an expectation that the playback speaker systems will meet specific directivity (and other) requirements.
FWIW my interest in HT is fairly limited, I don't watch enough movies or TV to justify spending the kind of money I have on the music side of things. It is definitely the case though that my diy Onkens do a better job in a lot of areas than the nameless HTB I use for video.
This is just ignorance. The boys at Skywalker Sound are laughing. Movie audio has strict guidelines for levels (eg 82db SPL for dialogue normal), FR, directivity, playback rooms (THX) etc. If you want to use Dolby Digital, they send out someone to over see the mastering to make sure the sound track conforms to there standards.(and it cost $10k) Music has none of this. Some movie music budgets (just the music) approach a million dollars. (100 of the best musicians (London Philharmonic) recording for weeks). Mixes can take months (after thousands of man hours recording and editing dialogue, sound effects, backgrounds etc), using the best gear available on the planet. All this time and effort because SQ isnt a priority?
To be fair, this industry reinforces the idea that the SQ dosnt matter, because if you notice the sound conciously there not doing there job properly (you lose the illusion). But your subconcious will notice and you wont enjoy the movie as much.
Theres music out there with just as much LF info. (that full range speakers dont do the best job on)
I also do not lump HT and dedicated audio listening speakers completely into the same group, although there is overlap. I would more readily use subwoofers in a HT setup (though I have used them in the past for my stereo only setup if I could co-locate them acoustically with my main speakers). Also, it is my feeling that HT speakers would generally benefit from a broader dispersion pattern. Individual dedicated HT speakers as a rule generally are smaller than stereo speakers. Finally, most HT program material is not really that good SQ wise, so getting the last ounce of refinement out of HT speakers (excepting the front channels, perhaps) isn't so high on my priorities list.
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A lot of this is just marketing, the exceptions are the physical limitations (ie placing the center channel), and the dedicated LFE chanel. And they have to make 6 speakers (or8) with one active one, instead of two with out increasing the price 4 fold.
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