ShinOBIWAN said:
I think the fact they mention wood fibres probably means it's not going to be that different. I guess that maybe a moisture resistant MDF may move less than a standard variety.
AuroraB said:
Probably it's a convenience thing with the guitars (as a guitar body is relatively small). That's basically the level of stuff I've been spraying with the turbine - I don't think I'd want to attempt a car with it!
Shellac was one of the many products I tried - it took paint OK (cellulose) but showed the join lines almost immediately.
MJL21193 said:
Commercial on a very small scale - more artisan level. Frankly, I think Ant is kinda there already; he makes speakers, and sells them when he wants to make another.
I did speak at length with the European MDF manufacturer's federation, as well as a UK MDF producer, and some furniture guys. They were a great help, but didn't have a specific answer.
All of the paint companies I've spoken to have a specific answer - "use our product". I have. None of them have worked yet!
Your Mikey Mouse system seems to be getting better results than anything I'm doing at the moment though...
noah katz said:
Because if my CNC machine tried driving a 1/4" spiral upcut bit through it at 2 inches per second the results would be unpleasant. 😀
First a big thankyou to all the people who create this forum, has been lots of help and pleasure for me. (not sure for her indoors)
As equipment has been mentioned on this thread thought this may be of use:-
Bought one these at the weekend in my local ALDI ! as my old Hydrovane has gone PHUTT.
http://www.aldiwarranty.co.uk/search/search_results_detail.asp?id=91
It was £59.99 !! Had a few there. Not on their website now.
Has included a spray kit including a paint spray gun, (untested by me could be good for starters).
Good points :- approx 9.5cfm (270lpm), single phase, cast iron barrel, spray kit , 3yr g'tee.
Not so good :- 4ft power cable (not oxygen free), bit loud so far.
By the way, Shin you work is exquisite, hope to see it at the weekend.
Oh yes another good point. It's £60 quid !
As equipment has been mentioned on this thread thought this may be of use:-
Bought one these at the weekend in my local ALDI ! as my old Hydrovane has gone PHUTT.
http://www.aldiwarranty.co.uk/search/search_results_detail.asp?id=91
It was £59.99 !! Had a few there. Not on their website now.
Has included a spray kit including a paint spray gun, (untested by me could be good for starters).
Good points :- approx 9.5cfm (270lpm), single phase, cast iron barrel, spray kit , 3yr g'tee.
Not so good :- 4ft power cable (not oxygen free), bit loud so far.
By the way, Shin you work is exquisite, hope to see it at the weekend.
Oh yes another good point. It's £60 quid !
8 bar
9.5 cfm
24 litres
Is this any good for spraying then? It's cheap and small, but is the tank big enough?
9.5 cfm
24 litres
Is this any good for spraying then? It's cheap and small, but is the tank big enough?
Tank is on the small side, but hey, so is a 50 litre unit!
8 bar looks pretty standard (i.e. the same as most I've seen).
The quoted CFM figure is air displacement, which means free air delivery would be maybe 7CFM max, 5 or 6CFM constant.
You might just run an air-fed mask from it. Don't know about spray guns, but some HVLP ones I was looking at yesterday required 15CFM FAD! Way beyond even the 3hp 50l unit I'm considering.
8 bar looks pretty standard (i.e. the same as most I've seen).
The quoted CFM figure is air displacement, which means free air delivery would be maybe 7CFM max, 5 or 6CFM constant.
You might just run an air-fed mask from it. Don't know about spray guns, but some HVLP ones I was looking at yesterday required 15CFM FAD! Way beyond even the 3hp 50l unit I'm considering.
Ant - this compressor of yours... a mate of mine has just suggested to me that you could get a replacement motor (single phase) as this would probably be cheaper than sorting out another compressor.
There are plenty of industrial motors around, and a 4hp (3kW) unit should 'only' be 12amp by my dodgy maths. If you could get a soft start unit, then it shouldn't go crazy with inrush current.
You'd be unlikely to get it within a 13amp plug limit, but as 20amp is around 6hp (at 240V), you should be able to get away with a dedicated single phase line for it (no more complex than what I did for the extractor). Perhaps install a setup with industrial 240V connectors - http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat...223&destination=/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=94962
There are plenty of industrial motors around, and a 4hp (3kW) unit should 'only' be 12amp by my dodgy maths. If you could get a soft start unit, then it shouldn't go crazy with inrush current.
You'd be unlikely to get it within a 13amp plug limit, but as 20amp is around 6hp (at 240V), you should be able to get away with a dedicated single phase line for it (no more complex than what I did for the extractor). Perhaps install a setup with industrial 240V connectors - http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat...223&destination=/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=94962
"The problem with polyester resin is that it has styrene as it's solvent. The styrene is absorbed by the MDF, thereby weakening the resin, as it no longer has it's solvent to cure."
Is this a function of MDF's high porosity, or the binders in it?
Would it be an issue using Baltic birch?
Is this a function of MDF's high porosity, or the binders in it?
Would it be an issue using Baltic birch?
sploo said:
Sounds like a good idea but then you have the problem of finding a suitable single phase motor and matching the crank shaft with the driver wheel. Not to mention mounting issues and the unforseen problems. Might be get lucky and find one that's fairly cheap and drops straight in but then again...
No, what I've decided to do is sell up and grab another machine of similar performance but single phase. To that end I've just ordered one of these:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Extreme-4-Silent-Compressor-(Oil-Free)-22034.htm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Its a 4hp unit delivering 12cfm(FAD) with a 90ltr receiver which is held at 142psi(most hold at around 100psi, so this does store a greater volume of air than is apparent).
Another nice but not really essential feature is the quiet running 74dB@1m 4 cylinder motor that only runs at 1450rpm. That should make me feel a little less guilty about running the compressor and annoying the neighbours.
Overall its a virtually the same specs as the 3 phase one but with a smaller receiver and is a good deal quieter.
Gordon you coming to the DIY meet at the weekend?
Damn you sir! I was feeling all chuffed that I've just had a 50l 3HP unit delivered today, and you've gone and outdone me. 😉
I am planning to make it up. Should be there on Saturday. As yet I've not had time to make arrangements to stay overnight, so was going to drive back home in the evening. If I get time to sort something out then I would probably stay for both days.
I am planning to make it up. Should be there on Saturday. As yet I've not had time to make arrangements to stay overnight, so was going to drive back home in the evening. If I get time to sort something out then I would probably stay for both days.
sploo said:
Nice. Pics and details please 🙂 I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts on compressed air vs. turbine too.
Have you got a gun for it yet? If you don't then you can have my old Kestrel Aerofura for nowt, if your interested let me know and I'll bring it to the meet. Its a nice budget gun, still sprays like new, doesn't need loads of air(180ltr per/m) and gets nice results. Info on it is here under the 'Fura2100 ECO&T':
http://www.kestrelequipment.co.uk/K...gue_files/spray_guns/professional_gravity.pdf
Alternatively if your looking for something a little more special but not massively expensive then I'd very highly recommend the AirGunsa AZ3 HTE:
http://www.anest-iwata.co.uk/objects/documents/brochures/AZ3_uk.pdf
AirGunsa is Iwata's economy brand. All the technology on them is descended from the more expensive models though. Rod Holmes, who is the Iwata rep here in the UK, has loaned me this gun to get a feel for it after I expessed the need for a dedicated primer gun with the ability to lay down unthinned high build primers. He also said I might be surprised at just how good it compares to my W400 so left me with two air cap and needle setups. One is a 1.3mm setup commonly recommended for clears and basecoats and the other is 1.8mm which is used for high viscosity heavy build primers.
I've had a go with the 1.3mm and frankly its very close to the £350RRP W400WB I have. I'd say 90% of the performance, maybe 95% with some practice and better setup. What it does do is a very even and finely atomised spray pattern just like its bigger brother. The real kicker is that the AZ3 gun is only around £95.
If your interested I can give you Rod's number and you can give him a call. You'll get to lend whatever guns your interested in for a few days with a no obligation or cost.
Gordon, if your looking for a Hotel let me know and can point you in the direction of a few that are close to the venue (within about 15 minutes car journey).
ShinOBIWAN said:
I got it from an eBay seller. Arrived quickly, though the tank had got a bit battered in transit.
It's one of these (though not from this seller): http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Compressor-50ltr-Direct-Drive-3-0hp-Sealey-SA22503?sc=9&category=20
Interestingly, that site notes it's got a '1/4" BSP Male Outlet'. Well, I measured it last night, and it's definitely 1/2".
I've also bought an air-fed mask from another eBay seller, though I've not heard or seen anything in the last few days - cross fingers it's going to turn up.
I'm a complete compressor noob, and at the moment all I know is that I need a filter (like a Sealey Sa2001/F) for the mask.
I reckon I'll need 10m of hose, and Sealey recommended a 'low toxic' variety for mask use. The details of the filter indicates it's got a 1/2" female connector, so should screw onto the compressor. I guess I then need a hose with suitable connectors to go from the filter to whatever the mask requires.
ShinOBIWAN said:
I haven't, but would be very interested in giving it a go. I'd be most grateful for the gun - and I'm sure I can accidentally leave a few beers in your car 😉 (are you a lager or an ale man?)
I like the idea of a gravity fed gun, as I presume you can use all the paint in the container, unlike my turbine suction setup - which always wastes a bit of paint in the bottom?
Would I need another/different filter for a gun (or is the Sa2001/F a general purpose oil filter, suitable for both mask and gun use)?
ShinOBIWAN said:
Sounds good. For that price I'd be tempted if I decided air was the way to go.
I guess I could spray waterbased with the compressor + gun (and a filter mask), and then accept using the turbine for a 2K clear coat with the compressor for the mask.
Sounds like Iwata have got pretty good customer engagement and support.
BTW Are you planning to bring the waterbased stuff for the potential spraying you were mentioning. I'd like to get a look at the finish, and the raw product.
ShinOBIWAN said:
No worries. Some things are still up in the air, so I may need to drive back home on Saturday night. I'm going to play it by ear - if I can stay around I'm sure I'll find somewhere on the day, otherwise, I have a sleeping bag and a reasonably large car!
Looking forward to the meet. Though you're going to have to keep Vikash busy long enough for me to load his Orions into my motor. 😀
sploo said:
The Sealey compressor are nice models for not much money. I have the 2hp version of yours and its served me well in the 2 years I've had it. The only thing that went wrong was the piston but I've just had a new one installed by a neighbour and its as good as new again.
My only advice would be not to run it hard ie. 6 hour priming sessions where the compressor is running nearly constantly for 3 of those. I did this a few times within the space of 3 or 4 months. The heat generated by the motor caused the piston to warp and begin to knock inside the cylinder.
I got my new machine today and its pretty impressive. I thought something was wrong when I switched it on for the first time. I'm used to a compressor being a fair bit louder and in comparison this one just hums unobtrusively. The idiots at Axminster sent the machine through the delivery system fully primed with 10bars worth of pressure in the receiver too! Looks like they tested it before dispatch (its a b-stock model with some superficial damage that I got for a discount) and forgot/couldn't be arsed to drain the receiver.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Are you sure? 1/2" is pretty huge and is only found on the bigger air tools and high capacity compressors. Might be 3/8" but most of the smaller machine use 1/4".
Its OK Gordon. Doesn't matter about that. Thanks anyway though.
Yep, spot on. Whatever's in the pot gets used.
That filter is fine for gun. You might want to look at coalescing filter for the mask. As it removes water, oil and also the vapours released within the cylinder as heat cooks the metal and oil. Don't think that stuff will harm you but it does smell/taste weird.
I'll bring some along, it smells weird but looks pretty much like solvent based.
Good luck with that. 😀
Viks bringing his missus so I'm guessing two hours in we'll see Vik trying to keep her entertained as she desperately fights off audio geek induced elephant tranquilliser-like symptoms. That's the time to make your move.
If that fails then lock him in the bogs, ram raid the lounge and throw the stuff in the boot. Sam Fisher would be proud.
"If that fails then lock him in the bogs, ram raid the lounge and throw the stuff in the boot. Sam Fisher would be proud."
What did he say????!!!!!
What did he say????!!!!!
ShinOBIWAN said:
Yea, it looks OK (apart from the shipping damage). A bit cheap in places, but what do you expect for 150quid. I certainly don't plan to push it that far, so hopefully it should last pretty well.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Looks like a monster! It completely dwarfs the 50L unit.
ShinOBIWAN said:
*ROTFL* Dear sir, please accept this bomb...
That gave me (and a few people where I work) a bit of a laugh this morning. Bloody lucky it didn't get dropped during transit.
ShinOBIWAN said:
The external thread on the connector is 1/2" (male), which apparently will attach nicely to an SA2001/F filter, which in turn has a 1/4" reducer.
The mask turned up today, and looks OK. It uses a Quick Disconnect port, so a hose with 1/4" connections looks like being suitable (with a 1/4" to QD for the mask end, and maybe a 1/4" female to female connector for the filter.
Unfortunately... I've just found out the price of a 10mtr low toxic hose... namely, more than five times the cost of a normal hose! As in, 100GBP for 10mtr of tubing!
There surely must be places where you can buy lengths of low toxic hose and add the connectors yourself?
ShinOBIWAN said:
The mask manual mentions a couple of coalescing filters. Got a few Google hits, but couldn't find anywhere selling them online.
ShinOBIWAN said:
*LOL* Right, I'll explain the in-depth subtleties of cutting MDF on a CNC machine, and that should keep them both sufficiently comatose for you to move whatever we want. 😉
Hello, all. This morning a couple of my brain cells fired, and I thought of you gentlemen working on finishing your MDF. Specifically it happened while I was looking down into the toilette.
My toilette seat is painted white. It's got a nice hard finish, though nobody ever bothered to make it high gloss. I've seen old toilette seats where water gets under the finish and the surface starts to bubble. So I know that the seats are sometimes made of particle board or something water vulnerable like MDF. I know the paint finish is there to protect the seat. I'd bet that the ring part at least is made of joined pieces of wood, 'cause why would the manufacturer want to make a big toilette seat doughnut hole of waste wood for each seat?
I seem to remember that one or another of you guys here isn't above contacting industry to find out how they're making stuff. Perhaps if you can find the potty seat people they'd tell you what they're using. Either glue or paint-wise.
I don't know if the mental juxtaposition of your lovingly created objects of high craftsmanship and the location where I park my **** provides any insight, butt I just had to tell you about it.
That's my not-quite-awake-yet insight for the morning. Good luck!
My toilette seat is painted white. It's got a nice hard finish, though nobody ever bothered to make it high gloss. I've seen old toilette seats where water gets under the finish and the surface starts to bubble. So I know that the seats are sometimes made of particle board or something water vulnerable like MDF. I know the paint finish is there to protect the seat. I'd bet that the ring part at least is made of joined pieces of wood, 'cause why would the manufacturer want to make a big toilette seat doughnut hole of waste wood for each seat?
I seem to remember that one or another of you guys here isn't above contacting industry to find out how they're making stuff. Perhaps if you can find the potty seat people they'd tell you what they're using. Either glue or paint-wise.
I don't know if the mental juxtaposition of your lovingly created objects of high craftsmanship and the location where I park my **** provides any insight, butt I just had to tell you about it.
That's my not-quite-awake-yet insight for the morning. Good luck!
AdamThorne said:
😀
Not a bad idea though. Will do some research when I return from the meet. Thanks.
Gordon, have you heard of PPG or Nexa?
I ask because I've found some excellent 1k clearcoat that dries and hardens quickly. Its not quite 2k performance but its definitely the best 1k clear I've used yet. The full name of the product is Nexa Autocolour Belco 1k Clearcoat.
Prior to this I've been using Upol 1k Acrylic Smartclear. Its a nice clear and gives good gloss but it seems to take ages to dry.
I bought it from an ebay seller who appears to be shifting these as a result of the ban on 1k products. Price is £11 per 1ltr and that's average for this sort of product. If your a bit reluctant to go with 2k this might be worth a look.
I ask because I've found some excellent 1k clearcoat that dries and hardens quickly. Its not quite 2k performance but its definitely the best 1k clear I've used yet. The full name of the product is Nexa Autocolour Belco 1k Clearcoat.
Prior to this I've been using Upol 1k Acrylic Smartclear. Its a nice clear and gives good gloss but it seems to take ages to dry.
I bought it from an ebay seller who appears to be shifting these as a result of the ban on 1k products. Price is £11 per 1ltr and that's average for this sort of product. If your a bit reluctant to go with 2k this might be worth a look.
Gordon,
The old man badly dented his bonnet when a heavy oak door that he was taking off the roof rack slipped and hit it. The damage was beyond repair so he bought a new one from Citroen and was quoted a ridiculous £340 for the spray job. I've never sprayed car bits before but I have to say its infinitely easier than MDF. Much better substrate to work with and only a fraction of the prep. needed.
This was a great excuse to try out the Nexa clear and the results are pleasing and like I said, it dries quickly and is tough for a 1k product. The blue metallic basecoat is waterbased Lechler stuff, the same as I showed you at the meet.
The Iwata has laid the clear down pretty well and may not even need final finishing.
The old man badly dented his bonnet when a heavy oak door that he was taking off the roof rack slipped and hit it. The damage was beyond repair so he bought a new one from Citroen and was quoted a ridiculous £340 for the spray job. I've never sprayed car bits before but I have to say its infinitely easier than MDF. Much better substrate to work with and only a fraction of the prep. needed.
This was a great excuse to try out the Nexa clear and the results are pleasing and like I said, it dries quickly and is tough for a 1k product. The blue metallic basecoat is waterbased Lechler stuff, the same as I showed you at the meet.
The Iwata has laid the clear down pretty well and may not even need final finishing.
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