Strange i probably have to clean my ears 🙂 because for me direct radiator speaker seems have most transients and less living room response in the recording where horn is some diffuse in transients but full of room in the recording, but hey that could be the room from the tracks recording studio or what.
Or both speakers running and reflecting off walls from other. Remember that Kees is all analog there are no DSP EQ or delays or XO. I did not get to listen with headphones yet - so maybe did not hear the differences well. That direct radiator speaker is actually quite good.
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Works for me - sounds great Kees! Nice work - looks like the K tube tweeter was the key. Nice sound.
I still go first test the faseplug, because I am curious about how far I can drive it then.
But I have read and know now that these plugs can give bad IM distortion (that is why my amp has NO feedback), that is why older compression drivers sounds so hars, for PA not a problem but for hifi it is.
I need also a compression driver who drive that tube, I use now a 92 dB watt tweeter. What is also nice a compression driver on such tube sounds way less hars
then with a horn.
regards
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I use a PRV D280Ti and like the sound a lot. Price in US is about $30. There are more expensive options for sure - like cone drivers they come in all prices and options. Look for smooth response graph and low HD, and as low an fs as you can get.
Unfortanely it do not ship to holland, and if it does it is very expensive.
Why it is so difficult order from usa? while order in china is so cheap incl transport even free..
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Same question with why Eurozone costs a lot to ship from or too and China products ship free.
I have been told it's because China imports a lot of western perishable food and that has to fly in the a DHL plane. These empty planes returning from China take on "free" freight and paid freight. It's asymmetric.
Look for 2/3 bolt pattern vs screw in mount. More versatile for mounting to your own horn later.
I have been told it's because China imports a lot of western perishable food and that has to fly in the a DHL plane. These empty planes returning from China take on "free" freight and paid freight. It's asymmetric.
Look for 2/3 bolt pattern vs screw in mount. More versatile for mounting to your own horn later.
Sometimes I see nice things and share.
This has a beyma comrpession driver with a K-guide, I think it is a nice idea for the trynergy making it wery high quality.
this week I hope have the tangerine test done, then I now wat and how that works and sound.
https://vimeo.com/72501089
regards
This has a beyma comrpession driver with a K-guide, I think it is a nice idea for the trynergy making it wery high quality.
this week I hope have the tangerine test done, then I now wat and how that works and sound.
https://vimeo.com/72501089
regards
In case anyone has not been over to the Multiway forum, I am working on a bookshelf multiway point-source horn with Bushemeister. We are making good progress.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/285030-bookshelf-multi-way-point-source-horn.html
Design vision (500Hz XO - FAST horn basically):
XT1640 Wg and SB65WBAC inside rear cup chamber with proposed locations of bass ports and 8in dia diaphragm circle:
Predicted SPL with dual 8in woofers and SB65WBAC25-4 mid/tweet in an 18Sound XT1640 waveguide:
First measurements of SB65 in WG (EQ applied):
HD with 350Hz BW2 HPF at 90dB and 1m:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/285030-bookshelf-multi-way-point-source-horn.html
Design vision (500Hz XO - FAST horn basically):
XT1640 Wg and SB65WBAC inside rear cup chamber with proposed locations of bass ports and 8in dia diaphragm circle:
Predicted SPL with dual 8in woofers and SB65WBAC25-4 mid/tweet in an 18Sound XT1640 waveguide:
First measurements of SB65 in WG (EQ applied):
HD with 350Hz BW2 HPF at 90dB and 1m:
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About K-tube : does a 3/4 dome tweeter like this one (horned) could work ? http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2008-851200.pdf : there is a model with front plate foamed (the one of the Proac D15, I have it it sounds accurate, though I prefer the accuracy of aluminium or the texture of the T33 of the Kef 104/2) which can provide some proof if putted on an apex Tube ! BL is high for a cone tweeter ? BL=2.1 !
X, I went at Rougié shop for the papered foam : it doesn't work if some french has the idea as well : it is rigid, made for light screen-board to pick some paper-sheet like on a fridge for instance !
But I finded an electric glue-gun 🙂
What is please the T-factor of the 2" Trynergy horn ?
Has somebody a picture of the apex cabinet: how did you solve the surround of the driver and the connexion of the cabinet to the apex: quarter foam ?
X, I went at Rougié shop for the papered foam : it doesn't work if some french has the idea as well : it is rigid, made for light screen-board to pick some paper-sheet like on a fridge for instance !
But I finded an electric glue-gun 🙂
What is please the T-factor of the 2" Trynergy horn ?
Has somebody a picture of the apex cabinet: how did you solve the surround of the driver and the connexion of the cabinet to the apex: quarter foam ?
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I don't know what the T factor is - I used the spreadsheet by Volvotreter to calculate profile for 175Hz and 3.75in throat tractrix. I then scaled that down to achieve 2in throat.
Hi X,
Not important, just to try to understand how is working a horn with the main characteritics ! As I'm lazy these days with manual skill (I beginn, stop, rebeginn, etc :snail mode, but for now my dac made big évolutions with a crazy sound because a crazy clock ! and the sound : hou la la !)
between two foam cut : here certainly the explanation of something you know latready but into an other name :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/161889-horn-contour-accuracy-how-important.html I was asking myseld how it is important if we keep a cone driver with low BL at the apex like the 10F or the Kees one in lieu of compression driver !
the little bookshelf looks good 🙂 ! I'm always with the 10F as I bought them . ... Always with the goal of the B&C 10CL51 you advised from Weltersys. (though would like more sealed than closed).
I follow the adventures here 🙂, see you
Not important, just to try to understand how is working a horn with the main characteritics ! As I'm lazy these days with manual skill (I beginn, stop, rebeginn, etc :snail mode, but for now my dac made big évolutions with a crazy sound because a crazy clock ! and the sound : hou la la !)
between two foam cut : here certainly the explanation of something you know latready but into an other name :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/161889-horn-contour-accuracy-how-important.html I was asking myseld how it is important if we keep a cone driver with low BL at the apex like the 10F or the Kees one in lieu of compression driver !
the little bookshelf looks good 🙂 ! I'm always with the 10F as I bought them . ... Always with the goal of the B&C 10CL51 you advised from Weltersys. (though would like more sealed than closed).
I follow the adventures here 🙂, see you
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Contour accuracy is not too critical - a few mm won't change things a lot.
It looks like Bushmeister figured out the riddle of how to get rid of cancelation dips. Use a round throat. Smooth and polish throat edge. Use a felt damping ring under and around surround.
10F with a larger round throat and damping ring can also probanly be made to not have a dip. With DIY horns square throats are more common.
It looks like Bushmeister figured out the riddle of how to get rid of cancelation dips. Use a round throat. Smooth and polish throat edge. Use a felt damping ring under and around surround.
10F with a larger round throat and damping ring can also probanly be made to not have a dip. With DIY horns square throats are more common.
Sensititity of this tweeter is 88 db, little low for the trynergy horn, I do not now if a K-tube do work hornloaded so it make tweeter higher sensitive. I have a old tweeter who has double magnet and is 94 db watt.
This guy has a lot of compression drivers and more.. For the rest you need to ask X
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I surmise you're right. The idea of K-tube tweeter was about a thin tube which could not change the sound signature of the horn if going through one of the wall because it' a thin tube ! The only idea I founded for a driver which beam a lot because high frequencies, which could be loaded behind the wall without making a hole in the apex driver like a Tannoy for instance; and at least could be physicaly setuped for length for a passive time allignement with the apex driver (surmising the tweeter phases since the apex of the k-tube and being behind the apex of the main horn in relation to time position I mean) !🙄
Theoric idea 😀 from me, two cents if you prefer !
Theoric idea 😀 from me, two cents if you prefer !
Can you drawn your idea? I have done it as test in mouth with a tweeter, I think when make it such long that driver is equal on th wideband visaton tube get quite long, I do ask myself can I go put it deeper in the mouth, it is quite thin tube so when use a 1 inch tweeter it can work nice.
this moment I am busy with throat of horn, a faseplug test, but I think I get never to 15 a 20 khz, it needs a really strong motor for this, or get hars sound, a high pass correction filter is then the best way even then it get 94 db watt or some more without hars compression sound..
regards
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It is just an odd idea for whom will need it (if it works in real life !)
😱Ah yes, sorry for my bad English, you're right, sketching it should be clearer .
Please don't laugh, my skilling to draw is equal to my English writting level 😀.
That's the basic idea ! Should be more manageable maybe with lower XO than the ones managed in FR Trynergy ! I don't know. It is thought as a passive with Center to Center and length of the tube and apex of the tube in relation to the main Apex one for phase alignement. Though physical walls and cabinet restrictions should perhaps not made it possible in real life ?! With tweeter less than 1" like the good classic line from ScanSpeak ? or some less than 1" compression ?
It's off topic as the brillant idea X had was to putt a FR with cone to avoid all the hassle & filters !
I will try to find a photograph of the th4001 with the plugs for high frequencies.... another odd, bad idea as it was made for strong TAD motor !
😱Ah yes, sorry for my bad English, you're right, sketching it should be clearer .
Please don't laugh, my skilling to draw is equal to my English writting level 😀.
That's the basic idea ! Should be more manageable maybe with lower XO than the ones managed in FR Trynergy ! I don't know. It is thought as a passive with Center to Center and length of the tube and apex of the tube in relation to the main Apex one for phase alignement. Though physical walls and cabinet restrictions should perhaps not made it possible in real life ?! With tweeter less than 1" like the good classic line from ScanSpeak ? or some less than 1" compression ?
It's off topic as the brillant idea X had was to putt a FR with cone to avoid all the hassle & filters !
I will try to find a photograph of the th4001 with the plugs for high frequencies.... another odd, bad idea as it was made for strong TAD motor !
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Kees,
Have you seen latest from Bushmeister where he uses smooth throat and no phase plug? With thin damping foam he got rid of cancellation dip completely.
More in Bookshelf horn thread.
Have you seen latest from Bushmeister where he uses smooth throat and no phase plug? With thin damping foam he got rid of cancellation dip completely.
More in Bookshelf horn thread.
If you don't mind a 3-way design the adding a K tube tweeter like this can work well. It will certainly give more detailed HF output. The physical alignment is excellent and for all intents and purposes remains a summation point source horn.
I think a compression driver on the K tube is overkill and they have higher HD. A 1in dome tweeter with a low distortion motor and damped rear chamber will work nicely. Even a cheap DC28F-8 would be excellent.
Kees,
Have you seen latest from Bushmeister where he uses smooth throat and no phase plug? With thin damping foam he got rid of cancellation dip completely.
More in Bookshelf horn thread.
Yes I did read there, this is why I do make a adaptor and see what I can get with it, idea was to make the throat round on first couple cm going in square after, that is easy..
The speaker I have is different, do not now how it do fit here.
If I go k-tube I have a lot more possibilitys what concerns drivers, not needed wideband types.
thanks to reminded me.
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