Poogeing the SACD: The Pioneer 563A

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#61
JonScaife said:
lol GregGC


On the subject of the 563A - it still seems to exist in the US, but Pioneer Europe doesn't list it. they have a 565A instead. I can't find a single online retailer selling the 563A in the UK. Did Pioneer EVER sell the 563A in Europe?

Vinnie & KBK being in North America can probably still get it, but I'd guess its not available over here.

Good luck modding it guys
Click to expand...

As far as I know, the 563A never existed in Europe. The 565A is the European version.

I know Best Buy in the US is still selling plenty of 563A's for $179.
I think www.audioadvisior.com has them too, along with lots of online stores.
 
#62
563A updates

All,

I am making significant progress with my 563A mods. I wrote a long post here last night, but when I tried to attach a picture, it would not take it and I lost the whole message :bawling:
Let me sum up what I have done so far:

POWER SUPPLY BOARD UPGRADES

C5 250V, 150uF Panasonic
C1 275V, 1uF Panasonic X2 rated noise filter
C301 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C302 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C251 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C201 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C202 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C101 16V, 680uF Panasonic FC
C601 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C102 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C501 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C401 50V, 47uF Panasonic FC

Added bypass cap across C302, a 50V, 0.1uF
Panasonic Polypropylene

AUDIO/DAC BOARD

C245 6.3V, 47uF Black Gate NX Hi-Q
C246 6.3V, 47uF Black Gate NX Hi-Q
C732 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C111 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C102 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C105 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C232 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C203 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C201 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C109 10V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C116 10V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C805 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C771 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C773 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C730 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C707 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC

--Removed JA801 (optical digital out)
--Replace stereo opamp IC204 (BA4560F)
with Burr Brown OPA2604
--Removed IC302 (surround sound opamp)
--Removed IC402 (surround sound opamp)
--Removed IC301 (surround sound dac)
--Removed IC401 (surround sound dac)
--Added dampening sheets to the inside of the top cover

So, how does it sound so far?
VERY VERY VERY GOOD!!! :smash: 😎 :note: :note: :note:
All aspects of the sound have been improved, and in some areas,
significantly improved (such as bass tightness and control, treble air, smoothness, and detail, midrange purity).

Before doing a more in depth review, I am hoping to finish the rest of my tweaking this weekend:

Replace the output muting transistor circuit with high-quality COTO reed-relays. This will remove two resistors from the output signal path (440ohms total) and should improve the sound quite a bit, increasing dynamics and PRAT (I hope) 😉

Install a 12V, 1.3Ah SLA battery to replace the V+12A rail that powers the opamp in the output stage, and also powers a 5V regulator that feeds the DAC. In fact, I plan to completely isolate the analog circuitry (which will be powered by the battery) from the rest of the player. Another Coto SPDT reed-relay will be used that will turn on the battery power when the player turns on, and will switch the battery to charge mode when the player is put into standby/off mode. To the user (me), everything will work exactly the same way, only the sound should be taken to another level (black black background -- think Ack!dAck here).

Well, I have a lot of work to do this weekend. If all goes well, these mods will be done by Sunday night :xfingers:
These mods have taken a lot of time, but the payback is well worth it!

I'll report more in a few days...

Vinnie
 
#63
Well vinne.. you're crazier than I am! 😀 But I might be willing to go a bit further than that, as nobody beats me at my own game. :cannotbe:

As for the manual.. you tried contactimg me and now I have to search through my emails... and look in my 'way back' machine. My problem ibecomes something I have never had issue with before: time! I don't have the time to do these things these days, and I can't stand stock gear, no matter what the price range. so I might buy a expensive piece of gear..but end up moddding it anyway. The latest is a $10K DLP projector. One week old..and already under the knife. shame about the warranty.....
 
#67
Practical (Stupid) Questions

Vinnie

Thanks for the schematics.
I've ordered the parts to redo the psu and dac boards as you outlined in your post.

I don,t have much-any experience with handling sm devices,
nor am I familiar with the wiring connectors used on the Pioneer unit.

So, can you describe how you got the op amps and the transistors out - special tools, fluxes, etc.?

And how did you undo the wiring harnesses? Dammed if I can figure the flex foil ones out!

Hey I can't even figure out how to add smileys.
Shows the level of my questions.

Anyway, if you think others will benefit, please give us a few tips.
 
#68
You think that's bad? Yesterday.. I literally dropped a $20k SXGA DLP projector. It was brand new, with 13 hrs on it. It spun in the air..did a 360, bounced off ANOTHER piece of demo (both loaners! ieeee! signed for and brand new..ieeeee!! :bigeyes: )equipment...hit the edge of the table, and then spun again, and then bounced off the dog food bowl on the floor..hit the dog's water bowl..and got soaked. But just wet on the outside...thankfully. This..ten minutes before the demo I was scheduled to do with it. I was heading out the door just a bit too fast.... To say that I nearly had a heart attack when it happened.. would be an understatement. :bigeyes: :bigeyes: :bawling: :dead:
 
#71
help!

Is the normal stereo out thats is next to the component
output, the same as the font left/right out? Because sound is
coming out of the stereo out and the 5.1 left/right out put.

The reason I ask is that I see 3 opamps 2 on the top side and one on the buttom side. now 2 on the top are for the cnt/sub,
and surR/surL, and the one on the buttom is for the left/right =
5.1, great now where is the opamp on the standard left/right.
if I do basic trace C245 C246 lead to the 5.1 front left/right
output.

and one more thing, what happen if I use a higher cap like 470@16v or 1000uF@6.3 for C245&246
instead of 47uF@16v

thxs


kong
 
#72
All,

Here is an updated list of mods. I changed some caps values on the audio/dac board from my previous list:

Power Supply Mods

Location New Value New Type
C5 250V, 150uF Panasonic
C1 275V, 1uF X2 Panasonic
C301 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C302 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C251 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C201 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C202 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C101 16V, 680uF Panasonic FC
C601 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C102 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C501 35V, 100uF Panasonic FC
C401 50V, 47uF Panasonic FC
C302 bypass 50V, 0.1uF Panasonic Polypropylene


Audio/DAC board

C245 6.3V, 47uF Black Gate NX Hi-Q
C246 6.3V, 47uF Black Gate NX Hi-Q
C804 6.3V, 47uF Black Gate NX Hi-Q
C732 16V, 680uF Panasonic FC
C111 16V, 680uF Panasonic FC
C102 16V, 680uF Panasonic FC
C105 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C232 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C203 16V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C201 10V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C109 10V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C116 10V, 470uF Panasonic FC
C805 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C771 16V, 220uF Panasonic FC
C773 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C730 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C707 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
C774 16V, 330uF Panasonic FC
IC204 OPA2604 Burr-Brown

--> ALL multichannel dacs, opamps, caps, resistors, etc have
been COMPLETELY removed from the board. There are only 2-channel parts remaining!
--> Removed optical out
--> New sterero RCA jacks and digital out jack (cardas)
--> S-video jack remains, buy ALL other jacks are removed and
the holes have been plugged
--> The V+12A line to the audio out board now comes directly from the power supply board to the input of IC101 (5V regulator).
I cut the V+12A etch on the PCB at CN601 and hard wired a new line from the power supply board to IC101. The path is much shorter now.

I did not get around to doing the muting transistor swap with reed-relays, yet 😉

As for the SLA battery, well, it really doesn't fit like I thought it would 😡
What stinks is that there is continuity between the GND and GNDA (even when I completely removed the board from the player). My guess is that they meet up inside IC201. To make the battery tweak really worthwhile, I really was hoping that they were completely isolated so any gnd noise would not impose on the pristene battery ground. Anyway, I did temporarily connect the battery outside the player and connected it with a relay that was controlled by the SW+12V line. The original reed-relay idea didn't work out because it couldn't handle the in-rush current associated with charging all the caps on the V+12A line (thus quickly arc welding shut) so I tried a heavier duty 10A relay plus diode supression and it worked very well. However, I did not feel that there was a signifcant change in the sound quality as a result of using the SLA, and being that it does not fit inside the unit, I abandoned the idea. What I can do is build a regulated 12V using a toroid, schottky diodes, a clean 12V regulator, etc.
I'm not sure if there will be significant improvement though.

Like I mentioned, I've been so tied up with other stuff lately and haven't had a lot of time to evaluate the sound enough to write a detailed review. I am hoping that I will get all of tonight to listen and enjoy it without being distracted. I would say that by the end of the week, I will become pretty familiar with the sound and will be able to post a review.

Now, as far as Nic.M's post regarding removing the stock
op-amp(s), YOU NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL doing this :att'n: All I used was solder wick and a pair of tweezers, but I have a fair amount of experience with surface mount soldering and desoldering. If you are new to this, then I highly recommend that you find some junk boards that have surface mount chips and you practice removing many of them. You have to learn how to do it without lifting those delicate pads, and without overheating things and causing damage. :hot:
The same goes for installing the new surface mount op-amp(s). This is delicate work and you should practice if you are not familiar with surface mount work. I am no pro at it, but I've done it enough times to feel confident working with the lead-pitch of those opamps. As far as removing the multichannel dacs, this is even harder as the lead-pitch is very fine. Again, I used solder wick and tweezers, but it was very delicate work. All the other multichannel parts like caps, resistors, muting transistors, etc were all easily removed with solder wick. It took some time, but now I have a clean STEREO-ONLY board that has more room for other potential goodies 😀

As far as Aixer's post about the stereo outputs and the multichannel front outputs, they come from the same opamp (IC204) and share the same output decoupling caps (C245 and C246). They just have their own muting transistors and output RCA jacks, but their output circuits are the same (same components). I don't know why you would want use a larger cap for C245 and C246. You want a cap that is good for being in series with the audio signal. Using a big power supply cap here will probably do harm to the sound, maybe making the bass sloppy and smearing the treble, imaging, etc. You can try it and let us know, but I won't go that route.

That's all for now. I have to start re-evaluating the sound and figure out where I will go from here. I also want to try this player as a transport with my dAck to hear if the digital output has improved as a result of installing the black gate at C804, installing the new output jack, and all the power supply improvements. Should be fun 😎

Regards,

Vinnie
 
#73
Thxs Vinnie

Ok, the reason for the large caps is to give the bass more juice
so to say. But I think I will leave it at 47uF, all systems seem to use 47uF for that stage.


Can some do a test with the 2 set of output PLEASE, to me the sound
from the stereo out, does not sound the same as the front 5.1,
am I just going crazy!! what did the PS mod just like Vinnie with pan FC caps, and I use AD8620AR for the op amps instead of 0pa2604.

Have any one tried the both? what the sound like.
with the AD8620AR the sound good i guess I can't really describe it b/c
I did the mod with out even listening to the 4560 🙁, I got so excited
that I mod it out of the box LOL. I sould have powered it up and made sure it work first hehe... so I could return it if it is DOA.


My system: dv-563a > PPA (opa627ap) > hd-600 stock cable

The wierd thing is the the regular CD sounds better on my old
panasonic A320 dvd player? well I went into this thinking that the
sound sould be better on the dv-563a




thxs


kong
 
#74
Re: Thxs Vinnie

aixer said:
Ok, the reason for the large caps is to give the bass more juice
so to say. But I think I will leave it at 47uF, all systems seem to use 47uF for that stage.


Can some do a test with the 2 set of output PLEASE, to me the sound
from the stereo out, does not sound the same as the front 5.1,
am I just going crazy!! what did the PS mod just like Vinnie with pan FC caps, and I use AD8620AR for the op amps instead of 0pa2604.

Have any one tried the both? what the sound like.
with the AD8620AR the sound good i guess I can't really describe it b/c
I did the mod with out even listening to the 4560 🙁, I got so excited
that I mod it out of the box LOL. I sould have powered it up and made sure it work first hehe... so I could return it if it is DOA.


My system: dv-563a > PPA (opa627ap) > hd-600 stock cable

The wierd thing is the the regular CD sounds better on my old
panasonic A320 dvd player? well I went into this thinking that the
sound sould be better on the dv-563a




thxs


kong
Click to expand...



First you have to specify what "better sound" means to you. Ones you know that you can go ahead and make the player sound that way.
 
#76
Adding a new DAC chip

This thread seems to have gone dormant for the last little while.

I hope someone is awake and can help.

I have decided to add a separate linear psu, dac chip and new output stage to the existing equipment, rather than hack up what's already there.

As someone noticed earlier, the requisite lines for the dac are all accessible from the top of the board.

My question regards whether to buffer the lines to the new dac.
If so, how would be the best way and what parts would be optimal?

Regards,

Nic
 
#78
Hi David

Since the DSD1791 was about $8 from Digi-Key I decided to stay with it. I had a Soic to dual in line adaptor, so I thought it would be easier to build a new board with +5 and +3 subregulators for the dac and +/- 12 volts for the output stage that will be using an opa 2604 in complementary hookup, just like the one in the Burr Brown dsd1791 data sheet.

I have already got the linear psu made, using dual primary and dual secondary transformers (2) so I could use independent rectification of each secondary. This yields +8/+8 regulated with Lt 317s and +/- 15 regulated with 78xx and 79xx fixed regulators.

The board is made to fit the space in front of the switching psu. It's done and works. The dac and output board will float on a bracket next to the present outputs suspended from a bracket on the backplate. I already have this started with dual Sulzer subregulators for the +/- 12 and Lt 317 for +5 and +3 for the dac.

No output coupling caps, muting relays and new RCAs.

Buffering the lines to the dac chip is still an issue. Should I and how and with what.


N.
 
#79
Nic,

Buffering the digital lines or not is beyond my scope of knowledge. From what I've read, digital lines can sometimes be part science and part black art. I would agree that redoing the dac and analog section would be an improvement, but my guess (hope?) is that the analog section would make the biggest difference. My plan is to remove R231, R234, R238, and R242 and pick up the audio signals there.

Since you are sticking with the same dac, why not just keep the existing one on board and use your improved power supply to feed it?

I would like to see some pictures of your power supply. It sounds very similar to my plan.

--David
 
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