Re: Re: History of playstation - early adoptors
Greg,
I don´t agree bcs. the Dynastation is a simple PSOne SCPH-102 without any tweaking. The people at Musicconnection added an output stage with tubes/valves. They even refused to use the widely recommended SCPH-1002 in order to quantities available.
The Dynastation 1 is much cheaper, even the Dynastation 2 is cheaper. Ask your retailer ...
OTOH how much is your time, Greg?
I totally disagree.
Keith Aschenbrenner would have never used a stock Playstation as source if it would have been only decent
The unmodified Playstation SCPH-100x smashes most of the cd-players within the up to 1000 Euro range. All you need is
- good wiring,
- a good stand and
- (maybe) a new drive unit with respect to wear.
Take this for granted.
I won´t say not my cup of tea
Thesis:
Tweaking is an enormous waste of time and money.
Simple and carefully made modifications (like Mike_F´s for example) are much better in terms of cost-value ratio.
Question:
Why does a EMT927/930-valve-amplification-altec line-up never ask for hifi-tweaks?
Thank you so much for your understanding, great master of tweaks
BTW:
What kind of amplification do you have? Speakers? Room?
I am curious
Best,
Thomas
Greg Stewart said:
Greg,
I don´t agree bcs. the Dynastation is a simple PSOne SCPH-102 without any tweaking. The people at Musicconnection added an output stage with tubes/valves. They even refused to use the widely recommended SCPH-1002 in order to quantities available.
Greg Stewart said:
The Dynastation 1 is much cheaper, even the Dynastation 2 is cheaper. Ask your retailer ...
OTOH how much is your time, Greg?
Greg Stewart said:
I totally disagree.
Keith Aschenbrenner would have never used a stock Playstation as source if it would have been only decent
The unmodified Playstation SCPH-100x smashes most of the cd-players within the up to 1000 Euro range. All you need is
- good wiring,
- a good stand and
- (maybe) a new drive unit with respect to wear.
Take this for granted.
Greg Stewart said:
I won´t say not my cup of tea
Greg Stewart said:
Thesis:
Tweaking is an enormous waste of time and money.
Simple and carefully made modifications (like Mike_F´s for example) are much better in terms of cost-value ratio.
Question:
Why does a EMT927/930-valve-amplification-altec line-up never ask for hifi-tweaks?
Greg Stewart said:
Thank you so much for your understanding, great master of tweaks
BTW:
What kind of amplification do you have? Speakers? Room?
Greg Stewart said:
I am curious
Best,
Thomas
<snip>
The unmodified Playstation SCPH-100x smashes most of the cd-players within the up to 1000 Euro range. All you need is
- good wiring,
- a good stand and
- (maybe) a new drive unit with respect to wear.
</snip>
I think that is what Greg wrote except for the damping mat and the top of the case.
Btw. The scph 1002 is very sensitive to the cables. Which cables are suited best in your opinion?
The main thing is, that in my opinion the sound of the PS ist (partly) a matter of taste: The sound of the unmodified 1002 is very "analog" (not in the sense of "less detailed") but it is not "fast" and it has a remarkable bass rolloff. The PS is not neutral, it has a sound. I think it has more sound than a lot of other CDPs - or we are used to the sound of ordinary CDPs.
Dependent on what you search you will have the need to mod/tweak the PS. It is out of discussion that the PS is a good/very good/excellent CDP but because of its "sound" it polarises.
I personnaly like it very much even though I know that there are better CDPs in that age for that money. But these are harder to find.
The only things that I don't like is the mechanical instability and the bass rolloff. As far as I understood is it possible to get rid of the rolloff with the modification of the output stage.
Just my 2 0,01€
The unmodified Playstation SCPH-100x smashes most of the cd-players within the up to 1000 Euro range. All you need is
- good wiring,
- a good stand and
- (maybe) a new drive unit with respect to wear.
</snip>
I think that is what Greg wrote except for the damping mat and the top of the case.
Btw. The scph 1002 is very sensitive to the cables. Which cables are suited best in your opinion?
The main thing is, that in my opinion the sound of the PS ist (partly) a matter of taste: The sound of the unmodified 1002 is very "analog" (not in the sense of "less detailed") but it is not "fast" and it has a remarkable bass rolloff. The PS is not neutral, it has a sound. I think it has more sound than a lot of other CDPs - or we are used to the sound of ordinary CDPs.
Dependent on what you search you will have the need to mod/tweak the PS. It is out of discussion that the PS is a good/very good/excellent CDP but because of its "sound" it polarises.
I personnaly like it very much even though I know that there are better CDPs in that age for that money. But these are harder to find.
The only things that I don't like is the mechanical instability and the bass rolloff. As far as I understood is it possible to get rid of the rolloff with the modification of the output stage.
Just my 2 0,01€
I think that's the reason I love the PSX. It is the only CDP I have ever heard that sounds like vinyl. It has the "body" or "fullness" of vinyl. Call it musical if you like. If it's because it's "slow," then be so.
My Pioneer DVD player is faster, more focused. It also sounds tiny. It's not musical. It sounds exactly like every CDP I have ever heard, with the exception that more expensive CDPs have better dynamics.
The PSX sounds alive. CDPs sound dead. The PSX plays music. CDPs only reproduce a string of notes. Ever heard a mature virtuoso violin player? I'm not into classical music. But I can appreciate the relaxed sound of a violinist that is confident in what he does and doesn't need to "show off" like an up and comer. That's the PSX for me.
Floric said:
It´s not the cable itself which degrades the sound, it is the missing output buffer of the Playstation which causes the problems.
Things get better if your preamp-input has an input impedance of at least 20k, if not 47k. If not, you´ll need a buffer stage to meet the (too) high output impedance of the Playstation.
Floric said:
It is a matter of taste. Agreed.
Thomas
Floric said:
No, because good wiring, good stands and good maintenance is best practise, not tweaking. Read Greg´s recent posts, please.
Any differences?
Oh yes, let´s start with the cost
IMHO it is a shame that an awful lot of retailers make much more revenue with tweaks than everything else.
Thomas
thokra2003 said:
How true
Thomas
The polar SMT electrolytic that blocks DC in an unmodified PSone is 10uF. Worth replacing I found, though I'm not so sure that the 250pF on the output have to be removed. I'm sure they account for some of the PSone analog magic.
Has anyone looked inside a dynastation ? Is the output valve buffer taken from the Video/Cinch/RCA sockets or do they solder directly onto the mother board ?
jives11 said:
...
Has anyone looked inside a dynastation ? Is the output valve buffer taken from the Video/Cinch/RCA sockets or do they solder directly onto the mother board ?
The output is taken from the pcb. The controller is chopped to make contact to the switches, the off-board PSU is stock. The additional PSU is dedicated to the output stage. The coupling caps are audio grade.
FWIW it is not a Playstation, it is the (smaller and later) PSOne SCPH-102, which is NOT recommended for Hifi Use
Surprise, surprise.
Thomas
thokra2003 said:
The output is taken from the pcb. The controller is chopped to make contact to the switches, the off-board PSU is stock. The additional PSU is dedicated to the output stage. The coupling caps are audio grade.
FWIW it is not a Playstation, it is the (smaller and later) PSOne SCPH-102, which is NOT recommended for Hifi Use
Surprise, surprise.
Thomas
So the Dynstation is tweaked then
jives11 said:
It should be "tweaked" with respect to the higher price tag compared to the stock PSOne
Nevertheless it is essential concerning the processing of the signal from the drive (and as well the PSU) to the DAC.
Why should I call it tweaked then?
Because of the new body?
Because of two simple solder joints?
Because of the more convenient control?
IMHO you can add an output stage to every kind of source if needed. This is what Musical Fidelity had in mind with the ... (Sorry, I forget about the name).
Thomas
Re: Re: Re: History of playstation - early adoptors
So the dynastation is modified but not tweaked ?
Maybe I misunderstand what a tweak is and what a mod is. My personal understanding was that they were both the same thing i.e a change to a stock off-the-shelf product.
I wonder if Dynastation access the signal directly after the DAC as per the Mick_F mod, that would be a tweak/mod right ? If they don't they should as the Caps/transistors in the signal path are commodity components and not ideal. I experienced a very compressed sound on loud orchestral passages. The wimas helped a lot here.
I also think the Dynastation literature is a little misleading. They don't mention that it's based on a Playstation, but are happy to flaunt the various sony chips sets it uses, as if they were a dynastation design ? They also imply that the great sound is due to the DSP, but I *thought* that DSP is not used for CD replay ? If they sound great - good luck to Dynastation, they kind of kicked this whole thing off.
thokra2003 said:
So the dynastation is modified but not tweaked ?
Maybe I misunderstand what a tweak is and what a mod is. My personal understanding was that they were both the same thing i.e a change to a stock off-the-shelf product.
I wonder if Dynastation access the signal directly after the DAC as per the Mick_F mod, that would be a tweak/mod right ? If they don't they should as the Caps/transistors in the signal path are commodity components and not ideal. I experienced a very compressed sound on loud orchestral passages. The wimas helped a lot here.
I also think the Dynastation literature is a little misleading. They don't mention that it's based on a Playstation, but are happy to flaunt the various sony chips sets it uses, as if they were a dynastation design ? They also imply that the great sound is due to the DSP, but I *thought* that DSP is not used for CD replay ? If they sound great - good luck to Dynastation, they kind of kicked this whole thing off.
Re: Re: Re: Re: History of playstation - early adoptors
IMHO (just my 2 cents) the dynastation is a new product, based on a PSOne (the small one, not the Playstation) as the digital source. I´ve listened to it and I like it. I don´t like to make any comments on advertising.
All I´d like to express is the apparent basic and reasonable approach of music connection (makers of the Dynastation). This means, if you follow Mick-F´s modifications and you have the skills to build a nice buffer stage, you´ll get a fine CDP which is independent from the input impedance of the preamp.
There are at least three terms:
- replacement (of parts)
- modification
- tweak(ing)
I´d like to avoid the term tweaking because there are too much fakes with ultra high price tags. IMHO Mick_F modified the signal path and replaced the mediocre electrolytic caps with reasonable priced WIMA caps, which I´d like to recommend, too.
This is electronics, not cooking, please. We don´t need any spicey ingredients. IMHO I need a permanent improvement of my technical understanding and the skills to distinguish what is essential and what is ornamental (and pricey).
Let me add:
A maintained but stock playstation is one of the best CDPs you can get. The whole thing started with the stock version of the SCPH-1002. Keep it in mind.
Thomas
P.S.:
I am awaiting eagerly Greg´s next adventures of tweaking. Meanwhile I am listening to a stockpile of new CDs ...
jives11 said:
IMHO (just my 2 cents) the dynastation is a new product, based on a PSOne (the small one, not the Playstation) as the digital source. I´ve listened to it and I like it. I don´t like to make any comments on advertising.
All I´d like to express is the apparent basic and reasonable approach of music connection (makers of the Dynastation). This means, if you follow Mick-F´s modifications and you have the skills to build a nice buffer stage, you´ll get a fine CDP which is independent from the input impedance of the preamp.
There are at least three terms:
- replacement (of parts)
- modification
- tweak(ing)
I´d like to avoid the term tweaking because there are too much fakes with ultra high price tags. IMHO Mick_F modified the signal path and replaced the mediocre electrolytic caps with reasonable priced WIMA caps, which I´d like to recommend, too.
This is electronics, not cooking, please. We don´t need any spicey ingredients. IMHO I need a permanent improvement of my technical understanding and the skills to distinguish what is essential and what is ornamental (and pricey).
Let me add:
A maintained but stock playstation is one of the best CDPs you can get. The whole thing started with the stock version of the SCPH-1002. Keep it in mind.
Thomas
P.S.:
I am awaiting eagerly Greg´s next adventures of tweaking. Meanwhile I am listening to a stockpile of new CDs ...
Re: OFF TOPIC: Groundhogs
Sorry, I missed this. Too many entries. I only saw it because I looked for another post.
Anyway, the numbers are:
Split: 07243 584833 2 5
Thank Christ...: 07243 584823 2 4
I don't know if the first four figures mean anything, and I used to work in a friend's record store! That was back in the days of vinyl.
The CDs are worth picking up for the extra BBC material. But if you like the PSX, I don't think you will like these very much.
thokra2003 said:
Sorry, I missed this. Too many entries. I only saw it because I looked for another post.
Anyway, the numbers are:
Split: 07243 584833 2 5
Thank Christ...: 07243 584823 2 4
I don't know if the first four figures mean anything, and I used to work in a friend's record store! That was back in the days of vinyl.
The CDs are worth picking up for the extra BBC material. But if you like the PSX, I don't think you will like these very much.