Offset voltage at the DAC output...
I forgot to mention... since I have everything hanging out, I measured the offset voltage at the DAC. Its almost 3V! YOU DEFINITELY DON"T WANT TO USE THIS WITHOUT AN OUTPUT COUPLING CAP UNLESS THE INPUT OF THE NEXT STAGE HAS ONE!!!!! This is equipment/speaker-killing level!
Greg in Minneapolis
P.S. OTOH, this is a good thing... when used as coupling caps, most caps sound better if they have a voltage on the input.
I forgot to mention... since I have everything hanging out, I measured the offset voltage at the DAC. Its almost 3V! YOU DEFINITELY DON"T WANT TO USE THIS WITHOUT AN OUTPUT COUPLING CAP UNLESS THE INPUT OF THE NEXT STAGE HAS ONE!!!!! This is equipment/speaker-killing level!
Greg in Minneapolis
P.S. OTOH, this is a good thing... when used as coupling caps, most caps sound better if they have a voltage on the input.
Re: Offset voltage at the DAC output...
You learn something new everyday!
Cheers Greg
Crikey!Greg Stewart said:
Greg Stewart said:
You learn something new everyday!
Cheers Greg
Call me a lazy ***, but I got confused after about five pages and gave up.
What is involved in modifying a PS1 into a decent CD player?
Can an inexperienced person with some soldering skill accomplish it? And can the inputs be put through relays relatively easily? (I'm hoping to use a microcontroller in my stereo to control most of it; I figure that a relay in place of some buttons should'nt be too hard.)
What is involved in modifying a PS1 into a decent CD player?
Can an inexperienced person with some soldering skill accomplish it? And can the inputs be put through relays relatively easily? (I'm hoping to use a microcontroller in my stereo to control most of it; I figure that a relay in place of some buttons should'nt be too hard.)
This has been posted here before, but... PSX
As for decent. I think it's more an issue of personal taste. The German Shindo/Platine Verdier crowd discovered the PSX. Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 reportedly uses one. I believe those people don't even tweak it. But then, they probably don't post here either😎
As for decent. I think it's more an issue of personal taste. The German Shindo/Platine Verdier crowd discovered the PSX. Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 reportedly uses one. I believe those people don't even tweak it. But then, they probably don't post here either😎
Greg, sorry, my mistake. It should be the 2.2 uF AND 1 uF electrolytics on the SMPS. (They look the same.) I was thinking OS-CON or tantalum. I don't know if they make a difference, not to mention that there doesn't seem to be any OS-CON or tantalum rated as high as 50V. But considering the bigger electrolytics are 16V, 30 respective 35 volts might do.
You mean replacing all diodes, or just the D001-D1004? Would it be a bad idea to heat shrink tube the inductor? I've seen it done on T-amps. It's going to get really crowded around it with TO220 rectifiers and bigger caps.
Why as high as 50-100k on the output? According to Mick_F's measurements, 22k should be enough for 3 or 3.3 uF. It's not that the 100k resistor is a problem. I try to understand why.
The 4.7 uF Auricap is popular as output coupling caps on DIY DACs, if I remember. I can very well appreciate high value caps. But 100 uF? Different things perhaps, but for the Sonic Impact T-amp everybody says there's no use for more than 2.2 uF. So you say a 10 uF Wonder cap is better than a 3 uF Wonder cap?
You mean replacing all diodes, or just the D001-D1004? Would it be a bad idea to heat shrink tube the inductor? I've seen it done on T-amps. It's going to get really crowded around it with TO220 rectifiers and bigger caps.
Why as high as 50-100k on the output? According to Mick_F's measurements, 22k should be enough for 3 or 3.3 uF. It's not that the 100k resistor is a problem. I try to understand why.
The 4.7 uF Auricap is popular as output coupling caps on DIY DACs, if I remember. I can very well appreciate high value caps. But 100 uF? Different things perhaps, but for the Sonic Impact T-amp everybody says there's no use for more than 2.2 uF. So you say a 10 uF Wonder cap is better than a 3 uF Wonder cap?
phn said:
I'd make sure to match the voltage rating of the orignal caps. Oscons should be good... as would BG's, Rubycon ZA/ZL, and some of the good poly caps such as the Auricaps.
In the 7501 SMPS schematic posted a page or so back, I was looking at D001 - D004, D011, D101, and D102. Just like with the caps, I'd be sure to use equal or better-rated diodes of the same type. And tracking down cross-references for the parts, they are hi-test diodes, so replacements might not produce much difference (as Thomas suggested in response to a post of mine a few pages back). Still, the tweaking companies do replace those diodes, so I figure it's worth a try.
See my post about 12-14 posts back.
Well, 100uf makes sure that the LF Cutoff is very low. But it'd be an expensive high-quality cap!
Still, a 4.7uf Auricap would be very good as an output cap on the PS-I's.
As for a 10uf Wondercap versus the 4uf I used, I was thinking I noticed a slight reduction in bass extension and power with the 4uf... honestly, I don't know if it'll really make a difference in my system and if you have less bass extesion than mine (maybe 35-40hz in my room), then I'd expect little or no diff.
As for a 2.2uf at the input of the T-amp, it's a matter of the impedence that it's working into... if it's working into a high value R (100k, 1M), then 2.2uf is plenty big. If it's working into 10K, then you might want something larger.
Later!
Greg in Minneapolis
Re: PS-1 Mod Summary...
Hi Greg,
thanks for your comprehensive list of modifications. The number of variations doesn´t match with my amount of time I´d like to dedicate to my playstations 😉
Remember the three famous qoutes of Picasso:
- I don not seek, I find.
- Everything you can imagine is real.
- Art is the elimination of the unnecessary
These might help 🙂
Cheers,
Thomas
Greg Stewart said:
Hi Greg,
thanks for your comprehensive list of modifications. The number of variations doesn´t match with my amount of time I´d like to dedicate to my playstations 😉
Remember the three famous qoutes of Picasso:
- I don not seek, I find.
- Everything you can imagine is real.
- Art is the elimination of the unnecessary
These might help 🙂
Cheers,
Thomas
OFF TOPIC: Groundhogs
Thanks for your advice. Can you name the complete codes of the 2 Groundhog CDs, please? I´d try to get unprotected CDs.
Thomas
phn said:
Thanks for your advice. Can you name the complete codes of the 2 Groundhog CDs, please? I´d try to get unprotected CDs.
Thomas
ttrentt said:
IMHO this is a WIMA MKS-2 Polyester Film Capacitor. See
http://www.wima.com/mks2.htm
for details.
Thomas
ttrentt said:
ttrentt said:
The WIMA MKS-2 Caps are superior to any kind of electrolytic capacitor including the expensive BGs. The range ends with 10µF/16V.
I´d like to recommend the Vishay MKT 1826 (former ERO), too. The range ends with 3.3µF/50V AFAIK.
Thomas
Re: Fixed my Primo unit today!
They seemed to be addicted to each other 😉
Thomas
Greg Stewart said:
They seemed to be addicted to each other 😉
Thomas
Re: Offset voltage at the DAC output...
HIGHLY agreed, Greg !!!
IMHO this applies to ´lytics, only. And it is a MUST HAVE to polar caps, too.
Thomas
Greg Stewart said:
HIGHLY agreed, Greg !!!
Greg Stewart said:
IMHO this applies to ´lytics, only. And it is a MUST HAVE to polar caps, too.
Thomas
Don´t make a mistake ...
NOTHING, because the stock playstation is already a brilliant CD player. Read the last posts carefully and you´ll notice that ALO contributors are happy without modifications.
As I posted lately the adventures of Greg "I mod everything" Stewart are misleading (post #690). Even in terms of the holistic approach.
Maybe you have to replace the drive to get satification. Maybe you have to drill holes to drain the heat of the PSU. That´s all.
Thomas
I have components to listen to music, not music to listen to components 😉
Greg Stewart said:
Spasticteapot said:
NOTHING, because the stock playstation is already a brilliant CD player. Read the last posts carefully and you´ll notice that ALO contributors are happy without modifications.
As I posted lately the adventures of Greg "I mod everything" Stewart are misleading (post #690). Even in terms of the holistic approach.
Maybe you have to replace the drive to get satification. Maybe you have to drill holes to drain the heat of the PSU. That´s all.
Thomas
I have components to listen to music, not music to listen to components 😉
Hi,
Has anyone built his own PSU for the Playstation yet? I remember that there were some post on this topic a couple of months ago.
Any experiences to share?
Dave
Has anyone built his own PSU for the Playstation yet? I remember that there were some post on this topic a couple of months ago.
Any experiences to share?
Dave
History of playstation - early adoptors
Let me add:
Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 used a Playstation SCPH-1002 in public at the German High End 2000. The rumours emerged a year before. Roman Groß of Musicconnection started to design the Dynastation in 1998.
http://www.auditorium-23.de/Welcome/Intro.html
http://www.musicconnection.de/pdf/dynastation_GB.pdf
Thomas
phn said:
Let me add:
Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 used a Playstation SCPH-1002 in public at the German High End 2000. The rumours emerged a year before. Roman Groß of Musicconnection started to design the Dynastation in 1998.
http://www.auditorium-23.de/Welcome/Intro.html
http://www.musicconnection.de/pdf/dynastation_GB.pdf
Thomas
Another rant.
thokra2003 makes a very valid point. I won't modify my current PSX. I don't want risk ruin my favourite CD player. That I'll save for my next one.
The way I see it, if you don't think the stock PSX is the best CD player you have ever heard (bass roll-off included), forget it. I believe mods can make a difference. But I don't think modification will make a less-than-great CD player great. It will only make it a little less less-than-great.
In another thread somebody wrote something in the line that CDPs are so 1990s. I agree. The CD is obsolete. It's history. And nobody will remember the SACD and DVD-A a year from now. If the CD is a has-been, those are never-weres. Junji Kimura of 47 Laboratory once said CDs are so poorly made they shouldn't even be played. They are, after all, made by the lowest bidder. Asynchronous playback is now. No reading errors. A 300 GB HDD holds about 500 CDs. There's no need to compress the CDs to mp3 format unless you intend them for a portable player. If you have more than 500 CDs, get more HDDs. All you need is an old PC and you have the best transport money can buy. Linn sells one for $20,000 under the name of Knekt Kivor!
The PSX and Garrard 301 are the only pieces in my sound system that will be with me for life. (I expect to have my amp and speakers replaced/upgraded several times.) I would consider an EMT 927 an upgrade, but I wouldn't trade the PSX for any CD player out there. The PSX is everything I want from audio, except for the annoying start-up tune. So for me there are lots of reasons to put in the effort on the PSX, including the fact that the CD is dead. It's time to move on to greener pastures. "Let the dead bury their dead."
thokra2003 makes a very valid point. I won't modify my current PSX. I don't want risk ruin my favourite CD player. That I'll save for my next one.
The way I see it, if you don't think the stock PSX is the best CD player you have ever heard (bass roll-off included), forget it. I believe mods can make a difference. But I don't think modification will make a less-than-great CD player great. It will only make it a little less less-than-great.
In another thread somebody wrote something in the line that CDPs are so 1990s. I agree. The CD is obsolete. It's history. And nobody will remember the SACD and DVD-A a year from now. If the CD is a has-been, those are never-weres. Junji Kimura of 47 Laboratory once said CDs are so poorly made they shouldn't even be played. They are, after all, made by the lowest bidder. Asynchronous playback is now. No reading errors. A 300 GB HDD holds about 500 CDs. There's no need to compress the CDs to mp3 format unless you intend them for a portable player. If you have more than 500 CDs, get more HDDs. All you need is an old PC and you have the best transport money can buy. Linn sells one for $20,000 under the name of Knekt Kivor!
The PSX and Garrard 301 are the only pieces in my sound system that will be with me for life. (I expect to have my amp and speakers replaced/upgraded several times.) I would consider an EMT 927 an upgrade, but I wouldn't trade the PSX for any CD player out there. The PSX is everything I want from audio, except for the annoying start-up tune. So for me there are lots of reasons to put in the effort on the PSX, including the fact that the CD is dead. It's time to move on to greener pastures. "Let the dead bury their dead."
phn said:
I agree. The future is streamed media and music. An old hifi friend who has had good systems since the late 70's now only listens via squeezebox2. My Children will not have a first hifi system in the way I did. They'll just plug speakers into a PC.
The down side of this is that we will all become obsessed with the good health of our HDD's. I have two boys who are both active PC Gamers. I have replaced several hard drives over the last 4 years and spend my time monitoring if any bad blocks have been reported or how the S.M.A.R.T logs look. a simple bad block in the wrong place and you can loose a lot of CD's (assuming you are not backing up with Norton Ghost, tar, cpio or whatever). Mirroring and RAID will become the new audio topics of conversation - a shame as these are what I do at work too 😉
i agree.. i have put all of my music onto my pc and usually just play it from there.. audio files seem to easily corrupt.. lucky i have all the music on cd aswell so if i find a bad song on there i just replace it from cd.. no problem really.. 🙂 CD's still have their place though..
Owen
Owen
Re: History of playstation - early adoptors
I think those are valid opinions... and I think another valid opinion is that expressed by people like those at Music Connection, Experience Electronics, and those who buy their products... They seem to think that the PS has a lot of promise, but can be made better... and they put their money on it.
And then there are people like Mick F, Michael M, and myself... we also think the PS has a lot of promise, but we aren't willing to plunk down 3000 Euro for a Dynastation and have the inclination and skills to do it ourselves, so we do.
IMHO, the PS-1 totally stock is an ok CDP... as good as the best $100 Euro or so CDP/DVD player. With a few simple mods (really tweaks more than mods... see below) I think it stands out among models 2x-3x that. And if you are willing and able to dig in, I think it competes with the $1000 Euro and up crowd.
I'm very happy to have a 'Very Good' class CD player (1000 Euro and up) for my 50 Euro or so investment... and I'm very curious to see where I can take it!
Basic tweaks I recommend:
1. Place it on competent vibration control devices. Cones, compliant feet, pneumatic devices, rollerballs, magnetic devices, whatever you fancy. I'm using three Navcom pucks and a 2 lb block of lead on the chassis.
2. Take the top off. This isn't for everyone... the AC is exposed (cover it with heatshrink or tape if that is dangerous in your household) and it is beyond ugly at this point. The CD drive can fall off and break if you knock it over or handle it roughly, Also, you have to wedge something into the hole to activate the case-closed switch.
3. Find a PS-2 remote control adapter so you don't have to have the controller hanging out.
4. Use some sort of CD damper. I've got the Ah! De Mat, the old Sumiko blue mat, a plastic/felt CD Absolver, and Herbie's Grungebuster 1 and 2. In my system, with the player at this level, I preferred the Absolver slightly above the Sumiko mat. Both of the Grungebusters were competent, but didn't let through the soul of the music as well at this level... but I prefer them now that I've taken my player farther than this. And De Mat was just ok.
If you are happy with the sound of the PS-1 stock, great. I won't argue with you or tell you there's something wrong with you. But I'm not... and know that I can make it sound MUCH better... and have. Really, I've heard some systems at the 50,000 - 100,000 Euro level (actually, the USD equivalent). I liked them and what they did. And I'm never gonna have that kind of cash to put out... so I'd rather put 50 euro into my Franken-Playstation, get a good fraction of the way to the big bux system, and put whatever else I have to spend into music.
To be continued...
Greg in Minneapolis
thokra2003 said:
phn said:
I think those are valid opinions... and I think another valid opinion is that expressed by people like those at Music Connection, Experience Electronics, and those who buy their products... They seem to think that the PS has a lot of promise, but can be made better... and they put their money on it.
And then there are people like Mick F, Michael M, and myself... we also think the PS has a lot of promise, but we aren't willing to plunk down 3000 Euro for a Dynastation and have the inclination and skills to do it ourselves, so we do.
IMHO, the PS-1 totally stock is an ok CDP... as good as the best $100 Euro or so CDP/DVD player. With a few simple mods (really tweaks more than mods... see below) I think it stands out among models 2x-3x that. And if you are willing and able to dig in, I think it competes with the $1000 Euro and up crowd.
I'm very happy to have a 'Very Good' class CD player (1000 Euro and up) for my 50 Euro or so investment... and I'm very curious to see where I can take it!
Basic tweaks I recommend:
1. Place it on competent vibration control devices. Cones, compliant feet, pneumatic devices, rollerballs, magnetic devices, whatever you fancy. I'm using three Navcom pucks and a 2 lb block of lead on the chassis.
2. Take the top off. This isn't for everyone... the AC is exposed (cover it with heatshrink or tape if that is dangerous in your household) and it is beyond ugly at this point. The CD drive can fall off and break if you knock it over or handle it roughly, Also, you have to wedge something into the hole to activate the case-closed switch.
3. Find a PS-2 remote control adapter so you don't have to have the controller hanging out.
4. Use some sort of CD damper. I've got the Ah! De Mat, the old Sumiko blue mat, a plastic/felt CD Absolver, and Herbie's Grungebuster 1 and 2. In my system, with the player at this level, I preferred the Absolver slightly above the Sumiko mat. Both of the Grungebusters were competent, but didn't let through the soul of the music as well at this level... but I prefer them now that I've taken my player farther than this. And De Mat was just ok.
If you are happy with the sound of the PS-1 stock, great. I won't argue with you or tell you there's something wrong with you. But I'm not... and know that I can make it sound MUCH better... and have. Really, I've heard some systems at the 50,000 - 100,000 Euro level (actually, the USD equivalent). I liked them and what they did. And I'm never gonna have that kind of cash to put out... so I'd rather put 50 euro into my Franken-Playstation, get a good fraction of the way to the big bux system, and put whatever else I have to spend into music.
To be continued...
Greg in Minneapolis
Two remarkable things I've heard with the Franken-Playstation...
One is with the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions. I remember a review in the Absolute Sound (not sure if it was of the recording or of a piece of gear using that recording) where they talk about hearing the sounds of nearby subway trains in the background of the recording venue. With the FPS, I could clearly hear the sounds of the trains.
The other is with Keith Jarrett's Koln Concert... I heard audience noise/talking in the background early in the first piece... never heard that before with any other CDP or with my vinyl setup.
It's that GOOD!
Greg in Minneapolis
One is with the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions. I remember a review in the Absolute Sound (not sure if it was of the recording or of a piece of gear using that recording) where they talk about hearing the sounds of nearby subway trains in the background of the recording venue. With the FPS, I could clearly hear the sounds of the trains.
The other is with Keith Jarrett's Koln Concert... I heard audience noise/talking in the background early in the first piece... never heard that before with any other CDP or with my vinyl setup.
It's that GOOD!
Greg in Minneapolis