I added more pictures of the first finished pair of speakers. My friend finished his. I am next in line to stain mine (i started last). I am quite satisfied with the sound of Thor... Here is my listening experience:
Room wasn't quite ideal, so I am not sure how the effects of the room had on the sound. When they were first fired up, I immediately noticed the increased detail over my old speakers and my friends old speakers. They are much faster and accurate sounding with great imaging. The initial sound was a little lacking in bass, and was a little harsh on the highs, but quite good sounding. After letting them play by themselves for 8 hours, and going back to them, they sounded much, much better. Most of the harshness was gone, and the bass was now much more evident. They are very accurate and took well to anything that I played on them. They were very neutral, and I couldn't find anything that I didn't like about them. We tried all kinds of music, and I was suprised how they sounded. One of my friends was used to having a sub in his car, so he was quite disappointed at the lack of bass at first, but by the end of the day, and a lot of listening, he decided that they had just the right amount of bass, and that the detail was amazing. I can't wait to finish mine, and fully break them in and try them in my place. There was one thing that I was disappointed at... They really bring out the quality of the recording. Playing some old rolling stones (new remasters), and some led zepplin, you definately could tell the quality of the source was lacking. Nevertheless, there is still great imaging on the remastered rolling stones, and I was quite satisfied. I realize that this isn't much of a review, but I haven't really spent enough time with the speakers yet to accurately judge how they sound. I was really impressed, and I definately find them worth the money and time that I have spent so far on them.
Girlfriend's review.... "all those speakers sound the same... they do look a lot nicer then the old ones though"
They were just powered by a 2 channel leach amp. Once I get mine finished, along with my aleph 2, I will do a comparison of the two amps. I should get my speakers totally finished in a couple of weeks. I have only been able to working on sundays lately, due to the girlfriend getting upset at me spending all my time on my projects... and it is her birthday next weekend.
Here is a picture of a finished speaker. There are more on my site that I just added... just go to http://brian.darg.net/thor
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Brian
Room wasn't quite ideal, so I am not sure how the effects of the room had on the sound. When they were first fired up, I immediately noticed the increased detail over my old speakers and my friends old speakers. They are much faster and accurate sounding with great imaging. The initial sound was a little lacking in bass, and was a little harsh on the highs, but quite good sounding. After letting them play by themselves for 8 hours, and going back to them, they sounded much, much better. Most of the harshness was gone, and the bass was now much more evident. They are very accurate and took well to anything that I played on them. They were very neutral, and I couldn't find anything that I didn't like about them. We tried all kinds of music, and I was suprised how they sounded. One of my friends was used to having a sub in his car, so he was quite disappointed at the lack of bass at first, but by the end of the day, and a lot of listening, he decided that they had just the right amount of bass, and that the detail was amazing. I can't wait to finish mine, and fully break them in and try them in my place. There was one thing that I was disappointed at... They really bring out the quality of the recording. Playing some old rolling stones (new remasters), and some led zepplin, you definately could tell the quality of the source was lacking. Nevertheless, there is still great imaging on the remastered rolling stones, and I was quite satisfied. I realize that this isn't much of a review, but I haven't really spent enough time with the speakers yet to accurately judge how they sound. I was really impressed, and I definately find them worth the money and time that I have spent so far on them.
Girlfriend's review.... "all those speakers sound the same... they do look a lot nicer then the old ones though"
They were just powered by a 2 channel leach amp. Once I get mine finished, along with my aleph 2, I will do a comparison of the two amps. I should get my speakers totally finished in a couple of weeks. I have only been able to working on sundays lately, due to the girlfriend getting upset at me spending all my time on my projects... and it is her birthday next weekend.
Here is a picture of a finished speaker. There are more on my site that I just added... just go to http://brian.darg.net/thor
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Brian
Attachments
fcel,
The point of this project is something that I spend hours (many hours) and make by myself. I will probably spend over 100 hours on the speakers by the time that I finish them. If I was to buy a cabinet and assemble them in a day, what would this accomplish? I am actually enjoying woodworking more then building amplifiers. It is a new form of addiction, and leads to compulsive spending for new tools... (bought a plunge router attachment yesterday)
The quality of the cabinet that I built is much higher. The madisound cabinet is made of mdf covered in veneer. I made mine of mdf covered in solid oak. It is much heavier and more solid. I really like the finished appearence of the red oak. If I was frugal, I could have finished the speakers for under $1000, and just use mdf covered in cheap veneer, but I wanted something that I could use for many years and be proud to show people as my first speaker.
My friend made a couple of mistakes with his that I improved on. First, he didn't sand the wood enough, and the milling marks of the solid oak are still apparent. Second, he didn't quite make the tweeters on the baffle flush.
I kind of like this picture...
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Brian
The point of this project is something that I spend hours (many hours) and make by myself. I will probably spend over 100 hours on the speakers by the time that I finish them. If I was to buy a cabinet and assemble them in a day, what would this accomplish? I am actually enjoying woodworking more then building amplifiers. It is a new form of addiction, and leads to compulsive spending for new tools... (bought a plunge router attachment yesterday)
The quality of the cabinet that I built is much higher. The madisound cabinet is made of mdf covered in veneer. I made mine of mdf covered in solid oak. It is much heavier and more solid. I really like the finished appearence of the red oak. If I was frugal, I could have finished the speakers for under $1000, and just use mdf covered in cheap veneer, but I wanted something that I could use for many years and be proud to show people as my first speaker.
My friend made a couple of mistakes with his that I improved on. First, he didn't sand the wood enough, and the milling marks of the solid oak are still apparent. Second, he didn't quite make the tweeters on the baffle flush.
I kind of like this picture...
--
Brian
Attachments
Brian,
I kind of expected that you were building the box from scratch because you WANT to. I'll be checking with you in the future in regards to the cost and type of tools that one needs to buy in order to build speakers.
From your description of the sound quality, it looks like it sounded pretty good. I always believe in "first impression" when it comes to sound.
So, what would you say are the major differences (or challenges?) between building amps and speakers ... other than one is metal and the other is wood.
I kind of expected that you were building the box from scratch because you WANT to. I'll be checking with you in the future in regards to the cost and type of tools that one needs to buy in order to build speakers.
From your description of the sound quality, it looks like it sounded pretty good. I always believe in "first impression" when it comes to sound.
So, what would you say are the major differences (or challenges?) between building amps and speakers ... other than one is metal and the other is wood.
Yep. I love building speakers. It is my newest obsession. It puts my amplifier projects even farther on the back shelf.
As far as first impression, they usually seem accurate for me. I have gone to a few high-end audio stores, as well as chain stores like hifi buys (hate this store). I have listened to quite a few kinds of speakers over the last few months (before I decided to build them), and I had a hard time finding a pair that I was satisified with. I liked the highend JM Labs speakers (focal), and the upper B&W. They were my favorites of all that I listened to, and they were quite different from each other. I never found a pair of speakers that I was reasonably satisified for under $3-5k. I almost bought the JM labs speakers ($3k). Trying different music on the most speakers that I listened to speakers always seemed to reveil some sort of flaw in the sound of the speaker to me. Thor hasn't seemed to have any flaws yet. It seems to keep up with fast metal music, bring out the great guitar solos, bring out the bass line while keeping the vocals.
differences...
The thing that I like best about wood is that it is easy to cut. I have no tools to effectively cut aluminum to make nice chassis. All that I have is a jigsaw, which doesn't make pretty edges. I have to spend hours grinding them decently with a dremel tool. If I happen to mess up on wood, I can later on sand the $#$&(#& out of it and it will come out looking good in the end.
Speakers are more like furniture. A pair of speakers nicely done seems to tie the room together.
challenges...
Investment in tools. I used a lot of my friend's tools, so this wasn't much of a problem. Here is a list of tools that I feel is absoluted necessary if you are building speakers:
-Table saw: would have been impossible to get nice square boxes without. Cost: $300 for a decent one (you be the judge)
-Router: I used my friends porter cable fixed router to shape and round the edges. I later bought the plunge router attachment for this router. It works miracles along with the jasper jig Cost: $199
-Router bits: roundover bit, trim bit, 1/4" bit for cutting with jasper jig, 3/4" bit for making woofer indentations
-Jasper Jig: If you want perfect circle opening everytime, this is the way to go. I didn't buy this until I finished the speaker opening for my speakers.. I wish I did. It worked miracles for cutting the holes for the braces of my subwoofer project.
-Cordless drill: pilot and countersinking holes, as well as screwing the boxes together. Cost: $100
-Liquid Nails: This and screws works miracles for mdf.
-Orbital palm sander: This is all that you really need to sand the boxes. $??? I didn't buy one.. borrowed my friend's porter cable
-Clamps.. lots of clamps. I prefer Quick-Grip clamps, but they are $20+ each. I bought 6 of these, and used some of my friends also.
-Safety glasses, dust mask and ear plugs: I forget to wear the dust mask a lot (except when working with mdf), and I could tell the next day how it effected my respiratory system. I would recommend doing this. I didn't really wear ear plugs, but they are highly recommended by others. Using a router, saws and sander for most the day is not good for your ears...
I might have forgotten some tools, but this should cover the essentials.
Building amplifiers has been limited to me. I have many case designs that involve cut aluminum, and I just don't have the equipment to follow through. (metal supermarkets does cut to a close size, but this doesn't fully do it).
--
Brian
As far as first impression, they usually seem accurate for me. I have gone to a few high-end audio stores, as well as chain stores like hifi buys (hate this store). I have listened to quite a few kinds of speakers over the last few months (before I decided to build them), and I had a hard time finding a pair that I was satisified with. I liked the highend JM Labs speakers (focal), and the upper B&W. They were my favorites of all that I listened to, and they were quite different from each other. I never found a pair of speakers that I was reasonably satisified for under $3-5k. I almost bought the JM labs speakers ($3k). Trying different music on the most speakers that I listened to speakers always seemed to reveil some sort of flaw in the sound of the speaker to me. Thor hasn't seemed to have any flaws yet. It seems to keep up with fast metal music, bring out the great guitar solos, bring out the bass line while keeping the vocals.
differences...
The thing that I like best about wood is that it is easy to cut. I have no tools to effectively cut aluminum to make nice chassis. All that I have is a jigsaw, which doesn't make pretty edges. I have to spend hours grinding them decently with a dremel tool. If I happen to mess up on wood, I can later on sand the $#$&(#& out of it and it will come out looking good in the end.
Speakers are more like furniture. A pair of speakers nicely done seems to tie the room together.
challenges...
Investment in tools. I used a lot of my friend's tools, so this wasn't much of a problem. Here is a list of tools that I feel is absoluted necessary if you are building speakers:
-Table saw: would have been impossible to get nice square boxes without. Cost: $300 for a decent one (you be the judge)
-Router: I used my friends porter cable fixed router to shape and round the edges. I later bought the plunge router attachment for this router. It works miracles along with the jasper jig Cost: $199
-Router bits: roundover bit, trim bit, 1/4" bit for cutting with jasper jig, 3/4" bit for making woofer indentations
-Jasper Jig: If you want perfect circle opening everytime, this is the way to go. I didn't buy this until I finished the speaker opening for my speakers.. I wish I did. It worked miracles for cutting the holes for the braces of my subwoofer project.
-Cordless drill: pilot and countersinking holes, as well as screwing the boxes together. Cost: $100
-Liquid Nails: This and screws works miracles for mdf.
-Orbital palm sander: This is all that you really need to sand the boxes. $??? I didn't buy one.. borrowed my friend's porter cable
-Clamps.. lots of clamps. I prefer Quick-Grip clamps, but they are $20+ each. I bought 6 of these, and used some of my friends also.
-Safety glasses, dust mask and ear plugs: I forget to wear the dust mask a lot (except when working with mdf), and I could tell the next day how it effected my respiratory system. I would recommend doing this. I didn't really wear ear plugs, but they are highly recommended by others. Using a router, saws and sander for most the day is not good for your ears...
I might have forgotten some tools, but this should cover the essentials.
Building amplifiers has been limited to me. I have many case designs that involve cut aluminum, and I just don't have the equipment to follow through. (metal supermarkets does cut to a close size, but this doesn't fully do it).
--
Brian
Brian,
Thanks for the detail response. As usual, I'll bookmark this thread so that I know I'll be able to find it when I'm ready to build speakers.
Keep us posted when you have done more serious listening to your Thor speakers and I see on another thread that you're also building a subwoofer. Now that you got most of the tools ... I know it must be fun.
Thanks for the detail response. As usual, I'll bookmark this thread so that I know I'll be able to find it when I'm ready to build speakers.
Keep us posted when you have done more serious listening to your Thor speakers and I see on another thread that you're also building a subwoofer. Now that you got most of the tools ... I know it must be fun.
Great speakers. they turned out very cool looking.
Thanks for all the pictures posted in your website.
Do you have some info about how you got the oak on the mdf ?
It´s something that interests me. I want to make some speakers and don´t know how to "dress" them with wood look.
Thanks for all the pictures posted in your website.
Do you have some info about how you got the oak on the mdf ?
It´s something that interests me. I want to make some speakers and don´t know how to "dress" them with wood look.
For making the mdf cabinet, I just used liquid nails and screws. \For putting the oak over the mdf, I just used lots of wood glue, clamped them together and let them sit overnight. By using lots of clamps, they have a really close fit.
I actually used red oak plywood for the side panels, and the solid oak for the top, front and back.
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Brian
I actually used red oak plywood for the side panels, and the solid oak for the top, front and back.
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Brian
Finishing Oak
Brian-
First of all, very nice. I recently completed a pair of t-line speakers of my own design (www.geocities.com/bunkie21) and I couldn't be happier.
With respect to finishing oak, the main consideration is that oak has an open grain. The figure running through the oak will absorb more of the stain's particulate matter, making them darker. The darke the stain, the more pronounced this effect. I tend to like Minwood's "natural" color stain (which is very light in color) followed by water-based polyurethane. Another good topcoat is to use a spray-can lacquer. It's not as durable as poly, but it looks wonderful with none of the "plasticy" quality that poly sometimes produces.
An alternative to using stain is wood dye. Dyes are available in water-based or alcohol-based form. I like the alcohol-based stains because they won't raise the grain and require subsequent sanding as the the water-based dyes will.
Brian-
First of all, very nice. I recently completed a pair of t-line speakers of my own design (www.geocities.com/bunkie21) and I couldn't be happier.
With respect to finishing oak, the main consideration is that oak has an open grain. The figure running through the oak will absorb more of the stain's particulate matter, making them darker. The darke the stain, the more pronounced this effect. I tend to like Minwood's "natural" color stain (which is very light in color) followed by water-based polyurethane. Another good topcoat is to use a spray-can lacquer. It's not as durable as poly, but it looks wonderful with none of the "plasticy" quality that poly sometimes produces.
An alternative to using stain is wood dye. Dyes are available in water-based or alcohol-based form. I like the alcohol-based stains because they won't raise the grain and require subsequent sanding as the the water-based dyes will.
Nice speakers. I am looking for a cheaper transmission line, with a similar chassis as Thor, but maybe just TM, like yours.
As far as the staining, the milling lines stand out because he didn't sand it enough. I sanded mine much more, and they are gone. You could see them before the stain was applied. I considered doing mine natural color, but I really like the color of my friends. The pictures don't totally convey the color of the speakers. They are not too plastic looking, and are quite nice. He put a lot of coats of water based polyurethane, and it is quite smooth.
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Brian
just noticed that this is my 500th post
As far as the staining, the milling lines stand out because he didn't sand it enough. I sanded mine much more, and they are gone. You could see them before the stain was applied. I considered doing mine natural color, but I really like the color of my friends. The pictures don't totally convey the color of the speakers. They are not too plastic looking, and are quite nice. He put a lot of coats of water based polyurethane, and it is quite smooth.
--
Brian
just noticed that this is my 500th post
Thanks for all the construction info.
Hey Bunkie, nice site and nice speakers you made there.
Cool.
Hey Bunkie, nice site and nice speakers you made there.
Cool.
BrianGT,
Congratulations. Beautiful job, especially for your first speaker.. They look great. I think that the Thors may be somewhere in my future, and be sure I'll build my own boxes. I'll be happy if they turn out this good! Congrads also on the 500 posts.
Joe
Congratulations. Beautiful job, especially for your first speaker.. They look great. I think that the Thors may be somewhere in my future, and be sure I'll build my own boxes. I'll be happy if they turn out this good! Congrads also on the 500 posts.
Joe
Nice job on the speakers, Brian, and it gave me some ideas for construction of my next project. Thanks for taking the time and documenting your project and construction with us.
Best regards,
Jon
Best regards,
Jon
Brian,
Do you have any plans for taking your new speakers into Dr. Leach or Dr. Patronis' audio labs for measurements?
jt
Do you have any plans for taking your new speakers into Dr. Leach or Dr. Patronis' audio labs for measurements?
jt
Thanks for the complements. I learned a lot with the speakers and acquired the tools for future projects. Next time I will have to try my own version of a transmission line speaker like Thor with cheaper drivers.
jteef,
I am planning on taking my speakers into lab once i finish mine. I still need to stain and polyurethane my speakers, so it will take me a bit longer to finish them. Also, Dr. Leach has been very busy this semester, and is teaching 3 different classes. I will see if I can get in there in a few weeks.
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Brian
jteef,
I am planning on taking my speakers into lab once i finish mine. I still need to stain and polyurethane my speakers, so it will take me a bit longer to finish them. Also, Dr. Leach has been very busy this semester, and is teaching 3 different classes. I will see if I can get in there in a few weeks.
--
Brian
opinion on thor
I'm interested in building the thor loudspeaker, but it would be nice to read some more opinions about the loudspeaker.
I would also be nice to know the equiment used with the thor, and comparision to other speakers of similar quality.
Thx.
I'm interested in building the thor loudspeaker, but it would be nice to read some more opinions about the loudspeaker.
I would also be nice to know the equiment used with the thor, and comparision to other speakers of similar quality.
Thx.
I will finish my Aleph 2 monoblocks soon and post listening, along with eventually taking them into Dr. Leach's audiolab and measure them. (It will be a hassle... they weight in at about 100 lbs each)
--
Brian
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Brian
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