Thanks, might be best leaving it be and just making sure it has a better power supply, along with the other chips, if possible.
That's what I did. Although I suppose I did improve the power supply, by removing everything else hanging off it 🙂
Re: Re: Replacement Caps
It's a dual Power Op-amp L272M which can be replaced with a L2722.
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/114191/FAIRCHILD/L272M.html
I doubt you will find a "hifi" replacement.
Andy
SimontY said:
SimontY said:
It's a dual Power Op-amp L272M which can be replaced with a L2722.
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/114191/FAIRCHILD/L272M.html
I doubt you will find a "hifi" replacement.
Andy
Well it's not broken so I don't need to replace it as such, just wondering if there may be gains here, as playing with this section has already proved (very) fruitful, and in the areas the old players are weak at (snappy, clear, precise transients, treble, space, clarity..)
edit: of all the numbers ("L2?2M") I'd considered, "7" was not one of them! lol
Simon
edit: of all the numbers ("L2?2M") I'd considered, "7" was not one of them! lol
Simon
Back home and have had a good listen to The Girl in the Other Room (Krall). Wow!
The treble is in a whole new league compared to its old self, the bass is tight and detailed, piano sounds stunning, and Krall's vocals are more upfront and you can hear the processing effect clearly. On "Departure Bay" the hiss at the start and popping noises (1min onwards) are markedly clearer. Her breaths and noises of the piano stool creaking, paper rustling and her lips parting are readily audible, the magical veil being lifted once more.
Drums have a Naim-like snap about them that just wasn't there before. The player does sound a touch brighter, which I hope will calm down as I do prefer a slightly warm sound. Shakers sound great, and cymbals have a lovely vibrancy to them that was missing previously. I will say, though, that in absolute terms there could be more micro-dynamic articulation between sustained cymbals (e.g. in a fast-paced finale). I wouldn't know more was possible, though, had I not heard Brent's hi-fi, which would redefine for most people how much detail is retrievable from red-book cd audio.
There's more to do so it may be possible to get there... I got some small os-cons (68uF/20V) from Rapid Electronics today, along with a 470pF polystyrene cap for the 1541 😀
edit: too excited about this 470pF cap, I'm gonna have to install it now!
Simon
The treble is in a whole new league compared to its old self, the bass is tight and detailed, piano sounds stunning, and Krall's vocals are more upfront and you can hear the processing effect clearly. On "Departure Bay" the hiss at the start and popping noises (1min onwards) are markedly clearer. Her breaths and noises of the piano stool creaking, paper rustling and her lips parting are readily audible, the magical veil being lifted once more.
Drums have a Naim-like snap about them that just wasn't there before. The player does sound a touch brighter, which I hope will calm down as I do prefer a slightly warm sound. Shakers sound great, and cymbals have a lovely vibrancy to them that was missing previously. I will say, though, that in absolute terms there could be more micro-dynamic articulation between sustained cymbals (e.g. in a fast-paced finale). I wouldn't know more was possible, though, had I not heard Brent's hi-fi, which would redefine for most people how much detail is retrievable from red-book cd audio.
There's more to do so it may be possible to get there... I got some small os-cons (68uF/20V) from Rapid Electronics today, along with a 470pF polystyrene cap for the 1541 😀
edit: too excited about this 470pF cap, I'm gonna have to install it now!
Simon
Well I couldn't remove my DAC chip (new chip is very tight in there) and just ragged the edges with my needle-nosed pliers.. so I desoldered the ceramic 470pF and installed the polystyrene from above. After it not working (wire had fatigued on the daughter-board) I've got it hooked up playing a favourite Linn test disc...
It's not a load different this one, but it's better. The sound is more vibrant and has more of that hard to describe finesse about it. I think that comes from tonal quality, timing and space, rather than some big, easy to pinpoint thing like it's "clearer" etc.
edit: I also think there's more happening with cymbals, more variety. For <£1 this mod was well worth doing!
Simon
It's not a load different this one, but it's better. The sound is more vibrant and has more of that hard to describe finesse about it. I think that comes from tonal quality, timing and space, rather than some big, easy to pinpoint thing like it's "clearer" etc.
edit: I also think there's more happening with cymbals, more variety. For <£1 this mod was well worth doing!
Simon
Simon,
Very satisfying, eh!
As the electro caps bed in you should expect to clearly hear the cymbals start to "shake" and the "beats" will become more pronounced.
At the other end, the base should go down about another 1/2 octave with the low notes maintaining their clarity, depending on that IC o/p stage. Sounds ridiculous, but usually happens.
I'd suggest you start thinking about replacing the whole o/p components with maybe Jocko's, Rudolf simple, etc discrete o/p stage - far better than the much touted Burson units. You will need a pretty decent supply for this better o/p stage, tho.
Another thing, you might find that the Speaker Xover components can be "tweaked" a bit and also check the time alignment of your speaker drivers (bass to mids, in particular) as the phase response of the player often changes quite a bit- you may find that you need to bring the mids a few mm forward (shims) as the fatigue/digititus/etc of the source is now steadily declining as the performance improves.
I looked uhe old thread about the 1541A chip specs and things -t's a few years old now and it's called "1541 info" - I haven't worked out how to do that thing about adding links and things - website ignorant!
Very satisfying, eh!
As the electro caps bed in you should expect to clearly hear the cymbals start to "shake" and the "beats" will become more pronounced.
At the other end, the base should go down about another 1/2 octave with the low notes maintaining their clarity, depending on that IC o/p stage. Sounds ridiculous, but usually happens.
I'd suggest you start thinking about replacing the whole o/p components with maybe Jocko's, Rudolf simple, etc discrete o/p stage - far better than the much touted Burson units. You will need a pretty decent supply for this better o/p stage, tho.
Another thing, you might find that the Speaker Xover components can be "tweaked" a bit and also check the time alignment of your speaker drivers (bass to mids, in particular) as the phase response of the player often changes quite a bit- you may find that you need to bring the mids a few mm forward (shims) as the fatigue/digititus/etc of the source is now steadily declining as the performance improves.
I looked uhe old thread about the 1541A chip specs and things -t's a few years old now and it's called "1541 info" - I haven't worked out how to do that thing about adding links and things - website ignorant!
S2 Double Crown
Revieved that S2 from Australia yesterday lunchtime.
Having spoken to verious people, I was expecting a fairly subtle difference. It had been stated that it was one of theose changes you'd notice more if you revert to the old DAC.
What I wasn't expecting was the sound to move so far forward against the noise floor. The detail has lifted, the bass goes lower, the seperation is wonderful. Everything about the sound has lifted again in a way I didn't think possible. As expected the character remains
I think as long as you've done the groundwork, rails,regs,clock,O/S etc, this is an astounding upgrade (albeit not without cost!) Should definately be considered the icing on the cake.
I am now at a point well above what I imagined possible. This player is now truely a TT substitute.
Ian
Revieved that S2 from Australia yesterday lunchtime.
Having spoken to verious people, I was expecting a fairly subtle difference. It had been stated that it was one of theose changes you'd notice more if you revert to the old DAC.
What I wasn't expecting was the sound to move so far forward against the noise floor. The detail has lifted, the bass goes lower, the seperation is wonderful. Everything about the sound has lifted again in a way I didn't think possible. As expected the character remains
I think as long as you've done the groundwork, rails,regs,clock,O/S etc, this is an astounding upgrade (albeit not without cost!) Should definately be considered the icing on the cake.
I am now at a point well above what I imagined possible. This player is now truely a TT substitute.
Ian
Re: S2 Double Crown
Yeh, a Sercal C1 on the 7220, fed by a Super Reg, but not yet on a dedicated PSU (no.1 to-do item).
It wasn't for me, probably because some other areas were so lacking. The most exciting mods were S Power regulation on the 7220, Super Reg on the 7210 and new caps on the mech board. These mods cleaned the sound right up. Mind you, super reg on the DAC +5V was awesome too...
Very satisfying indeed James. I'll try the thing Lee's cooking up (something simple he's making a PCB for) if he'll give me a PCB. If it's not awesome, it's Bursons... because they are. The output stage supply is already "amped" to the max - big dedicated toroid, schottkies, 15000uF Mundorf smoothers, S Power regulation, ZA 220uF local decoupling.
Glad to hear you got a real one Ian, I'd be terrified of buying a fake. Given what you just said, I think I'll need one, eventually 😀
My player is already more detailed than my CD63KI managed, and has the "analogue" sound of a turntable, maybe just not quite as "slow", but I think a lot more detailed and open than any normal turntable could manage.
Lee,
Will we hear from you today? I hope the output stage is going well... 😉
Simon
philpoole said:
Yeh, a Sercal C1 on the 7220, fed by a Super Reg, but not yet on a dedicated PSU (no.1 to-do item).
jean-paul said:
It wasn't for me, probably because some other areas were so lacking. The most exciting mods were S Power regulation on the 7220, Super Reg on the 7210 and new caps on the mech board. These mods cleaned the sound right up. Mind you, super reg on the DAC +5V was awesome too...
jameshillj said:
Very satisfying indeed James. I'll try the thing Lee's cooking up (something simple he's making a PCB for) if he'll give me a PCB. If it's not awesome, it's Bursons... because they are. The output stage supply is already "amped" to the max - big dedicated toroid, schottkies, 15000uF Mundorf smoothers, S Power regulation, ZA 220uF local decoupling.
UV101 said:Received that S2 from Australia yesterday lunchtime...
...I am now at a point well above what I imagined possible. This player is now truly a TT substitute.
Glad to hear you got a real one Ian, I'd be terrified of buying a fake. Given what you just said, I think I'll need one, eventually 😀
My player is already more detailed than my CD63KI managed, and has the "analogue" sound of a turntable, maybe just not quite as "slow", but I think a lot more detailed and open than any normal turntable could manage.
Lee,
Will we hear from you today? I hope the output stage is going well... 😉
Simon
jean-paul said:
Do agree, but then, really this would spoil the game of all the small mods, wouldn't it.
I think I need a master clock distributed by optic cable to the lot of players i use!
triode al
triode_al said:
I don't understand, are you suggesting a clock is so important nothing else matters? Surely I misunderstand you
Simon
Placing a better clock does not exclude the small mods. But it is ( if well implemented ) a big step forwards at once and within a relatively short time.
Re: S2 Double Crown
With me living in Aussie that's like a red rag to a bull. Go on, taunt me; make me want one!
Unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm too skint at the moment because of the dreaded 'school fees slump' in the household finances...
Good to hear there really is a difference.
Stuey
UV101 said:Revieved that S2 from Australia yesterday lunchtime.
Having spoken to verious people, I was expecting a fairly subtle difference. It had been stated that it was one of theose changes you'd notice more if you revert to the old DAC.
What I wasn't expecting was the sound to move so far forward against the noise floor. The detail has lifted, the bass goes lower, the seperation is wonderful. Everything about the sound has lifted again in a way I didn't think possible. As expected the character remains
I think as long as you've done the groundwork, rails,regs,clock,O/S etc, this is an astounding upgrade (albeit not without cost!) Should definately be considered the icing on the cake.
I am now at a point well above what I imagined possible. This player is now truely a TT substitute.
Ian
With me living in Aussie that's like a red rag to a bull. Go on, taunt me; make me want one!
Unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm too skint at the moment because of the dreaded 'school fees slump' in the household finances...
Good to hear there really is a difference.
Stuey
Whilst we're on the subject of clocks
...I was mildly disappointed the oscillator in the servo section is embedded in a chip, as re-clocking the servo IC in the Marantz CD63 gives a quantum leap in detail and treble precision. I guess these systems are fairly different anyway, but eventually I'll be scraping the barrel for extra mods 😀
Also, can we re-clock the DAC directly, separately from the digital filter, or must they be synchronised? The datasheet calls for a max of 6.4MHz, but in reality I don't know what frequency is needed at the bit clock input / pin 2.
..if they must be tied together, can the clock signal from the dig filter (SAA7220) be buffered on its way to the TDA1541A? Will this do good things?
This stuff is above my head so please be gentle if I've said something idiotic.
Simon
...I was mildly disappointed the oscillator in the servo section is embedded in a chip, as re-clocking the servo IC in the Marantz CD63 gives a quantum leap in detail and treble precision. I guess these systems are fairly different anyway, but eventually I'll be scraping the barrel for extra mods 😀
Also, can we re-clock the DAC directly, separately from the digital filter, or must they be synchronised? The datasheet calls for a max of 6.4MHz, but in reality I don't know what frequency is needed at the bit clock input / pin 2.
..if they must be tied together, can the clock signal from the dig filter (SAA7220) be buffered on its way to the TDA1541A? Will this do good things?
This stuff is above my head so please be gentle if I've said something idiotic.
Simon
Jean-Paul,
If you didn't read it above (thread is getting quite long now) then you'll be pleased to know those ZLH caps are doing the most amazing job on the servo/HF board of my CDM2! At least 4 of them anyway...
Now what to do with this 100uF/20V os-con Tubee sent me
😀
...where's he gone? Must be off working on that DIY regulator design!! 😉
Simon
If you didn't read it above (thread is getting quite long now) then you'll be pleased to know those ZLH caps are doing the most amazing job on the servo/HF board of my CDM2! At least 4 of them anyway...
Now what to do with this 100uF/20V os-con Tubee sent me
😀 ...where's he gone? Must be off working on that DIY regulator design!! 😉
Simon
The 7220 feeds I2S format to the 1541
At 4x oversampling the SAA7220 needs a 11.288Mhz clock, and divides that by 2 to feed teh 1541 a 5.66Mhz clock. You can use an 11.28Mhz clock and a divide-by -2 circuit to feed the dig filter and dac from one clock source, this takes the 7220's out of the latch clock circuit which can be a Good Thing if you can get it to work; you must preserve the relationships in the timing diagrams given in the datasheets. Phil's played with this a lot...
PS really dont worry about the integrated servo. mods here work in the cd63, only because the cd63 really is pretty damn poor to begin with 😉
At 4x oversampling the SAA7220 needs a 11.288Mhz clock, and divides that by 2 to feed teh 1541 a 5.66Mhz clock. You can use an 11.28Mhz clock and a divide-by -2 circuit to feed the dig filter and dac from one clock source, this takes the 7220's out of the latch clock circuit which can be a Good Thing if you can get it to work; you must preserve the relationships in the timing diagrams given in the datasheets. Phil's played with this a lot...
PS really dont worry about the integrated servo. mods here work in the cd63, only because the cd63 really is pretty damn poor to begin with 😉
This is exciting information to me Martin... So you reckon Brent's C1 clock should be tapped and then a D1 (his divide-by-two) board fed from this straight into pin 2 of the DAC? This wouldn't be expensive, would it be good and probably work??
Simon
Simon
SimontY said:
Warning: commercial break !
If you like those, I sell them in boxes of 500 pieces for convenient prices. Just send me a PM. Datecode is 2007.
The OSCONS are excellent for decoupling SAA7220. 100/20 is the right size and value but 220 uF 10 V is slightly better at that spot. But replace the series resistor for a coil too if you are going to change the supply of the SAA anyway.
I lack the time now to read the whole thread again so excuse me if this has been discussed before or if you go the non os route.