Dem is easy to do on perfboard.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1723864#post1723864
Added a clock divider signal on my clock pcb straight away, with the dem reclock. On top of the 2nd HCT163 glued an SMD 04 inverter chip. Caps/resistors near pin 16-17, SMD ceramic caps and regular R's
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1723864#post1723864
Added a clock divider signal on my clock pcb straight away, with the dem reclock. On top of the 2nd HCT163 glued an SMD 04 inverter chip. Caps/resistors near pin 16-17, SMD ceramic caps and regular R's
One more added to the list then eh? lol.
I'm going to do a discrete I/V stage first, probably Pedja's design.
Is it necessary to have some filtering after the dac? At the moment I'm using Ray's discrete stage after the opamp I/V, and was just wondering if the filter is needed. Also, would a buffer be beneficial after pedja's discrete I/V, or can/is it used as a full output stage?
Would be nice to incorporate everything after the dac onto one board.
Cheers, Lee.
I'm going to do a discrete I/V stage first, probably Pedja's design.
Is it necessary to have some filtering after the dac? At the moment I'm using Ray's discrete stage after the opamp I/V, and was just wondering if the filter is needed. Also, would a buffer be beneficial after pedja's discrete I/V, or can/is it used as a full output stage?
Would be nice to incorporate everything after the dac onto one board.
Cheers, Lee.
SimontY said:
Well, my DAC's not just industrial parts
the power rail decoupling is mainly Elna Cerafine or Silmic - except the digital filter and input stage, the DAC decoupling is polyester (I think) and the output filter has polyester again, AND NOW: some of those Mundorfs on the output. Alas, not a black gate in sight, but reasonable nonetheless.I had a bit of a listen to the new Mundorfs, and I do agree they make a vague difference. In general I totally agree passive components, especially capacitors are important.
I'm certain it was the capacitors and not the connectors that make the difference.
Interesting, will you be playing with any alternatives to polyester in the DAC's decoupling? They're small (I think polyester) SMD parts in the '650 under the board 
Sadly my '650 has no Black Gates, and may never as they're getting rarer and more expensive. I'm not sure they'll be worth the premium for long. Still, I like Rubycon ZA, they're not far off from my experience.
Simon
Sadly my '650 has no Black Gates, and may never as they're getting rarer and more expensive. I'm not sure they'll be worth the premium for long. Still, I like Rubycon ZA, they're not far off from my experience.
Simon
Those pesky Black gates are getting tricky to find for sure.
I've managed to source a few and I have them on the Op Amps in my CD960 and on the DOS in my CD63.
The ZA's are a little more clinical/detailed sounding (I had them on the op amps first in my 63) I've tried Elna Silmic II, ZA's BG's.
The silmics are the warmest and the ZA's are the sharpest. The BG's share characteristics of both. Given that the TDA sounds warm, it may not be a bad thing to use ZA's instead of BG's.
That said, I'm going to stick with the BG's at the moment but I will hook some ZA's in sooner or later to see what that does. Like you Simon I'm aware that the 63 sounds more detailed I suppose its a question of taste. I'd like a little more details with the absolute warmness i've got from the 1541 now!
I will achieve
I've managed to source a few and I have them on the Op Amps in my CD960 and on the DOS in my CD63.
The ZA's are a little more clinical/detailed sounding (I had them on the op amps first in my 63) I've tried Elna Silmic II, ZA's BG's.
The silmics are the warmest and the ZA's are the sharpest. The BG's share characteristics of both. Given that the TDA sounds warm, it may not be a bad thing to use ZA's instead of BG's.
That said, I'm going to stick with the BG's at the moment but I will hook some ZA's in sooner or later to see what that does. Like you Simon I'm aware that the 63 sounds more detailed I suppose its a question of taste. I'd like a little more details with the absolute warmness i've got from the 1541 now!
I will achieve
I don't think I'll be experimenting with the polyester caps (or they might be polypropelene - poly something anyway).
My caps are as close as possible to the DAC chip, with half of them underneath the board, so it would be fiddly to remove them and swap in a new set.
I don't think it makes much difference, although I've heard actual capacity can be important (in fact, my most significant two caps are 1uF, instead of the usual 100nF).
My caps are as close as possible to the DAC chip, with half of them underneath the board, so it would be fiddly to remove them and swap in a new set.
I don't think it makes much difference, although I've heard actual capacity can be important (in fact, my most significant two caps are 1uF, instead of the usual 100nF).
Where do I start ? ..................
Let's see...........
Revox B226S with TDA1541A single crown
Revox B126 TDA1541A
Marantz CD63 (the original CD100 type) TDA1540
Philips CD104 (about 10 ) TDA1540
Marantz Cd273 SE with TDA1541 S
Marantz CD273 TDA1541
Philips CD50 TDA1541A
Philips CD60 TDA1541A
Philips CD200 TDA1540
That's all I can remember of the top of my head....
and then there's the bitstream players like cd9XX with CDM9
all the Marantz cd4000, CD6000SE
B&O CDx
and the non - Philips / Marantz like Siemens RA400
I'l send you a photo when I get home, if you like...
Andy
SimontY said:
Let's see...........
Revox B226S with TDA1541A single crown
Revox B126 TDA1541A
Marantz CD63 (the original CD100 type) TDA1540
Philips CD104 (about 10 ) TDA1540
Marantz Cd273 SE with TDA1541 S
Marantz CD273 TDA1541
Philips CD50 TDA1541A
Philips CD60 TDA1541A
Philips CD200 TDA1540
That's all I can remember of the top of my head....
and then there's the bitstream players like cd9XX with CDM9
all the Marantz cd4000, CD6000SE
B&O CDx
and the non - Philips / Marantz like Siemens RA400
I'l send you a photo when I get home, if you like...
Andy
The smd caps underneath CD650 are ceramic. Exchange to 100N MKT is no problem, and took for msb 1uF and the one after 0.47uF They can just be soldered on the original smd traces, and glued together after soldering.
If some of you want BG caps: i can order them nearby here and ship them to you.
If some of you want BG caps: i can order them nearby here and ship them to you.
UV101 said:I'd seen that S2 late last night but wanted to try to ensure it was genuine. Funnily enough, Lee emailed me this morning and said it looks identical so I went for it!
Ian, did you win the S2 I linked to?
It's just that the seller seems to indicate that he has more; possibly more than two.
Stuey
Re: Where do I start ? ..................
Well put, I agree with all this.
Duly noted, I want to read more about this before buying anything. Brent put some PPS (polyphenylsulphide - sp?) caps in a player he modified and that seemed to work nicely. I don't think they're especially cheap though.
Some people settle for stamps!! Yes, please show us this impressive vintage stack!!
Ceramic!!! Oh dear, I expect a nice improvement when I swap these then.
Thanks for keeping this a good thread everyone, it's moving fast.
Simon
UV101 said:
Well put, I agree with all this.
philpoole said:
Duly noted, I want to read more about this before buying anything. Brent put some PPS (polyphenylsulphide - sp?) caps in a player he modified and that seemed to work nicely. I don't think they're especially cheap though.
poynton said:
Some people settle for stamps!! Yes, please show us this impressive vintage stack!!
tubee said:
Ceramic!!! Oh dear, I expect a nice improvement when I swap these then.
Thanks for keeping this a good thread everyone, it's moving fast.
Simon
Mini disaster
I'm going to post this as a warning because something bad happened and I can't understand exactly what...
I plugged my CD650 into an unfamiliar amp today (a Naim NAP90 - both items on, vol pot turned down (only thing between CDP and amp). There was bad noise, the fuse in my CD650 popped and the Naim's resistor from ground to chassis-ground started smoking like a fine Cuban cigar.
I can't get my head quite round the exact events that took place but we established the cause of the issue. The figure of eight power lead allows live & neutral on the incoming mains to be swapped over at will. Now moving back to trouble-shooting...
Connecting just the ground of the amp to ground of the CD player caused a nasty buzzing. Swapping the fig 8 lead over (flipping live and neutral) caused this to disappear. The CDP was reconnected fully and it worked fine (ok, an op-amp had been killed but it's playing music fine back at home now).
I think the moral of this story is watch out for those silly power leads if you're adding additional power supplies. Also it's worth noting that a 200mA fuse is too small with two additional toroids. I'm using a 500mA now.
Still sounding very good, shame I didn't get a proper chance to compare it to anything else today... maybe soon.
I'll be adding an IEC input to avoid this problem happening again (not that it seems to be an issue at home - could relate to neutral-earth connections in the building I guess).
Simon
I'm going to post this as a warning because something bad happened and I can't understand exactly what...
I plugged my CD650 into an unfamiliar amp today (a Naim NAP90 - both items on, vol pot turned down (only thing between CDP and amp). There was bad noise, the fuse in my CD650 popped and the Naim's resistor from ground to chassis-ground started smoking like a fine Cuban cigar.
I can't get my head quite round the exact events that took place but we established the cause of the issue. The figure of eight power lead allows live & neutral on the incoming mains to be swapped over at will. Now moving back to trouble-shooting...
Connecting just the ground of the amp to ground of the CD player caused a nasty buzzing. Swapping the fig 8 lead over (flipping live and neutral) caused this to disappear. The CDP was reconnected fully and it worked fine (ok, an op-amp had been killed but it's playing music fine back at home now).
I think the moral of this story is watch out for those silly power leads if you're adding additional power supplies. Also it's worth noting that a 200mA fuse is too small with two additional toroids. I'm using a 500mA now.
Still sounding very good, shame I didn't get a proper chance to compare it to anything else today... maybe soon.
I'll be adding an IEC input to avoid this problem happening again (not that it seems to be an issue at home - could relate to neutral-earth connections in the building I guess).
Simon
Hi Simon,
thats a big Oops!
Sounds like a lucky escape, just an opamp!
This Guy I know told me he blow up the mains transformer on a well sorted player of his due to mains porblems
On a serious note, we should all be very carefull on the input side of our transformers.
I'm struggling with how this can be caused. Surely a reversal of the mains should not effect what is seen at the output of the rectifiers? Are you connecting any audio ground back to mains ground (or what is neutral in a very simplistic form)? With a figure8 lead there shouldn't be an earth but there could be on the amp. Is mainssomehow trickling to the case which was earthed by connection to the amp? Pinched cable maybe? A very poor connection via trapped cable could give you well below 240v on the case. I've seen a case that measured about 75v ac that tingled to touch. This was caused by a trapped/pinched live mains cable.
Best of luck with your investigations
Ian
thats a big Oops!
Sounds like a lucky escape, just an opamp!
This Guy I know told me he blow up the mains transformer on a well sorted player of his due to mains porblems
On a serious note, we should all be very carefull on the input side of our transformers.
I'm struggling with how this can be caused. Surely a reversal of the mains should not effect what is seen at the output of the rectifiers? Are you connecting any audio ground back to mains ground (or what is neutral in a very simplistic form)? With a figure8 lead there shouldn't be an earth but there could be on the amp. Is mainssomehow trickling to the case which was earthed by connection to the amp? Pinched cable maybe? A very poor connection via trapped cable could give you well below 240v on the case. I've seen a case that measured about 75v ac that tingled to touch. This was caused by a trapped/pinched live mains cable.
Best of luck with your investigations
Ian
Hi guys,
In Oz I'm pretty sure neutral and earth are connected at the mains switchboard. Is the UK like this, and could this be part of the issue?
Ian, don't worry about contacting that guy selling the TDA's - I didn't want one, but it was just a heads up for others wanting them.
Cheers
Stuey
In Oz I'm pretty sure neutral and earth are connected at the mains switchboard. Is the UK like this, and could this be part of the issue?
Ian, don't worry about contacting that guy selling the TDA's - I didn't want one, but it was just a heads up for others wanting them.
Cheers
Stuey
Stuey said:
UV101 said:
See.................
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Marantz-P...QptZCD_MiniDisc_Players?hash=item190288840152
Andy