The resistor change is postponed, so I can do the test.
AV Marantz SR4500 (modded) with almost 6º more at 20 kHz
Marantz SR4500 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision
[Big IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/Rephase-PPEQ-KEF-q100-more-6-degree-phase-response.png
I am sorry to announce that the sound is worse, with less body, less magic, less...
AV Marantz SR4500 (modded) with almost 6º more at 20 kHz
Marantz SR4500 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision
[Big IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/Rephase-PPEQ-KEF-q100-more-6-degree-phase-response.png
I am sorry to announce that the sound is worse, with less body, less magic, less...
AV Marantz SR4500 (modded) with something 2º more at 20 kHz
I have changed the phase scale to -10º.
[Big IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/Rephase-PPEQ-KEF-q100-more-2-degree-phase-response.png
Hummm. Sound more clear, a little less soundstage. Lesss magic too.... versus without. Better than with 6º without any doubt.
Maybe with 1º at 20 kHz....
Again without. Sound with body, more soundstage, depth. Therefore better not to touch anything, at least in this system. And without 0.6 dB at 40 Hz, for now.
I have changed the phase scale to -10º.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
[Big IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/Rephase-PPEQ-KEF-q100-more-2-degree-phase-response.png
Hummm. Sound more clear, a little less soundstage. Lesss magic too.... versus without. Better than with 6º without any doubt.
Maybe with 1º at 20 kHz....
Again without. Sound with body, more soundstage, depth. Therefore better not to touch anything, at least in this system. And without 0.6 dB at 40 Hz, for now.
Last edited:
Maty, Maty, Maty. All your arguments are simply “proof by vigorous assertion”. PLEASE perform some properly executed Double Blind Tests (DBT) to give some creditability to your assertions. Until then I can only give your arguments the same credence as those who claim putting wooden supports under speaker cables makes a “huge” difference in sound quality. Your lack of any credible evidence (i.e. DBT) might also explain why you were temporarily banned from audiosciencereview.com.
Before I have listen to a modern "jazz" digital recording: Anouar Brahem - Blue Maqams (2017), Digital Download, ECM, {24-96} [FLAC]
It lacks life, magic .. The first thing I have thought is that they have had to use digital filters with linear phase instead of minimal phase during production. The same sensation when I made the test weeks ago with a VSTplugin linear phase PEQ in JRiver MC.
It lacks life, magic .. The first thing I have thought is that they have had to use digital filters with linear phase instead of minimal phase during production. The same sensation when I made the test weeks ago with a VSTplugin linear phase PEQ in JRiver MC.
Something else also known:
With a Class AB amplifier like this, one does not expect to see much ultrasonic noise unlike "switching" Class D amps where we often can find 400-500kHz content:
Yup, we can easily see the double peaks at 5kHz and 93kHz (notice the roll-off of the 93kHz vs. 5kHz). Otherwise, nice and clean all the way up to 1.5MHz. Nothing to see here folks...
You claimed understand how minimum phase works, then holy cow how can a response that looks be fallen to a -3dB point about 27kHz area have flat as a pancake phase out to 48kHz 😕 please take a live study in rephase on "Minimum-Phase Filters" tab where you can set 1st order stopbands and then notice for a flat/smooth amplitude response rolloff then zero degree phase shift @20kHz is impossible mission even if AB amp bandwidth is a whoopy 1mHz.
Below is probably how that Archimago graph should have looked as i also told back in post 102 for the Onkyo graph, my guess is he miss some calibration setting stuff somewhere in REW to allign time 100% for measurement chain.
Attachments
Neither the amplifier nor the measurements are mine, nor are those of the other amplifiers, including the Hypex NC400.
I can only write about my listening experience with the manipulation of the phase with rePhase. If the program emulates Hypex NC400 correctly or not, I cannot verify that.
The desirable thing is that some Hypex NC user made a simulation with rePhase and told us if the sound improved or worsened. In my second system the differences are very noticeable, much more than I thought!
The graphic has also missed me for being very flat. Typically, there are very few degrees of deviation at 20 kHz and not any. Or Emotiva did very well or there is some error in the measurement.
It would be best to ask the author, Archimago.
I can only write about my listening experience with the manipulation of the phase with rePhase. If the program emulates Hypex NC400 correctly or not, I cannot verify that.
The desirable thing is that some Hypex NC user made a simulation with rePhase and told us if the sound improved or worsened. In my second system the differences are very noticeable, much more than I thought!
The graphic has also missed me for being very flat. Typically, there are very few degrees of deviation at 20 kHz and not any. Or Emotiva did very well or there is some error in the measurement.
It would be best to ask the author, Archimago.
Last edited:
My advice in the post:
Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: Emotiva XPA-1L (Gen 1) Class AB Balanced Monoblock
Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: Emotiva XPA-1L (Gen 1) Class AB Balanced Monoblock
.jpg/:/cr=t:0%25,l:0%25,w:100%25,h:100%25)
Right they are not yours but you distribute them without quality controll together a homebrew message of yours than phase should be zero degree @20kHz for any power amp to sound good.
About that NC400 emulation you also continue do it wrong in only dial on phase domain but that NC400 have also a amplitude rolloff so a better method had been "Minimum-Phase Filters" tab as told pages back and set a 1st or 2nd order LP rolloff and adjust/dial on frq number until phase trace hit the magical offset target number.
I will do the test you say although I would be surprised if the sound did not worsen so much, which is a lot. What interests me is to get excited with the type of recordings I listen to. I am indifferent to the type of amplifier and its price, I judge by the sound.
Of course, I will do it after some NC user does and comments here.
Of course, I will do it after some NC user does and comments here.
Oh no please not again we have been through it one time pages back...look at amplitude response trace its really not smooth in it starts a rise and probably explode in a ugly huge overshoot and its that enourmous minimum phase distortion (PEQ like HF boost) that help phase trace stay at zero degree.
It was to compare bandwidth and phase. The Emotiva has a power bandwidth too small as you have pointed out. Hence i had notified to Archimago.
Can you believe that I had not noticed the bandwidth and only the phase?
Can you believe that I had not noticed the bandwidth and only the phase?
Thanks guys. Updated the phase FR graph. Also recalculated the Onkyo graph as well...
Last edited:
...
..🙂...alright your decision but where comes this number from is it guidance stuff you have from other or your own listening session research, can say a cascade of a good recording microphone bandwith plus range of our hearing adds the first -45º or more then add rest of the recording chain plus multiway speakers and ADC/DAC units can add other tons of huge filter orders excess phase plus also think its worth speculate is there amplitude info up at 20kHz.
One of the advantages of amplifiers with high bandwidth, usually up to 350 kHz to avoid RF problems, is that in addition to flattening the frequency response < 20 kHz they also do the same with the phase -> better sound.
Of course, very good recordings and with great dynamic range are assume.
****** *******
The improvement in sound is incredible compared to a few months ago.
Art Farmer Benny Golson Jazztet - Here And Now / Another Git Together (1962), CD, Universal 2012, US
Of course, very good recordings and with great dynamic range are assume.
****** *******
The improvement in sound is incredible compared to a few months ago.
Art Farmer Benny Golson Jazztet - Here And Now / Another Git Together (1962), CD, Universal 2012, US
Last edited: