I can rearrange the cap a little I have not added any other caps yet just fitted physically larger 470 Uf caps. I can probably squeeze in 100) uf 16v caps between the original blue low value Panasonic caps
Soldering in production line, is done for all the exposed pads on board, no matter it are component planted or not. Soldering on the missing components pads, it may be removed, to make available the through holes for the new caps terminals. Well, in a more professional way of doing...
I ended up removing the Fine golds and running 470uf 16V Silmic II AC coupling for the surrounds and FKP films filter caps.
Interesting anther modding Company seems to have swapped out a lot of caps to Panasonic FC's and done something different to the OP Amps, I wonder if these are worth looking at as Authentic Cinema swap these as well http://www.casea.eu/modifikace.php?#photoid193
Google Translate says they :
modification of the main switching power supply
modification of local power supplies of the digital part of the player
modification of local power supplies of analog circuits
modification of analog output circuits and filters
Guessing the multichannel only 'uses' the Op amps between the filer caps and uses the small surface mounted dual op amps in the middle ?
Any thoughts on Op Amps ? I think but dont know if I could try some 1612 ti units Authentic cinema fit, I think they might swap out with the multichannel SMD and need a converter elsewhere
Google Translate says they :
modification of the main switching power supply
modification of local power supplies of the digital part of the player
modification of local power supplies of analog circuits
modification of analog output circuits and filters
Guessing the multichannel only 'uses' the Op amps between the filer caps and uses the small surface mounted dual op amps in the middle ?
Any thoughts on Op Amps ? I think but dont know if I could try some 1612 ti units Authentic cinema fit, I think they might swap out with the multichannel SMD and need a converter elsewhere
Anyone know if buying another analogue board is possible ? Be great to have two to A-B and I could be brave with trying more skilled solder work and swapping out op amps ?
I think an idea it may be contacting Panasonic Custom service, or an Panasonic agreed Service centre, and ask about....
The greens are for balanced out, while the yellows are for unbalanced out. The multi-channel section opamps it are the four opamps in the board central area.
In my opinion these opamps it are not so necessarily being replaced. The gain of improvement it may not be as high, as the one obtained by improving the power system on board. Eventual opamps replacement it may be done very carefully, because the small film caps it will be destroyed at once if heating gun is used. Only a heating source (soldering iron) very close such caps it may change their parameters. The replacement work for those opamps is quite demanding. Therefore, I have chosen (my approach) to upgrade this section using an entirely redesigned analog circuit (only for stereo outputs), on a separate PCB, as an added module (cutting the in and out paths of signal). My stereo analog module it include also own power system.
In my opinion these opamps it are not so necessarily being replaced. The gain of improvement it may not be as high, as the one obtained by improving the power system on board. Eventual opamps replacement it may be done very carefully, because the small film caps it will be destroyed at once if heating gun is used. Only a heating source (soldering iron) very close such caps it may change their parameters. The replacement work for those opamps is quite demanding. Therefore, I have chosen (my approach) to upgrade this section using an entirely redesigned analog circuit (only for stereo outputs), on a separate PCB, as an added module (cutting the in and out paths of signal). My stereo analog module it include also own power system.
Coris, thanks, I dont think I'm brave enough to tackle these just yet, the blue in the first picture look very tricky and obviously I need the room from my oversized coupling caps to be addressed before doing anything. Yes those look very tricky indeed, I can see Casea do something with the SMD Op amps on the digital board, in the second picture of the digital with a blue circle are these also for multichannel ? (slightly more room here, but still looks very challenging !)
By the way what's your view on RFI/EMI absorption tape ?
By the way what's your view on RFI/EMI absorption tape ?
Yes, the blue circled opamps on digital board downside, it belong to the multi-channel section as well. Just replacing the opamps with some similar components, while keeping in place the original adjacent caps and resistors circuits, is not actually a good thing. The original design it was done with all that components together, which it are finally planted on board. Changing only parts of these circuits it will for sure alter the performances, rather than improve anything. New opamps it should have their own caps/resistors networks around, accordingly to the datasheets specifications and the targeted results/performances. In my opinion, a such simple opamp replacement is not a good idea. A better result following such replacement is highly questionable/controversial, and unsure. Well, sometimes it could fit just by chance. Best approach or way of doing it, is the replacement of the entire such functional dedicated circuits, with another one, based on carefully researches and experimenting, for the best and safe results.
Well, RF/EMI absorbing/shielding material it is efficient, if applied properly over or in vicinity of the sources suspected for generating such noises. An enough carefully research should be done to find the best positions for placement of a such shielding material. Just applying this EMI/RF shielding materials over large surfaces, by chance inside the chassis, or over boards, it may not solve anything at all. I do such shielding in my upgrades...
Well, RF/EMI absorbing/shielding material it is efficient, if applied properly over or in vicinity of the sources suspected for generating such noises. An enough carefully research should be done to find the best positions for placement of a such shielding material. Just applying this EMI/RF shielding materials over large surfaces, by chance inside the chassis, or over boards, it may not solve anything at all. I do such shielding in my upgrades...
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I hope you dont want to rework this at some point IWC Doppel. The enormous silmics and all the glue/tape etc will prohibit doing much further work. The board is already tight for space when you can access everything easily. Silmics and nichicon 'audio grade' caps are huge for the rating. You might try using some lower impedance capacitors; the silmics are not particularly suitable for this purpose IMO. They are not low Z and the size prohibits low inductance, due to required lead length etc. I would be surprised if any improvement is possible with such a move; while at the same time degrading performance is easy.. The board is reasonably well designed, nice multilayer board, tight SMD layout with good local decoupling. I agree with Coris, just replacing components on the same board with parts chosen willy nilly for their datasheet performance in isolation is unlikely to improve anything in application. it would be just luck if you ended up with something that even worked correctly and met specifications. Have fun by all means, but if the end you desire is improved performance; this is not the way forward.
InspectorGadget, appreciate the input. I suspect you know improved performance is the desire, I am not super knowledgeable on electronics but do have a lot of experience with 2 channel and multichannel from a user perspective. So feel more than able to assess sonically how things are and take care to avoid fooling myself.
My journey with the Panasonic player is solely about improving analogue audio (7.1) in a mutlichannel system, and ofcourse any picture upgrades on the way. I have tried all the other players (except the Reavon 200) before embarking on the upgrade path. So would truly value any additional input. I have recently swapped to the SMD's on the digital board and this has provided an upgrade (see below). I considered Sanyo or Panasonic Oscons here, I have seen reputable modders use Nichicon FW in these locations. But so far have found silmics to be the best after experimentation. I know its not possible to find ESR ratings for these and they are large but hey what have I got to lose trying.
For the coupling caps on the analogue board Silmics are far better than Nichicon FGs and they are better than the Panasonic original fitment.
When I try something and it isnt an improvement I swap back, I read, listen and experiment. I am happy to do so. I have been unable to improve on an old naim AV2 used only as a 8 channel pre-amp for cinema. Hence the reason for experimenting, I did purchase an Acurus ACT4 processor but my naim and Panasonic was better, hence my journey. I EQ subs using a 10x10 mini DSP and will experiment here as well, this is for 5-70 Hz.
By the way the tape is only there to dampen the caps as they are not held securely and can resonate
I'm here to learn and improve so do share any thoughts !
My journey with the Panasonic player is solely about improving analogue audio (7.1) in a mutlichannel system, and ofcourse any picture upgrades on the way. I have tried all the other players (except the Reavon 200) before embarking on the upgrade path. So would truly value any additional input. I have recently swapped to the SMD's on the digital board and this has provided an upgrade (see below). I considered Sanyo or Panasonic Oscons here, I have seen reputable modders use Nichicon FW in these locations. But so far have found silmics to be the best after experimentation. I know its not possible to find ESR ratings for these and they are large but hey what have I got to lose trying.
For the coupling caps on the analogue board Silmics are far better than Nichicon FGs and they are better than the Panasonic original fitment.
When I try something and it isnt an improvement I swap back, I read, listen and experiment. I am happy to do so. I have been unable to improve on an old naim AV2 used only as a 8 channel pre-amp for cinema. Hence the reason for experimenting, I did purchase an Acurus ACT4 processor but my naim and Panasonic was better, hence my journey. I EQ subs using a 10x10 mini DSP and will experiment here as well, this is for 5-70 Hz.
By the way the tape is only there to dampen the caps as they are not held securely and can resonate
I'm here to learn and improve so do share any thoughts !
Yeah. that is better than the last pics, but sorry I actually still think the original layout, with the original caps is better. They will have characterised the design with those SMD caps and the smaller ceramic bypass caps will be chosen and sized to match. They themselves are a good chance of being nichicon or similar high quality lowZ caps. They are likely polymer/tantalum and IMO the best part for the job. the silmics will have completely different AC and DC characteristics. they are not low impedance (doesnt say, but that it doesnt say, means they arent). ive used them plenty but not for many years. they are too big, wire leads are often too thick for standard holes and they just arent suitable for modern digital gear IMO) and the leads will be orders of magnitude higher inductance.
On the other professional mod you pictured above, they used pana FM and looks like nippon chemicon in the through-hole positions. low Z/low ripple caps.