All I can do is speak for myself and our installers, we are not yet finished but when we are, the answer is yes.
I know that Coris is yet to test drive the inbuilt volume control in the Sabre DAC, but I think it is amazing, because they knew that this was a key objective of the Sabre DAC, in fact it has measurable similar characteristics compared to and analog volume control.
This is well worth warching and listening to, and I hope Coris does as well:
[url]www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjHKv2_OqQ&t=1385s[/url]
How good would the 205 be as a multichannel DAC for active DSP loudspeakers?
Convolution will be running on a laptop and will use the 205 as an external 8 channel DAC for a 4way speaker.
questions:
1. Is the HDMI audio interface effective? I heard jitter is a bigger problem compared to asynchronous USB audio interface. Does the 205 overcome this well?
2. Is there effective ground isolation from the PC when using HDMI connection?
3. How good are the unbalanced output stages of the 8 analog channels?
thanks
Convolution will be running on a laptop and will use the 205 as an external 8 channel DAC for a 4way speaker.
questions:
1. Is the HDMI audio interface effective? I heard jitter is a bigger problem compared to asynchronous USB audio interface. Does the 205 overcome this well?
2. Is there effective ground isolation from the PC when using HDMI connection?
3. How good are the unbalanced output stages of the 8 analog channels?
thanks
205 it should be good on both stereo and multi-channel, as it is equipped with the last version SabrePro DAC chips. Well, there is not exactly so, and in fact the device output performances are not accordingly with the performances of the new improved components. 205 stock it sounds somehow different than the predecessor model (105). In my opinion (and in some others too), the stock 205 it sounds harsh on XLR/RCA outputs, it have better sound stage than 105, but the sound is muffed somehow. I did not liked it at all, especially thinking there is a so performant DAC chip inside...
The analogue power system of 205 it suffer seriously by the wrong design. The ripple before low noise regulators is huge, as the loading of the main regulators, and therefore quite important heat generating.
Mainly, the device problems are related to its power system. The used SMPS for digital board it introduce lot of noises in the whole system. Oppo have found out a clever design solution, reducing the jitter on HDMI audio out. Well, the processor involved in this solution is clocked by a chip resonator... and everything is powered by a noisy SMPS system...
A dramatically reducing of the HF/large spectre noises into the system, is removing the SMPS (replacing it by a linear PSU). This is the first big step in improving the device overall performances. The second step is improving the clock system quality. The third improvement step is the analogue power quality (minimising the ripple and noises generated by the linear regulators).
I use with good results my concept for linear power module (LPM), based on very large filtering capacities. Also my clock system is unified powered by battery, and consist for 205 model of a 108Mhz master clock, which it clock directly the DAC chip. Then divided frequency to 27Mhz it goes to the main processor and HDMI audio dedicated processor. So, a synchronised clock signal is provided to the whole system. Well, a different oscillator it have to be used for optical drive decoder (25Mhz - not dividable from the master oscillator), but powered from the same clean battery power.
I completely improved the analogue power system (on stereo board) for 205, by adding two pre regulators for DAC power rails, and improved the regulation for differential power for opamps. Well, a much different output quality for both picture and sound...
The analogue power system of 205 it suffer seriously by the wrong design. The ripple before low noise regulators is huge, as the loading of the main regulators, and therefore quite important heat generating.
Mainly, the device problems are related to its power system. The used SMPS for digital board it introduce lot of noises in the whole system. Oppo have found out a clever design solution, reducing the jitter on HDMI audio out. Well, the processor involved in this solution is clocked by a chip resonator... and everything is powered by a noisy SMPS system...
A dramatically reducing of the HF/large spectre noises into the system, is removing the SMPS (replacing it by a linear PSU). This is the first big step in improving the device overall performances. The second step is improving the clock system quality. The third improvement step is the analogue power quality (minimising the ripple and noises generated by the linear regulators).
I use with good results my concept for linear power module (LPM), based on very large filtering capacities. Also my clock system is unified powered by battery, and consist for 205 model of a 108Mhz master clock, which it clock directly the DAC chip. Then divided frequency to 27Mhz it goes to the main processor and HDMI audio dedicated processor. So, a synchronised clock signal is provided to the whole system. Well, a different oscillator it have to be used for optical drive decoder (25Mhz - not dividable from the master oscillator), but powered from the same clean battery power.
I completely improved the analogue power system (on stereo board) for 205, by adding two pre regulators for DAC power rails, and improved the regulation for differential power for opamps. Well, a much different output quality for both picture and sound...
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I'll offer you the courtesy of answering your questions directly as you asked them:
1. The 205 has 2 HDMI output interfaces, one meant for audio only with its reduced jitter specs due to special chips added for jitter reduction. Please read OPPO Digital - Knowledge Base
2. Not on the Oppo directly. You'll have to provide isolation externally. I know of no player that provides isolated HDMI inputs or outputs. But unless you have a ground loop problem in your system, that's where it needs to be resolved.
3. The XLR and RCA MCH outputs are superb and sound excellent in my opinion. I have no complaints as attested to by many reviewers and listeners alike. Enjoy!
- David
Not really. So-called 'Hi-Rez' streaming video quality is never equal to that from shiny disks. Look at Amazon's 720p quality versus that of broadcast or even actual 2K quality. Amazon tends to produce a 'softer' and less visually dynamic 720p image.
Thanks David.
Yes i have read about their work on HDMI audio out, but not directly relevant in my application. I will be feeding multi-channel audio into the 205 from my PC through the HDMI-IN of 205.
Not sure if they have similar mechanisms to recover the multichannel audio stream from the potentially jittery HDMI source clock from the PC.
Thanks Coris, for the detailed comments. It is not surprising that Oppo has taken some shortcuts to get this mass market device out at a reasonable price. Some of them definitely affect audible and measurable quality of results.
If your analysis is based on objective measurements and subjective keen listening, then maybe 205 is not really a great device just out of the box.
But the tweaks you suggest are quite advanced. One might have better outcome to start from scratch and design a 9038 based solution. Obviously if competence, time, money and other resources are abundantly available.
The jitter improvement mechanism it refer only to the dedicated audio through HDMI output.
As I pointed out previously, there is not the DAC system in itself which is wrong designed in 205, but the implementation and realisation of the analogue main power system. The Sabre Pro chip it have all power rails treated by the (standard) book, two regulators on each L/R output DAC stages, and these it provide identical voltages, which is quite a performance for a production line. The problem (in my opinion) is that the AVCC DAC regulators (3,3v) are feed it from 12v, instead of under 5v for best noise figures. This it mean also unnecessary heat dissipation. Not talking more about the huge ripple presented at these low noise AVCC regulators input, because wrong design (poor filtering) of the main analogue power source (this for sure for economical/production prices reasons).
Well, redesigning the whole analogue stage for this device it may be a reasonable argument, but practically and financial it is not (both sides consumer - designer, if not the case of a mass production target). It is more convenient, cheaper, and less time consuming only modifying the original design...
Pictured hereby is my solution for replacing the original +/- regulators and adding two pre regulators for DAC power system.
As I pointed out previously, there is not the DAC system in itself which is wrong designed in 205, but the implementation and realisation of the analogue main power system. The Sabre Pro chip it have all power rails treated by the (standard) book, two regulators on each L/R output DAC stages, and these it provide identical voltages, which is quite a performance for a production line. The problem (in my opinion) is that the AVCC DAC regulators (3,3v) are feed it from 12v, instead of under 5v for best noise figures. This it mean also unnecessary heat dissipation. Not talking more about the huge ripple presented at these low noise AVCC regulators input, because wrong design (poor filtering) of the main analogue power source (this for sure for economical/production prices reasons).
Well, redesigning the whole analogue stage for this device it may be a reasonable argument, but practically and financial it is not (both sides consumer - designer, if not the case of a mass production target). It is more convenient, cheaper, and less time consuming only modifying the original design...
Pictured hereby is my solution for replacing the original +/- regulators and adding two pre regulators for DAC power system.
Attachments
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.....Thanks very much for your very informative posts. Am I right that you've replaced the ELNA AUDIO 6800mf capacitors with Nichicon 22000mf? Also, why not Nichicon UKW series as they are specifically for audio applications? Thanks
Well, such impressions are strongly subjective... There is obvious improvement for both picture and sound.
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Yes, I have replaced the original caps with Nichicon 22000µF. An important factor in choosing the caps are the dimensions, as it have to fit well in that place. Here is about filtering caps for raw power (after bridges). It is less important that "audio grade" specification for these caps in that place. Their are followed by low noise regulators, then decoupling caps. These caps are quite far from the audio active circuits.
One bridge on board is used for differential power rails (+/-), then the two others are used for the two DACs power systems. If the multi-channel board is not used, then one bridge it become available.
Using 205 for few months
Hello,
This is just my opinion about the 205. I have it for few month now, and I really appreciate this machine.
First of all the construction is really serious. Not a cheap product.
As an example, Oppo build the transport system (same for 203 and 205), and when the tray open, you can notice the difference with the concurrent in the same price range. The disk will load very fast and quiet.
I played a large collection of disks, such as CD, DVD, Bluray, 4K Bluray, Pure audio Bluray, Audio DVD, SACD (Stereo and 5.1), VideoCD,.. without any issue.
I like to sound of the saber DAC, this is the reason why I picked the 205.
I use a Hybrid setup (stereo and HT). So, with the large connectivity, I can feed on one side a McIntosh 2500 preamp (with XLR), and on the other side a Yamaha HT system using HDMI. I plan to use also the 7.1 analog output to the Yamaha.
I use also the Oppo 205 as a DAC, plugging a HTPC with the USB connection, and a Roku connected to the HDMI input.
The remote is large, but very detailed. I use it in complement of a Universal Harmony remote, because some of the keys give me direct access to some functions (instead of using a menu), such as switching the audio for SACD (stereo to 5.1) or DVD/bluray tracks.
I use it also to access my ripped music and videos stored on NAS.
So far, I really enjoy the versatility and the performances, and I can not compare to any player I used in the past.
Hello,
This is just my opinion about the 205. I have it for few month now, and I really appreciate this machine.
First of all the construction is really serious. Not a cheap product.
As an example, Oppo build the transport system (same for 203 and 205), and when the tray open, you can notice the difference with the concurrent in the same price range. The disk will load very fast and quiet.
I played a large collection of disks, such as CD, DVD, Bluray, 4K Bluray, Pure audio Bluray, Audio DVD, SACD (Stereo and 5.1), VideoCD,.. without any issue.
I like to sound of the saber DAC, this is the reason why I picked the 205.
I use a Hybrid setup (stereo and HT). So, with the large connectivity, I can feed on one side a McIntosh 2500 preamp (with XLR), and on the other side a Yamaha HT system using HDMI. I plan to use also the 7.1 analog output to the Yamaha.
I use also the Oppo 205 as a DAC, plugging a HTPC with the USB connection, and a Roku connected to the HDMI input.
The remote is large, but very detailed. I use it in complement of a Universal Harmony remote, because some of the keys give me direct access to some functions (instead of using a menu), such as switching the audio for SACD (stereo to 5.1) or DVD/bluray tracks.
I use it also to access my ripped music and videos stored on NAS.
So far, I really enjoy the versatility and the performances, and I can not compare to any player I used in the past.
OPPO 203 with Oppomod linear power supply
Hello,
I just would like to report about the positive change in sound quality after I exchanged the OPPO´s switching-power supply against the Oppomod linear power supply in my 203.
It was done indeed within less than 10 minutes.
The 203 is connected via HDMI to my NAD M51 stereo-DAC/pre-amp.
I listend to CDs and SACDs and the sound turned from a somewhat "clean/analytical/cold" side to a still neutral but "fuller" and "warmer" side.
The singer aswell as the instruments got more "body", better seperation, can be better located on the stage....
I did not hope to obtain such an improvement, it´s great. Thanks.
Greetings from Germany,
Alexander
Hello,
I just would like to report about the positive change in sound quality after I exchanged the OPPO´s switching-power supply against the Oppomod linear power supply in my 203.
It was done indeed within less than 10 minutes.
The 203 is connected via HDMI to my NAD M51 stereo-DAC/pre-amp.
I listend to CDs and SACDs and the sound turned from a somewhat "clean/analytical/cold" side to a still neutral but "fuller" and "warmer" side.
The singer aswell as the instruments got more "body", better seperation, can be better located on the stage....
I did not hope to obtain such an improvement, it´s great. Thanks.
Greetings from Germany,
Alexander