Too bad the DSP version doesn't exist anymore. I would have ordered one straight away. I think it would be by far the most popular option overhere at DIY. Minidsp is great for easy setup DSP processing but their DA converters are really subpar. You could make a fortune with a good DSP version. Are there any plans for this in the pipeline?
I think it is related to the fact that the "nanosharc" from minidsp was discontinued as product, and that was the module responsible for the dsp inside the Okto I believe
The nanosharc was a pretty neat board with its USB input managed by Xmos and from there via i2s to an Analog Devices DSP processor. Minidsp has also a board called "minisharc" which lacks the USB input capability and you need you feed i2s to it instead. I have implemented that solution and it works well, but it is as good as the DACs you use after the minisharc.
https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-nanoSHARC.pdf
cheers
The nanosharc was a pretty neat board with its USB input managed by Xmos and from there via i2s to an Analog Devices DSP processor. Minidsp has also a board called "minisharc" which lacks the USB input capability and you need you feed i2s to it instead. I have implemented that solution and it works well, but it is as good as the DACs you use after the minisharc.
https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-nanoSHARC.pdf
cheers
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I would be happy enough with only a couple of spdif or aes/ebu inputs. There are not many DSP crossover options out there that have good quality DA converters onboard. I know the minisharc, it sounds pretty good. MiniDSP software is pretty good too, it's just that they haven't build anything with a decent sounding DAC in it. If it was possible with the nanosharc it should be possible with the minisharc as well I guess. A DSP version with a couple of inputs would be a killer machine and most probably a bigger sales succes than the standalone 8 channel dac. I for one know at least 4 people desperatly looking for a solution like that.
minisharc has also been discontinued by miniDSP to being sold as a DIY module. It is still the basic module used in many of their DSP products. I was looking to get this DAC module, but they switched to offering only completed DACs. I do have a minisharc. Just waiting for a good multi-channel DAC solution.
I really don't understand the MinDSP product line-up anymore. They are totally focussed on Dirac it seems. The only multiway crossover with volume control seems to be the outdated 10*10HD which has pretty bad sounding DACs on board, I know I have had one, flat uninvolving sound. You can have a look at the DDRC 88D which comes with a AES breakout cable. The DDRC 88A has again very mediocre DACs and strangely enough only analogue inputs which makes it very uninteresting to begin with. Besides, most of the price is for the Dirac license, none of my interest either. The SHD series is totally uninteresting as well, they are not suitable for crossover duties. They have lots of products that tick some boxes but none of them are ticking them all, they have none at the moment that is interesting for 3-4 way crossover/preamp duties. I really was hoping the Oktoresearch DSP version was still available, I just discovered it too late.
I totally get you, Sjef, and I understand your need. It seems to me though that the demand for a DSP with good DACs inside is not big enough (maybe) to justify design/develop/market such a product. Minidsp seems to have stopped mini/nanosharc as well. And by the way, we are talking here more of a crossover dsp than a dsp room correction, which seems to me precisely on the lines of Dirac.
I have toyed a lot with some of the crossover/dsp mini processors on the market. I find them all short of power to do something (more than) decent. You can use better dacs (like the Okto DAC8, for example) for sure, but in the end those dsp's work with not many coefficients for the filters.
You know, I ended up doing all dsp and crossover within a proper computer. There you can do just crossover if you like (with software like Dephonica, which is super powerful) and also design your own filters and convolve them with software like HQplayer. I have used them both and are far more powerful that any dsp processor for that purpose. I mean, come on, Dephonica can do filters with 60k coeficientes on the fly ... this software can even do phase alignment if you want....
My current system is a super powerfull desktop running HQplayer upsampling everything to DSD and multichannel. I am really looking forward to put the Okto DAC8 into this game hoping to get that last mile well.
just my two cents
I have toyed a lot with some of the crossover/dsp mini processors on the market. I find them all short of power to do something (more than) decent. You can use better dacs (like the Okto DAC8, for example) for sure, but in the end those dsp's work with not many coefficients for the filters.
You know, I ended up doing all dsp and crossover within a proper computer. There you can do just crossover if you like (with software like Dephonica, which is super powerful) and also design your own filters and convolve them with software like HQplayer. I have used them both and are far more powerful that any dsp processor for that purpose. I mean, come on, Dephonica can do filters with 60k coeficientes on the fly ... this software can even do phase alignment if you want....
My current system is a super powerfull desktop running HQplayer upsampling everything to DSD and multichannel. I am really looking forward to put the Okto DAC8 into this game hoping to get that last mile well.
just my two cents
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I have been looking at Dephonica as well (as well as other software), pretty childish-looking interface, but other than that it does seem to have potential. I still prefer a one box hardware solution by a large margin though. I am not using my system alone, it is also used by my family who want to watch movies via Chromecast or direct form PC, want to listen to Spotify via Bluetooth when I'm not at home. All PC crossover software adds to the complexity, they find the whole system with 4 power amps already complicated enough. That's my WAF approval factor. I am allowed to have as large a loudspeakers in the living room that I want as long as it always functions when I'm not there. They can handle my current preamp crossover but I want some more user flexibilty in crossover settings without more complexity. Just a standalone DSP box with remote volume control and input selector that's it. Maybe I just have to pull the plug and order an Analog Precision Ultimate preamp. It will cost me 4300 euro with import duties but it seems to be the only one on the planet at the moment that delivers a one-box solution even if it is a thousand euro above planned budget. As I said, I discovered the Oktoresearch DSP version too late after it allready had been discontinued, it really looked like the perfect solution for me, too bad.
Well, the solution is easy: for the family audio/video consumption buy yourself a Samsung sound bar with sub included and if you need a nice video player, the Nvidia shield pro is a killer. You cannot beat that and you’d be surprised how well that solution works together.
It is a mess to use an active expensive audio setup for video. I have big horns, delicate tube amps and compression drivers with beryllium diaphragms, there is just no way to go with all that just for a movie or some spoty playlist. And that is why I am willing to go the extra mile of diminishing returns. In my experience, dedicated dsp processors are a universe away of the results you can get with a proper computer and modern software.
Apart from that, I totally get your use case. It is perfectly valid and seams to be underserved by the market.
Let’s see if Pavel has any comments in regards to that
Cheers
It is a mess to use an active expensive audio setup for video. I have big horns, delicate tube amps and compression drivers with beryllium diaphragms, there is just no way to go with all that just for a movie or some spoty playlist. And that is why I am willing to go the extra mile of diminishing returns. In my experience, dedicated dsp processors are a universe away of the results you can get with a proper computer and modern software.
Apart from that, I totally get your use case. It is perfectly valid and seams to be underserved by the market.
Let’s see if Pavel has any comments in regards to that
Cheers
Hahaha, don't underestimate my family. I'm only allowed to have big loudspeakers in the house because they love the sound of it. They are music lovers and have become more critical listeners than I am over the years. A Samsung soundbar is an insult to them and I would never want one in the house either. Oh, I just love them, wouldn't you?
Add me to that list!
I found this unit,MINISHARC CONTROLLER -Integrated DSP - Preamplifier DAC Network player - Audiophonics
From MiniDSP i am considering the DRC-DA8. Only one Spdif input and a not so good DAC probably, but would work for the moment. It is based on the sharc board, so could expand with own DACs (I have the soekris R2R with I2S inputs), just as the audiophonics unit above...
But I would rather have okto Research unit doing this, as their specs are great and I have little time and interest in this part of DIY.
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I don't understand the requests for MiniDSP if you are using a descent PC for a front end. There are numerous PC software XO/DSP options available to drive the DAC8 Pro. Why lock yourself into just 1 vendor's software solution in a time-locked, resource restrained embedded add on piece of hardware ?
What am I missing ?
What am I missing ?
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My current DEQX crossover has survived no less than four PCs. Other than that, I want an easy to use system that my family can use that simply can't go wrong. And last, a dedicated endpoint sounds better than any windows PC I have tried, so why would I put a windows machine back in the chain again. I want a one-box solution with a power button, volume control and input selector that will work standalone in the next 15 years to come. Some might call this a stupid demand but my DEQX is already running for 15 years now without any hiccup, without skipping a beat, it turns on up and running in a second and it can go into my bedroom system for another 15 years to come. I'm not looking at Minidsp perse, I'm looking for a dedicated hardware solution for the above-mentioned reasons.
I don't want this to sound harsh, but the only problem with a 15 year old DEQX (like my 15 year old DEQX), is 15 year old software, 15 year old ADCs, 15 year old flash (read: won't hold 4 sets of 96KHz presets, doesn't support 192KHz), 15 year old DACs, 15 year old processors, 15 year old memory and stereo 3-way versus stereo 4-way. It is locked in time at 48KHz and it's software is relatively easy to use, but restricted in its options and speed.
I was fortunate enough to demo the OKTO DAC8 and IMO, I will take it over the old DEQX any day for sound quality and versatility. Once the software is configured, if someone can turn on a PC and run a player app, it is perfectly usable. You don't want everyone in your house configuring the DEQX software either.
Well that's not my experience. Mine still functions perfectly well, it has had not one issue ever over the years. None locking problems, none flash or memory problems, holds four 96kHz settings perfectly fine. No hardware problems either. The software is exactly the same as is being sold with the current units, the Sharc processors are also exactly the same as in the latest DEQX offerings. I never used the ADC's so can't comment on them. My DEQX has had a couple of hardware upgrades over the years and it literally sweeps the floor with any Minidsp offering I have tried to date, that's the reason I won't go that route, I don't want to downgrade. Off coarse my family don't program the DEQX, it's a set and forget device, they only have to turn it on and use the volume control and one second later there is music, that's it. And off course I expect the Oktoresearch DAC to sound better, that's the whole point. All I want is a little more flexibility then the DEQX offers and a step up in sound quality but not at the expense of convenience. What is with you guys that you just can't imagine that someone just wants a simple one-box solution? I know lots of things can be done with a PC solution but not in my case. Lot's of audiophiles are not allowed to have some decent loudspeakers, I am fortunate I can have literally 1/3th of the room filled with open baffle speakers and multiple subs but only at just one deal, it always has to work when I'm not at home by just a single push of a button with Spotify, Chromecast, Roon, Bluetooth and sound from a web browser, not just form a single computer player. It might be a high-end setup but it is still just a general-purpose family system. Anyways, why would I have to defend myself in my choices anyway? Oktoresearch once had the perfect offering but not anymore, All I ever wanted to know if there is a successor of it in the pipeline because I would buy one straight away. What software are you using if I may ask?
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I had mine updated once (to HDP-3) and am using the lastest software from about a year ago. It will do 96KHz, but the flash is not large enough to hold 4 fully populated 96KHz presets, only 3 at 96KHz and 4 at 48KHz. I was going to have it upgraded again to support 192KHz, but discovered 192 was a "marketing upgrade". The newer units supposedly can read 192KHz, but down convert it to use the old software internally instead of rewriting the software for native 192KHz support. That is when I decided not to do the subsequent upgrade.
As for the PC, there are multiple 64-bit software options to use. DIRAC has a PC product with new features in development, Audiolense, Acourate, REW/RePhase, JRMC, DRC-Designer, etc. I plan to use all 64-bit and then down-convert to 32-bit at the DAC interface. Currently using all 64-bit and down-converting to 24-bit with the current DAC.
I am currently using JRMC, REW/RePhase and may migrate to JRMC with (Acourate or Audiolense) once the DAC8 arrives. All are full 64-bit options. Also use JRMC's 64-bit master volume control and WDM so all PC sounds automatically go though the filters/XOs (e.g. Pandora, Spotify, etc.). It also supports are remote control volume or USB rotary volume control.
Are you biamping or triamping with yours ? If you are biamping, that maybe why you have room for 4 presets with an upgraded unit (unless you have upgraded past the HDP-3 level).
TIA