Scottmoose said:
Hey Scott, thanks for yet another helpful post.
Mount -
A general and non-directional note...I've navigated this forum for more than a year before posting. There are several reasons why people such as myself don't post regularly. There's the fear of being made to look or looking uninformed, and there's the discomfort of arguments to name but a few. People who don't just share their opinions, but feel the need to attack the opinions of others in a disrespectful manner are this, and any, forum's biggest enemy. Share your opinion, but allow others to judge the merits. If you feel the need to question someone's statement, do it respectfully. Those who don't directly and indirectly prohibit people from contributing thereby limiting the information and ideas brought forward. A real shame...
Dismount -
On a lighter note... and talking about stupidity, notice I deleted the back-chamber / compression chamber comment from the quote... hopefully no one noticed...
I'll try different supra-baffles. I've had good sonic results with marble, it's soft and workable, as well as fairly inert. I also have some hardwood somewhere, as part of the listening tests done this summer I'll prepare both. I'd like to try a few options with regards to the small "stands". I instinctively dislike them... but that's not based on science. Though I do wonder if they don't hamper breathing (can't think of a better term). I believe I'd prefer a brace akin to the Feastrex designs seen on this forum.
marekst said:
Hi Marek,
Thanks for sticking with me on this. I contacted Martin, just to get some feedback. He replied immediately and offered assistance. I can construct the front-horn myself, but if Martin is willing to share his experience it's only fair to "share the wealth", especially when it's not my wealth (such as it is) involved... What I did not think of was to ask for the first round section, thanks for that suggestion.
As for the experimentation, this is one of my favorite parts of projects such as these. A bunch of interested friends, my wife and I can sit around for hours, trying out different set-ups, components, materials... The thought of the Nagaoka style horns and Martin's horns in one room... not a bad prospect...
PM4A as a direct radiator
Can't say I am timely on this, but I have to throw it in. The PM4A has a rising high end. This works great in a large, front loaded horn which, because it does not properly horn load the top, results in a droopy high end. Perfectly offset by the PM4A rise.
But putting the PM4A in a back loaded horn without a front horn will result in a rising high end. Use the PM5A here instead. Put a copper voice coil in it, 15 ohm version highly preferred. Much nicer in this configuration, and cheaper too.
I will agree that using the metal stand for the PM4A in the Nagaoka is the wrong way to go. Build in a separate support for the back of the magnet instead. That is what the OPUS uses. Don't forget the damping material on the baffle behind the driver, failure to dampen the backwave will do all kinds of bad things in your midrange. My favorite with the 8" drivers is a Deflex Wrap pad glued to the back baffle. This does not work on the 5" drivers, but that is a different story.
As much as I enjoy trading DX4's for Ticonal's, I have never taken a dog in trade before. What kind is it?
Bert's ORIS horns are very nice, and I have a pair here. To my ears, the Azurahorn is a little nicer. YMMV.
Can't say I am timely on this, but I have to throw it in. The PM4A has a rising high end. This works great in a large, front loaded horn which, because it does not properly horn load the top, results in a droopy high end. Perfectly offset by the PM4A rise.
But putting the PM4A in a back loaded horn without a front horn will result in a rising high end. Use the PM5A here instead. Put a copper voice coil in it, 15 ohm version highly preferred. Much nicer in this configuration, and cheaper too.
I will agree that using the metal stand for the PM4A in the Nagaoka is the wrong way to go. Build in a separate support for the back of the magnet instead. That is what the OPUS uses. Don't forget the damping material on the baffle behind the driver, failure to dampen the backwave will do all kinds of bad things in your midrange. My favorite with the 8" drivers is a Deflex Wrap pad glued to the back baffle. This does not work on the 5" drivers, but that is a different story.
As much as I enjoy trading DX4's for Ticonal's, I have never taken a dog in trade before. What kind is it?
Bert's ORIS horns are very nice, and I have a pair here. To my ears, the Azurahorn is a little nicer. YMMV.
Hi All, Most interesting thread. I would like to throw in some recent experience with Lowthers (mine are silver coil PM2A) on bass horns.
I have been using 50Hz L shaped bass horns (basically the back of a pp horn made staright) together with compression driver front horns. I made horns to go low as possible (Le Cleac'h Horns of Fc 204 or 160) to get the crossover as low as possible, as I didnt want teh midrange coming down the long 2.3m horn.
I tried many drivers on the bass horn, including Vitavox and Goodmans alnico drivers. But always I returned to the Lowther PM2A (facing down the horn). Lately I tried the 425 horns I have been making for followers on Lynn Olsens " beyond the Ariel' thread on diyAudio, and raised the cross over to 800Hz (18dB slopes). Everything fell together in the most surprising way - couldnt help but feel immediately it was right.
All this to say that ,counter intuitively, Lowthers can sound great in the midrange down a long bass horn (with minimal folding perhaps) - and that it might be interesting to experiment with much smaller front horns on a pp type design, mostly for directivity control - Le Cleac'h with the full roll back.
best wishes to all,
martin
I have been using 50Hz L shaped bass horns (basically the back of a pp horn made staright) together with compression driver front horns. I made horns to go low as possible (Le Cleac'h Horns of Fc 204 or 160) to get the crossover as low as possible, as I didnt want teh midrange coming down the long 2.3m horn.
I tried many drivers on the bass horn, including Vitavox and Goodmans alnico drivers. But always I returned to the Lowther PM2A (facing down the horn). Lately I tried the 425 horns I have been making for followers on Lynn Olsens " beyond the Ariel' thread on diyAudio, and raised the cross over to 800Hz (18dB slopes). Everything fell together in the most surprising way - couldnt help but feel immediately it was right.
All this to say that ,counter intuitively, Lowthers can sound great in the midrange down a long bass horn (with minimal folding perhaps) - and that it might be interesting to experiment with much smaller front horns on a pp type design, mostly for directivity control - Le Cleac'h with the full roll back.
best wishes to all,
martin
genalex said:Lowther club of China build Opus 1b
Here are the Lowther China Opus 1's
My private email is quickly filling with suggestions - opinions - requests etc. The reactions have been more than I could have hoped for. Here's the latest update; for the Danish gentleman who started this journey I will build the Nagaoka style horn as well as the Opus 1. Both with the PM4A and starting in August, finished in October. These two designs will square off against each other... winner gets bought...
That being said, several members / friends have "offered" a listening ear, so loser will probably also find a home... The magic of Lowther in Bohemia... Speaking of home; for myself, and only after the above is done, I am going to experiment with Martin's horns. This to get some needed experience with Front Horns and the associated theory, and, of course, because it looks difficult (=fun). I believe the driver of choice for this design will be the PM2A.
I'm hopeful that in the meantime - slightly off-topic - I'll be able to build the open baffle Lowthers / Tone Tubby design.
Attachments
Hmm. At the risk of pointing out the blindingly obvious, 'squaring off' the Opus 1 against the double horn in a quest to find a 'winner' & 'looser' isn't going to tell you a whole lot. That's why I endevour not to use the words 'best' or 'better' when talking about speakers. In this case, they're completely different designs, with completely different requirements (for e.g., the double horns do not like being near room boundaries, & need a minimum listening distance of 8 1/2 - 9ft) and likely will have rather different tonalities, so they will probably prefer somewhat different amplifiers. And so on & so forth.
Scottmoose said:
Blindingly obvious indeed, thanks though.
Substitute "winner" with "preferred desing", he will need to make a choice... both designs will be built, both will end up in a good home, with the right equipment and set-up... I am that good.
When the time comes I'll share impressions, set-ups, pros and cons, all in carefully chosen words...
a variation on opus 1
Here is a link to an italian maker who is producing a slightly modified version of the opus 1.
http://www.maclementhorn.it/Lowther_Opus1.html
regards,
Here is a link to an italian maker who is producing a slightly modified version of the opus 1.
http://www.maclementhorn.it/Lowther_Opus1.html
regards,
Side Vivace anyone?
Thanks! These kinds of links really help with further developing the esthetics facet of the design.
I may as well utilize this opportunity to ask about the Side Vivace. Does anyone have any experience (building - listening to) this design?
hornophile said:
Thanks! These kinds of links really help with further developing the esthetics facet of the design.
I may as well utilize this opportunity to ask about the Side Vivace. Does anyone have any experience (building - listening to) this design?
Attachments
Re: Re: dimensions of those "shokokuji" horn ?
Hello guys,
I've been wanting to build a Sachiko for Lowther drivers for quite some time. I have yet to buy the drivers, so could go with the PMAx series. Also, I certainly would be willing to make a donation. Has this design been built yet? Is the expectation that this design will be a significant inprovement over the Sachiko. If so, in what areas are the expected improvements going to be?
Thanks!
planet10 said:
Hello guys,
I've been wanting to build a Sachiko for Lowther drivers for quite some time. I have yet to buy the drivers, so could go with the PMAx series. Also, I certainly would be willing to make a donation. Has this design been built yet? Is the expectation that this design will be a significant inprovement over the Sachiko. If so, in what areas are the expected improvements going to be?
Thanks!
AFAIK, at least one build is currently in the works. WRT 'improvement' over Sachiko, I don't really compare them per se, since this one was designed for the PM4a (8ohm) Lowther & the former was designed for the Fostex FE206E. Of the 8ohm drivers, the PM2a, PM5, DX3 & DX4 should also work reasonably in the cabinet. I can't speak for the 16ohm units.
Lowther Impedance
For what it is worth, I always order my A series drivers with 15 ohm voice coils, and non-hi-ferric. They just sound better in this configuration. Not true with the DX/EX series drivers, which sound better in the standard, 8 ohm, Hi-Ferric configuration. No, I don't know why so don't ask.
The compression chamber behind the driver may require some size tweaking to work with other drivers than the PM4A, but that is easy to fix. Just add some non-compressible material (wood, clay, etc.) into the compression chamber until the upper/mid bass sounds correct.
For what it is worth, I always order my A series drivers with 15 ohm voice coils, and non-hi-ferric. They just sound better in this configuration. Not true with the DX/EX series drivers, which sound better in the standard, 8 ohm, Hi-Ferric configuration. No, I don't know why so don't ask.
The compression chamber behind the driver may require some size tweaking to work with other drivers than the PM4A, but that is easy to fix. Just add some non-compressible material (wood, clay, etc.) into the compression chamber until the upper/mid bass sounds correct.
Indeed -many thanks for the input Jon; it's much appreciated. Interesting re the sound of the D/EX units -well worth knowing. The original cab. was for the 8ohm PM4a, with silver vc, and certainly, the back-chamber will need some tailoring WRT the damping arangements at least, & possibly a slight reduction in Vb as you suggest. Hard to know exactly what of course without being able to physically experiment, but IMO they all need some adjustment anyway to suit the individual conditions -room, system (particularly the interface with the amp etc), so I'm glad you brought this up.
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
