Navion wrote:
This would be a candidate for the crossover topology I proposed within the subtractive crossover thread.
Regards
Charles
This would be a candidate for the crossover topology I proposed within the subtractive crossover thread.
Regards
Charles
nope 7V. ain't done no sums yet. i have yet to choose the fullranges. lead contenders are teh fostex 103/108, jordan jx92, tb W4 930SA, 927SA, 657SC, 655SA, 654S, etc.
it is just a rough sketch in my head.
When u use 4 drivers did you hear any real problems with the expected lobing and acompaning cancelation?
i figure with 2 4" (100mm) drivers I would get lobing about 3.3-3.4k (330-340 3m/s is speed of sound). given that i like a laid back speaker and any peaks in this area can appear to make a speaker shout this cancellation might actually work in my favour.
then i bring the tweeter in about 5k or 6k using a single cap and maybe use an inductor to roll of the fullranges.
option 2 of course is to use a 2.5 way XO using 1st order LP at about 300Hz (maybe lower), letting the second fulrange run all the way and bringing the tweeter in at 10k or above whenever the natural roll off the the fullrange gets nasty or low.
it is just a rough sketch in my head.
When u use 4 drivers did you hear any real problems with the expected lobing and acompaning cancelation?
i figure with 2 4" (100mm) drivers I would get lobing about 3.3-3.4k (330-340 3m/s is speed of sound). given that i like a laid back speaker and any peaks in this area can appear to make a speaker shout this cancellation might actually work in my favour.
then i bring the tweeter in about 5k or 6k using a single cap and maybe use an inductor to roll of the fullranges.
option 2 of course is to use a 2.5 way XO using 1st order LP at about 300Hz (maybe lower), letting the second fulrange run all the way and bringing the tweeter in at 10k or above whenever the natural roll off the the fullrange gets nasty or low.
When you listen to the Nonsuch 4s you have to sit down. If you stand up you lose the treble and some of the 'life' goes out of the sound. Is this a problem? Not if you're sitting.navin said:
The up side is that ceiling and floor reflections are reduced which does a lot to take the room out of the equation and improves the imaging.
Therefore, maybe you should try to mount the two units as close together as possible, to increase that 3.4kHz as far as you can.
I found the VPR - Vertical Polar Response program quite handy.
It could be handy to have some flexibility with the crossovers/inductors/caps so you can play around after construction.
navin said:
I've a plan to do something like this (but with an extra pr of drivers on the back). I have the FE103A & a set of Aurum Cantus ribbons. Will use active XO -- either subtractive, or built into the interstage coupling of the amps, or a combo (EL84 on the bottom, EL95 on the top).
dave
dave i know. i was struggling with the fullrange cancellation thing till you suggested that a tweeter above 5K would solve this yet are you planning on running the 103s fullrange?
also my expected box size is in the region of 10 liters. 4 x 103 will not work well in such a small box. how much box volume does an 103 need? or for that matter 7V do you know what volume a JX92 needs? for an F3 of 100Hz or so.
dave in some ways living in a cold couuntry helps. the tubes will serve well as a heater. in India esp in Bombay where humidity is also an issue this tends to get hot. very hot. also are you looking at building this into a 5.1/7.1/HT/Av system or just plain stereo
I have seen some driver in India that have a NdFeB or SmCo magnet and are very shallow. about than 25mm. the chassis is stamped frame but the manufactuer told me he is tryingt o get a oulded plastic basket. a well made moulded plastic basket might offer better rigidity and damping than the thin metal gauge i saw.
what kids of SPL (at 100Hz) can I expect with 2 100mm drivers with a Xmax or 2-3mm?
also my expected box size is in the region of 10 liters. 4 x 103 will not work well in such a small box. how much box volume does an 103 need? or for that matter 7V do you know what volume a JX92 needs? for an F3 of 100Hz or so.
dave in some ways living in a cold couuntry helps. the tubes will serve well as a heater. in India esp in Bombay where humidity is also an issue this tends to get hot. very hot. also are you looking at building this into a 5.1/7.1/HT/Av system or just plain stereo
I have seen some driver in India that have a NdFeB or SmCo magnet and are very shallow. about than 25mm. the chassis is stamped frame but the manufactuer told me he is tryingt o get a oulded plastic basket. a well made moulded plastic basket might offer better rigidity and damping than the thin metal gauge i saw.
what kids of SPL (at 100Hz) can I expect with 2 100mm drivers with a Xmax or 2-3mm?
5k? 6k? 10k?
would love to see the final design? Is this your 1st fullrange / wideranged based 2way? have you exprimented with the TBs or Jordan before using teh Fostexs?
would love to see the final design? Is this your 1st fullrange / wideranged based 2way? have you exprimented with the TBs or Jordan before using teh Fostexs?
FWIW, I've arrived at a XO point for my BV2 of 4475Hz. I'm using a .18mH, and 4.6uF series XO on two Pioneer B20s crossed to a GR-T6 tweeter. Measures reasonably flat in JustMLS.
navin said:
Talkin' to me?
I'd like 7k but i won't know if i can get away with that high... by all the "rules" it should be more like 3-4k ... as far as i've got on paper attached.
This will be a 3-way with separate push-push woofers -- i have 4 nice extended range Foster 12".
The "mostly" full range system is a concept i've been playing with for some-time.
dave
Attachments
planet10 said:
if i am not getting to inquisitive...
can the tweeter u got work as low at 3k?
are you looking at a higher order XO for the tweeter if you go that low?
i was trying to use a 1st order series XO for my system. after my last expriment with series XO i find that they integrate a lot better than convetional XOs.
how low do you plan to take the 103? what box volume will 4 x 103 require in your design?
Are the 12" Foster or Fostex? Are these cos related?
navin said:
It can, but it would need a steeper XO than i'd like
If i can't get away with a 5-7k XO, i'll rethink the whole thing.
they can probably reach down to about 80 Hz but i'll roll them off a bit higher -- not higher than 150 thou.
Foster... Fostex is a subsiduary of Foster... for every fostex driver made today there are probably a 100 Fosters ... the 12s are mid 70s vintage and were used up to about 3.5k so i shouldn't have trouble integrating them.
dave
dave
i thought u gonna use the 12" for subs.
foster? are these the sme guys who made the foster leaf / ribbon tweater?
foster? are these the sme guys who made the foster leaf / ribbon tweater?
i went the fostex website. found the FW108N. it is listed under woofers but really work till 5k. any opinions of this driver? either of these 103 and 107 all can go as low as 100Hz in 6 liters or so as per their website. how accurate are these estimates?
navin said:
Yes, 2 x 12" per box with a stereo pair... they won't really be subs in today's definition, but i should be able to get at least 30 Hz out of them.
Foster is one of the big (i mean really BIG) Japanese OEM speaker manufacturers... everything from intercome speakers thru computer speakers (ie the PowerBooks & eMacs use Fosters) thru to Pro & hi-end hifi... their end market presence is under the Fostex brand name. They have manufacturing facilities all over Asia.
navin said:
I have direct experience with only one Fostex woofer (FW228?). They were used push-push XOed to Heil ribbons. They are very good. Everytime i see another Fostex driver my respect for this companies drivers grows.
dave
tubular loudspeaker enclosure
Hi Surf, Sun&Sound, use Google and enter 'olsen system tubular loudspeaker enclosure'
All of your concerns have already been solved progressively over the last 30 odd years! I could send you a brocure if you like.
I have used various versions at 234 house parties with never a problem, just pure tension free sound. They (the speakers) love Jazz, with the finest detail. There are around 300 of them somewhere across Australia.
olysys
Hi Surf, Sun&Sound, use Google and enter 'olsen system tubular loudspeaker enclosure'
All of your concerns have already been solved progressively over the last 30 odd years! I could send you a brocure if you like.
I have used various versions at 234 house parties with never a problem, just pure tension free sound. They (the speakers) love Jazz, with the finest detail. There are around 300 of them somewhere across Australia.
olysys
If not the intention is to construct something ourselves, my vote goes to the BassZilla as a starting poit and then maybe rework it to suit different driver of our choice.
It looks like Dick Olsher is planning to make a new version of Basszilla
with the Fe 206, to use with Nelson Pass's current amp(s?)
Also has a Fountek JP-3.0R ribbon tweeter and Sonicraft SC-1250 12" woofer. It should be a lot cheaper and smaller than any of the current ones:
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_46.html
with the Fe 206, to use with Nelson Pass's current amp(s?)
Also has a Fountek JP-3.0R ribbon tweeter and Sonicraft SC-1250 12" woofer. It should be a lot cheaper and smaller than any of the current ones:
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_46.html
i've just finished reading the entire thread and it's surprising that it's over 3 years old and only 7 pages of posts.
Anyway i'm very interested in the similar project since i just dived into a world of fullrange but already see the shortcomings of FR drivers. (most important for me is inability to play different kinds of music except jazz and piano, i would like some rock too 🙂 )
I'm using FT1600MKII 40-20khz FE167E but low bass immidiately destroys the highs.
I can live with 93ish dB SPL, narrow sweet spot and without a tweeter right now but i would want to cut in 12"-15" woofers at 80-100hz to illiminate the doppler shift and distortion that lower freq. have on high end.
It would be also VERY interesting to see the new BassZilla T since i admired the original speaker but couldn't afford it.
I looked at the 'olsen system tubular loudspeaker enclosure' but wasn't convinced since i saw nothing more than a hype at the website. At least general idea would be nice if not plans.'
Let's keep this thread alive people.
Anyway i'm very interested in the similar project since i just dived into a world of fullrange but already see the shortcomings of FR drivers. (most important for me is inability to play different kinds of music except jazz and piano, i would like some rock too 🙂 )
I'm using FT1600MKII 40-20khz FE167E but low bass immidiately destroys the highs.
I can live with 93ish dB SPL, narrow sweet spot and without a tweeter right now but i would want to cut in 12"-15" woofers at 80-100hz to illiminate the doppler shift and distortion that lower freq. have on high end.
It would be also VERY interesting to see the new BassZilla T since i admired the original speaker but couldn't afford it.
I looked at the 'olsen system tubular loudspeaker enclosure' but wasn't convinced since i saw nothing more than a hype at the website. At least general idea would be nice if not plans.'
Let's keep this thread alive people.
one option might be the Jordan JX92 with a sub. some tell me that the JX92 is fussy about the kinda sub driver it is mated to. it prefers ones that are expensive (ScanSpeak, Focal, PHL etc) not the $100-200 12"-15" Xmax monsters.
Coming across this thread again, it struck me that I have landed up with virtually what was proposed originally.
I have TL woofers going up to around 70 Hz, Goodmans 201's on open baffles going up from there (with no corssovers on the 201's) , and with some assistance from tweeters from around 10 Khz up.
Full details here or if you just want to read about the woofers, click here . 😉
I have TL woofers going up to around 70 Hz, Goodmans 201's on open baffles going up from there (with no corssovers on the 201's) , and with some assistance from tweeters from around 10 Khz up.
Full details here or if you just want to read about the woofers, click here . 😉