SCD said:
He doesn't have one yet but maybe in the future.
Fran?
I would love to find myself up your way Scott so I can have a listen without all those perople and beer around. 😉
Cal Weldon said:
Well, you might have some company, and I can't imagine the 2 of y'all listening without some beers involved.
Ot F4
Hello again Chris:
Yes I spent a wonderful evening with Don Austin at his place a couple of months ago. We listened to the F4+Grounded Grid+Fe126 fruglehorn. I was really impressed. I had not spent a lot of time with the horns in the past so it was a nice experience. I think the F4 showed off the band width, speed and clarity of the grounded grid and really made the horns sing. Compared to his Zen there was significantly more band width and all the sparkle in the top end.
You are right about the power buffer. It adds nothing but current to the signal. This seems like a simple statement but the impacts are nothing short of wonderful when it comes to the Fostex drivers.
I am keen to hear this with either your 2A3 or Frank's 45. If the article in 6moons has any merit this should be the real meal deal. I will let you know the next time I am coming to the city so we can spend an evening enjoying some tunes.
Nuff said for now
Hello again Chris:
Yes I spent a wonderful evening with Don Austin at his place a couple of months ago. We listened to the F4+Grounded Grid+Fe126 fruglehorn. I was really impressed. I had not spent a lot of time with the horns in the past so it was a nice experience. I think the F4 showed off the band width, speed and clarity of the grounded grid and really made the horns sing. Compared to his Zen there was significantly more band width and all the sparkle in the top end.
You are right about the power buffer. It adds nothing but current to the signal. This seems like a simple statement but the impacts are nothing short of wonderful when it comes to the Fostex drivers.
I am keen to hear this with either your 2A3 or Frank's 45. If the article in 6moons has any merit this should be the real meal deal. I will let you know the next time I am coming to the city so we can spend an evening enjoying some tunes.
Nuff said for now
Scott - at the rate Frank is downsizing his system, you might want to plan that sooner rather than later.
Visits
Well my friend Cal I am quite easy to find. There is a big island just off the west coast from Vancouver. You have probably seen it, it gets in the way of sun sets for you when you go to the beach. Take one of those big white boats across the water ( yes an over sea vacation)
Drive about 1/2 way up the big island take exit 144 drive a few 14 km to the north and look for a big timber frame house with a red truck parked in the driveway.
That's me.
See you soon
Oh yah bring beer
Well my friend Cal I am quite easy to find. There is a big island just off the west coast from Vancouver. You have probably seen it, it gets in the way of sun sets for you when you go to the beach. Take one of those big white boats across the water ( yes an over sea vacation)
Drive about 1/2 way up the big island take exit 144 drive a few 14 km to the north and look for a big timber frame house with a red truck parked in the driveway.
That's me.
See you soon
Oh yah bring beer
OH YEAH BABY!!!
the BSC has sorted out the bass problem. Bass is now lovely, full and the sound is no longer harsh anywhere. I had a quick listen and am really happy with it. The sound is a lot warmer - but then I used really crappy components, caps in parallel, carbon resistors and so on. The only god bit was a solen inductor.
For the record i used Martin spreadsheet and it gave me a zobel network of 8R and 0.71uF (I used 0.68) and a 1.5mH and 6.8R in parallel on the hot.
I have since taken back out a good bit of the stuffing but haven' been able to have a listen since. i will later though!
Very happy now, really feel as if I've made good progress.
Fran
the BSC has sorted out the bass problem. Bass is now lovely, full and the sound is no longer harsh anywhere. I had a quick listen and am really happy with it. The sound is a lot warmer - but then I used really crappy components, caps in parallel, carbon resistors and so on. The only god bit was a solen inductor.
For the record i used Martin spreadsheet and it gave me a zobel network of 8R and 0.71uF (I used 0.68) and a 1.5mH and 6.8R in parallel on the hot.
I have since taken back out a good bit of the stuffing but haven' been able to have a listen since. i will later though!
Very happy now, really feel as if I've made good progress.
Fran
Update:
A friend has given me a loan of a very nice SET amp using 45 valves. Wow what a difference! There is still a touch of harshness, particularly with female vocals, and for some reason my CDP sounds much better than either of my vinyl rigs, but I'm hoping that some better components in the BSC will help with that.
Can someone explain to me why:
1. The SET sounds much better than the EL84PP amp?
2. The CDP sounds better with better bass quality and quantity than the vinyl set ups?
System: Eastsound CDE5 CDP, Teres TT with benz L2 cart>>phonoclone>> aikido pre>> either SYs red light district EL84 amp or an Ecofan SET amp>>> the fonkens.
I also have a rebuilt/replinthed lenco with a DIY unipivot and a ZYX R50 into another phonoclone.
These questions are driving me mad!
Fran
A friend has given me a loan of a very nice SET amp using 45 valves. Wow what a difference! There is still a touch of harshness, particularly with female vocals, and for some reason my CDP sounds much better than either of my vinyl rigs, but I'm hoping that some better components in the BSC will help with that.
Can someone explain to me why:
1. The SET sounds much better than the EL84PP amp?
2. The CDP sounds better with better bass quality and quantity than the vinyl set ups?
System: Eastsound CDE5 CDP, Teres TT with benz L2 cart>>phonoclone>> aikido pre>> either SYs red light district EL84 amp or an Ecofan SET amp>>> the fonkens.
I also have a rebuilt/replinthed lenco with a DIY unipivot and a ZYX R50 into another phonoclone.
These questions are driving me mad!
Fran
woodturner-fran said:
Well, not all SET's necessarily will, but the 45 can be pretty special (as with everything else, it's a matter of execution)
The same buddy of mine with the FE206ESRs and Welborne DRD45's has a Teres table (and I honestly forget which arm / LOMC cartridge), and K&K Audio phono pre with MC step-up transformers. If there's bass on the record, you'll hear it with a degree of textural refinement and articulation that the his Tjoeb or my Jolida simply don't achieve - so to my ears, that's "better".
Turntables can certainly be like high performance motor vehicles (2 or 4 wheeled) - set-up, calibration / tuning can make a huge difference. Even in the days when the LP12 was near the pinnacle of consumer 'tables, a well set-up Rega could eat a poorly set-up Linn's lunch, for a fraction of the cost.
that's were the fun is ? 😕
I agree with all that Chris,
but heres the kicker:
When I connect back up the El84 to the quads, the situation reverses ad now vinyl is clearly king!!
Yes, that is where the fun is...
Fran
but heres the kicker:
When I connect back up the El84 to the quads, the situation reverses ad now vinyl is clearly king!!
Yes, that is where the fun is...
Fran
Well Fran:
It seems you have some complications. The synergy of the system is at play here.
Of course you know I have no real answers for you.
It does sound like you are destined to build at least one more amp though. Given your comments about the 45. You may be on the road to building a real SET, perhaps a 45, 2A3, 300b or the like.
Perhaps the output transformers or component compliment of the EL84PP are showing up.
CDP vs TT
The only thing that comes to mind for me is to check the VTA and other fine adjustments of the set up. I think that VTA has a big impact on the bass of a turntable set up.
Good luck those are interesting challenges to chase down
It seems you have some complications. The synergy of the system is at play here.
Of course you know I have no real answers for you.
It does sound like you are destined to build at least one more amp though. Given your comments about the 45. You may be on the road to building a real SET, perhaps a 45, 2A3, 300b or the like.
Perhaps the output transformers or component compliment of the EL84PP are showing up.
CDP vs TT
The only thing that comes to mind for me is to check the VTA and other fine adjustments of the set up. I think that VTA has a big impact on the bass of a turntable set up.
Good luck those are interesting challenges to chase down
Coincidentally I was just coming back here to post and you have done one in front of me!!
So I boxed up that BSC and I swear to god it sounds better since I cased it all up!!! I got a lend of a 45 SET amp and it sounds lovely - really nice. However, my own EL84 amp is sounding pretty good too. Add into all of that the fact that the cap in the BSC is actually 2 caps paralleled that I scavenged from a PC power supply.....
But madisound shipped my order yesterday so I have some of their GE caps coming. Hopefully that will help matters.
I also bought the makings of a mini-aleph amp, so we'll see what that does to the sonics when I get ti made and cased.
A friend is calling in a few nights with a DNM amp and rehdeko speakers for a comparison and I have another pair of small boxes with some jordans to have a listen as well then...
Fran
So I boxed up that BSC and I swear to god it sounds better since I cased it all up!!! I got a lend of a 45 SET amp and it sounds lovely - really nice. However, my own EL84 amp is sounding pretty good too. Add into all of that the fact that the cap in the BSC is actually 2 caps paralleled that I scavenged from a PC power supply.....
But madisound shipped my order yesterday so I have some of their GE caps coming. Hopefully that will help matters.
I also bought the makings of a mini-aleph amp, so we'll see what that does to the sonics when I get ti made and cased.
A friend is calling in a few nights with a DNM amp and rehdeko speakers for a comparison and I have another pair of small boxes with some jordans to have a listen as well then...
Fran
Gratuitous post alert:
The fonkens in grey primer:
and the rather nice 45 SET amp that I snagged a loan of:
Look at the date code on that:
Fran
The fonkens in grey primer:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and the rather nice 45 SET amp that I snagged a loan of:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Look at the date code on that:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Fran
Some more progress:
Well the story runs like this. I made a set of fonkens, and a set of fonken towers. I have tried them with a good range of amps etc (see above) and while there was fair improvement with the SET amp, ultimately they are just too lacking in bass. I mean its there, but it would seem that the -3dB point is just too high.
They can sound a bit harsh and can be shouty (these are using some FE127E enabled) but I can see the attraction of the mid clarity and so on, but they aren't livable with long term. Now to be fair, my references are a set of Quad 57s which although coloured in their own way, are indeed hard to live up to. I don't think I'm a bass head (eg I don't own a subwoof) and it is an oft-stated criticism of quads that they don't do bass - but I would happy with that level of bass. If I did have a sub, and it was well integrated, I can imagine that these would be a great set of speakers.
So what to do about the fonkens. Loads of people seem to be very happy with them. The freq curve looks good. I know that these drivers can be a bit harsh, but tonight I tried them in a different cabinet and while a little edginess was still there (and it was only a little), they sounded pretty good with a good level of bass and handling complex passages very well at pretty loud volume. So its not the drivers as such which now leads me to think that there is some basic mistake that I did when making the fonkens - both of them. Can't see what it is though. I will get a neutral third party to double check what I did in case there is something stupid wrong.
So thats my story so far and enlightenment would be much appreciated. The quest goes on!!
Fran
Well the story runs like this. I made a set of fonkens, and a set of fonken towers. I have tried them with a good range of amps etc (see above) and while there was fair improvement with the SET amp, ultimately they are just too lacking in bass. I mean its there, but it would seem that the -3dB point is just too high.
They can sound a bit harsh and can be shouty (these are using some FE127E enabled) but I can see the attraction of the mid clarity and so on, but they aren't livable with long term. Now to be fair, my references are a set of Quad 57s which although coloured in their own way, are indeed hard to live up to. I don't think I'm a bass head (eg I don't own a subwoof) and it is an oft-stated criticism of quads that they don't do bass - but I would happy with that level of bass. If I did have a sub, and it was well integrated, I can imagine that these would be a great set of speakers.
So what to do about the fonkens. Loads of people seem to be very happy with them. The freq curve looks good. I know that these drivers can be a bit harsh, but tonight I tried them in a different cabinet and while a little edginess was still there (and it was only a little), they sounded pretty good with a good level of bass and handling complex passages very well at pretty loud volume. So its not the drivers as such which now leads me to think that there is some basic mistake that I did when making the fonkens - both of them. Can't see what it is though. I will get a neutral third party to double check what I did in case there is something stupid wrong.
So thats my story so far and enlightenment would be much appreciated. The quest goes on!!
Fran
Dave,
I can answer that one for Fran because it was my boxes that we listened to this afternoon with the Fostex drivers mounted in them instead of Jordan Jx92S drivers.
the boxes are the 3D spiral horns thread that certainly gave the Fostex enough bass to be happy with, especially playing vinyl! And this was a reverse of the previous preference the vinyl was the better sounding source now
We did a tone test and AFAIR 40? to 50Hz was reasonable sounding. Fran can correct me here I'm sure!
I can answer that one for Fran because it was my boxes that we listened to this afternoon with the Fostex drivers mounted in them instead of Jordan Jx92S drivers.
the boxes are the 3D spiral horns thread that certainly gave the Fostex enough bass to be happy with, especially playing vinyl! And this was a reverse of the previous preference the vinyl was the better sounding source now
We did a tone test and AFAIR 40? to 50Hz was reasonable sounding. Fran can correct me here I'm sure!
Can you post pics of your execution? This design has facinated me, and the one i heard with FR125 was very good. Execution can be difficult thou.
dave
dave
Yes,
see the thread over in the regular speakers section and you'll see what I'm on about. Thats how I know it isn't the driver. The box in question is actually designed for the FE126E but it sounds pretty good with a lashed together BSC which was not optimised for the box/driver. From listening to the log and linear freq curves it is apparent that they are a bit lumpy in the response but in reality its not something thats really objectionable.
BTW, on-axis wasn't great but if you were in the hot seat, there was a very comfortable amount of bass and much of the hardness at higher frequencies were gone. This is just a hunch, and a newbie/laymans hunch at that, but it feels like the kinda thing you could tweak out of it by adjusting the BSC a little and also optimising positioning etc.
All this experimentation is certainly feeding the habit right now!
Fran
see the thread over in the regular speakers section and you'll see what I'm on about. Thats how I know it isn't the driver. The box in question is actually designed for the FE126E but it sounds pretty good with a lashed together BSC which was not optimised for the box/driver. From listening to the log and linear freq curves it is apparent that they are a bit lumpy in the response but in reality its not something thats really objectionable.
BTW, on-axis wasn't great but if you were in the hot seat, there was a very comfortable amount of bass and much of the hardness at higher frequencies were gone. This is just a hunch, and a newbie/laymans hunch at that, but it feels like the kinda thing you could tweak out of it by adjusting the BSC a little and also optimising positioning etc.
All this experimentation is certainly feeding the habit right now!
Fran
Dave - simultaneous post - have a look at teh 3D thread and in post 30 theres a link to some build pics.
Not that hard to do
Fran
Not that hard to do
Fran