Hi Berhard.
I understand that multi-bit had more detail sound than the 1Bit.
use NPC SM5864 was reference for the Japan Digital magzine.
But they use PLL( phase Lock Loop) to lock the Clock. I guessed that there was not easy to test every dac & hope to hear the sound quality of the 5864. So I choose this chips. I Hong Kong. I cannot get the 1862 J or NJ grade. & not cheap. approx USD 30 per one. if I use the 8414,1890,5842 with twoTCXO & two 1862.
Ad797. looks will very expensive. I understand the PWM output stage of the 5864 not better than AD1862 but PCM1702 ( not good) PCM63K I must order from CC Poon & not cheap. So there may be only choice was the 1704.
But the DAC7 ( 1bit was running in 256Fs but 5864 was running in 384Fs) I hope to know the different about the sound quality.
so any comment for this.
thx
thomas
I understand that multi-bit had more detail sound than the 1Bit.
use NPC SM5864 was reference for the Japan Digital magzine.
But they use PLL( phase Lock Loop) to lock the Clock. I guessed that there was not easy to test every dac & hope to hear the sound quality of the 5864. So I choose this chips. I Hong Kong. I cannot get the 1862 J or NJ grade. & not cheap. approx USD 30 per one. if I use the 8414,1890,5842 with twoTCXO & two 1862.
Ad797. looks will very expensive. I understand the PWM output stage of the 5864 not better than AD1862 but PCM1702 ( not good) PCM63K I must order from CC Poon & not cheap. So there may be only choice was the 1704.
But the DAC7 ( 1bit was running in 256Fs but 5864 was running in 384Fs) I hope to know the different about the sound quality.
so any comment for this.
thx
thomas
I think multibit is not more detailed. Bitstream, if it is good like Pioneer PD75 / Sony X-55 ES / Onkyo 6890 has very good linearity and sounds smooth because of that, but perhaps little bit tired dynamics, I have to make more listening tests for myself to compare.
Where you get that PCM1702 is bad ? My opinion too
PCM56 sounds most open to me. Just got another new old players Yamaha CDX1110 & CDX5000 with PCM56, both very nice.
You will have lot of customers with 1704...
Where you get that PCM1702 is bad ? My opinion too
PCM56 sounds most open to me. Just got another new old players Yamaha CDX1110 & CDX5000 with PCM56, both very nice.
You will have lot of customers with 1704...
Bernhard said:
It got pots...at least mine got pots.
...but the way the AD1862's are used are hardly "standard"...see: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=281643#post281643
Have a couple of questions:
Think I'll need a spectrum analyzer if I want to be able to adjust my AD1862's in their new environment (not quite sure what yet, but I'll just have to put them into use !?)
Is there any of the software based spectrum analyzers (together with an Live! or AudigyZX) that is good enough for the job ?
What about the signal, where do I get hold of a CD containing the right frequence(s) ?
Lyra
Hi Bernhard, I was wondering about the measurement setup.
Do you test the standalone DUT (DAC) or you play pre-recorded 1kHz -60dB test signal and test the entire signal path from optical pick up to the RCA output connectors of the player?
This would be critical for the way your mesurement results and conclusions should be understood.
Do you test the standalone DUT (DAC) or you play pre-recorded 1kHz -60dB test signal and test the entire signal path from optical pick up to the RCA output connectors of the player?
This would be critical for the way your mesurement results and conclusions should be understood.
beauty_divine said:
Usually I write in which player the chip was tested.
It is always a test-CD and there are differences between players.
For example Philips CD960 performes less good compared to a few other Philips players.
Also my favorite DAC chip PCM56 performes different in a Denon with 4x os and a Yamaha with 8x os.
Some are better in the Denon, others in the Yamaha, while the Yamaha gives best overall results.
This is due to different os rates IMHO.
However the differences are not huge and differences between a good chip and a bad chip dominate clearly.
Also chips perform less good in non os, TDA1541 linearity suffers more from non os than PCM56, see recent posts...
I did not look for differences in transports for external DACs.
Don't be tempted to believe that performance heavyly depends on implementation and that one chip that was found to be mediocre in one setup, could outperform everything else with a superclock or the golden groundplane.
Anyway the chips are only samples, every chip of the same type is different because of manufacturing tolerances as long as it is a multibit DAC.
But there are chips types of which 50% are good and others of which 99% are bad.
hifi, I have a problem with my email program...
No, there are two different things.
One is that a CD960 with os compared to a CD304mkII or a CD880 with os has slightly higher distortion using the exactly same SAA and TDA chips in sockets.
The other is that TDA in non os has higher distortion compared to os in any Philips player.
The first op amp and the most critical is the I/V stage and that has to deal with 176khz when in os, but only 44 khz when non os !!!
Still, the slew rate of the stepped unfiltered signal from step to step is always the same regardless if os or non os.
Also the slew rate is limited by a parallel cap in all philips players.
So that op amp or op amps in the filter stage has nothing to do with it.
Also in my external DAC with PCM56, even completely passive it is worse ( but still beats any TDA in os ) than in a 8x os player with same chips.
No, there are two different things.
One is that a CD960 with os compared to a CD304mkII or a CD880 with os has slightly higher distortion using the exactly same SAA and TDA chips in sockets.
The other is that TDA in non os has higher distortion compared to os in any Philips player.
The first op amp and the most critical is the I/V stage and that has to deal with 176khz when in os, but only 44 khz when non os !!!
Still, the slew rate of the stepped unfiltered signal from step to step is always the same regardless if os or non os.
Also the slew rate is limited by a parallel cap in all philips players.
So that op amp or op amps in the filter stage has nothing to do with it.
Also in my external DAC with PCM56, even completely passive it is worse ( but still beats any TDA in os
) than in a 8x os player with same chips.
DAC roulette
Received a pair of nos ceramic PCM53 today from forum member Ruach who kindly bought them for me in Singapore.
My lucky day, one of those is very good: Worst harmonic -64 dB.
The horizontal line is where the noise floor would be without averaging.
The other one is average: Worst harmonic -55 dB.
Others are as bad as -40dB...
Huge variations that call for test equipment if somebody seriously want to build a DAC with multibit chips-
Not only with this old but sometimes excellent chip.
Bitstream excluded...
Received a pair of nos ceramic PCM53 today from forum member Ruach who kindly bought them for me in Singapore.
My lucky day, one of those is very good: Worst harmonic -64 dB.
The horizontal line is where the noise floor would be without averaging.
The other one is average: Worst harmonic -55 dB.
Others are as bad as -40dB...
Huge variations that call for test equipment if somebody seriously want to build a DAC with multibit chips-
Not only with this old but sometimes excellent chip.
Bitstream excluded...
Somebody steal my pictures and (mis-)uses my scientific studies ( IP ) without permission
http://cgi.ebay.com/PCM56-PCM56p-DA...ryZ38071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and (mis-)uses my scientific studies ( IP ) without permission http://cgi.ebay.com/PCM56-PCM56p-DA...ryZ38071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Today I took the time to measure PCM1704 no K in a CAL CL2500.
Better channel @ -60 dB:
Much worse channel:
The Yamaha CDX-1110 with MSB adjust, I also used that as transport for the CAL:
LSB test disc track 15 PCM1704 better channel:
LSB test disc track 15 PCM56 better channel:
Nothing beats a properly adjusted good PCM56...
Better channel @ -60 dB:
Much worse channel:
The Yamaha CDX-1110 with MSB adjust, I also used that as transport for the CAL:
LSB test disc track 15 PCM1704 better channel:
LSB test disc track 15 PCM56 better channel:
Nothing beats a properly adjusted good PCM56...
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Soundcard + software + preamp.
I have a few good soundcards but I'm too lazy to look for software.
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