Soooo... I need direction on how to determine the proper Cap for the system if I wanted a high pass of about 200hz as has been suggested by other members.. Also where would others recommend I cut out lower frequencies of the upper OB driver??
Honestly, I don't know anything about crossover design, but using this simple calculator I think a first order hi-pass would be a capacitor of 126uf.
Passive Crossovers, Capacitor and Coil Calculator
You wouldn't want to crossover the speakers this high in almost any situation anyway. Only if you had a dedicated subwoofer able to play up to 200hz. The highest you would want to high-pass in 99.9% of cases would be 80hz. You would then use a subwoofer low-passed to 80hz.
Unless you're trying to improve power handling (get louder), I see absolutely no reason to put a high-pass on the speakers.
A high-pass, as of right now, has been shown by modeling to be absolutely pointless. The TC9FD in the ported enclosure has less power handling then the open baffle TC9FD.
Both drivers run in the proper enclosure with zero high-passing should be enough volume for most people.
Put it like this, my current system Is a 2.3W/channel Decware SE84 UFO SET amplifier. Yes, it's a $1k+ amplifier for 2.3 watts RMS/ channel. I have my amp connected to a DIY stereo MLTL fullrange 10F/8414G-10 ($65 variant of TC9FD). I never go past half way on my volume pot.
These Nola Brio Trio clones/homages are much more efficient.
Passive Crossovers, Capacitor and Coil Calculator
You wouldn't want to crossover the speakers this high in almost any situation anyway. Only if you had a dedicated subwoofer able to play up to 200hz. The highest you would want to high-pass in 99.9% of cases would be 80hz. You would then use a subwoofer low-passed to 80hz.
Unless you're trying to improve power handling (get louder), I see absolutely no reason to put a high-pass on the speakers.
A high-pass, as of right now, has been shown by modeling to be absolutely pointless. The TC9FD in the ported enclosure has less power handling then the open baffle TC9FD.
Both drivers run in the proper enclosure with zero high-passing should be enough volume for most people.
Put it like this, my current system Is a 2.3W/channel Decware SE84 UFO SET amplifier. Yes, it's a $1k+ amplifier for 2.3 watts RMS/ channel. I have my amp connected to a DIY stereo MLTL fullrange 10F/8414G-10 ($65 variant of TC9FD). I never go past half way on my volume pot.
These Nola Brio Trio clones/homages are much more efficient.
Last edited:
Why has this thread been forgotten lately? This design is quite interesting...
bensturgeon... any progress?
Couldn't stand still... and since I had a couple of hours today and a new glue gun to try, I came up with a mockup of the Brio. It's not pretty, but it works. I could only make one as I only have 2 TC9s (thanks to the amazing member BYRTT)
It doesn't have a cap to limit the lows on the higher driver, nor does it have a port, the lower driver is in a sealed box.
I combined it with a sub for the lower frequencies. XO at 150Hz.
It has a sweet sound. One of the best monitor I've built. In a proper wood and good looking enclosure, it would surely be quite nice.
Do I think it could beat big towers or big full range setups? eh.... no. To my ears, there's something about using big drivers that gives more presence.. unless you're using 25 of those TC9 in towering towers ala wesayso. But having now combined 2 TC9s, I believe that 25 of them with DSP must sound incredible.
Anyway, back to the Brio styled enclosure.... they are sure nice for a small to medium sized room. I think they give a very good experience for the size and for the price of 4 TC9 drivers.
If anyone wants some measurements, just ask... what do you want to see?
PS. I think I will run with this and put it on steroids and go with an 8" sub under and an 8" fullrange on top....
bensturgeon... any progress?
Couldn't stand still... and since I had a couple of hours today and a new glue gun to try, I came up with a mockup of the Brio. It's not pretty, but it works. I could only make one as I only have 2 TC9s (thanks to the amazing member BYRTT)
It doesn't have a cap to limit the lows on the higher driver, nor does it have a port, the lower driver is in a sealed box.
I combined it with a sub for the lower frequencies. XO at 150Hz.
It has a sweet sound. One of the best monitor I've built. In a proper wood and good looking enclosure, it would surely be quite nice.
Do I think it could beat big towers or big full range setups? eh.... no. To my ears, there's something about using big drivers that gives more presence.. unless you're using 25 of those TC9 in towering towers ala wesayso. But having now combined 2 TC9s, I believe that 25 of them with DSP must sound incredible.
Anyway, back to the Brio styled enclosure.... they are sure nice for a small to medium sized room. I think they give a very good experience for the size and for the price of 4 TC9 drivers.
If anyone wants some measurements, just ask... what do you want to see?
PS. I think I will run with this and put it on steroids and go with an 8" sub under and an 8" fullrange on top....
Attachments
Can you measure that top end driver playing by itself? Just to figure out the reason for that cap.
It would help to see the bottom one too and their combined result.
Probably. To contradict someone earlier in the thread, the OB driver will need a highpass, as it will bottom out before the ported driver does. Cabinets add resistance to cone motion, OBs do not.
I have the measurement gear to try this out with a pair of Fostex FE126eNs (full P10 treatment), so might do in the coming weeks. Stay tuned.
Chris
Nice work Perceval! Find a 4.7uF to 10uF cap and try it out. It limits excursion so distortion will go down a lot. That allows much higher SPL levels and still sounds clean. Without the high pass limiter distortion is in tens of percent below 150Hz at anything above 5watts.
Alright, I'll put that on my list of things to do...
Find what kind of interaction goes when an OB driver is added to a sealed driver.
Hey All, I started this thread and think its so amazing the amount of discussion and ideas flying around. I have ordered my drivers, some basic 18 gauge wire for internal wiring, binding posts, port tubes, stuffing/insulation. I also bought some maple and had it cut to size for me.. Just waiting for everything to arrive at this point. As I have never really been handy at anything I continue to need direction on a couple of points.
1. What frequencies would be filtered out using the 4.7uF to 10uF caps??
2. Does the cap just get soldered in line with the positive wire lead going to the upper driver?
3. Are there huge differences in terms of quality for the Caps?? Which brands would you recommend?
Thanks all!!! Really appreciate all the advice and direction!!
Full disclosure - I'm not a crossover guy - but I've read that a good conservative crossover point is 18db down at fs. The TC9 fs is 125hz so 1000hz would be the target for a first order high pass with a single cap. That would be about 20uf. I would not use an electrolytic. Note that this rule was established to prevent tweeter burnout and since we're not talking about a tweeter here it may not apply.
Ben,
You may want to check out caintuck audio. He's designed a small baffle "lowboy" open baffle speaker using the wild burro audio drivers. The gentleman who runs the company, Randy, is a great person. Randy provides flat pack kits in various hardwoods and plywoods, as well as complete speakers.
Caintuck Audio Loudspeakers
Steve over at Decware was impressed enough to sell them through his website.
DECWARE Caintuck Audio Open Baffle Loudspeaker
You may want to check out caintuck audio. He's designed a small baffle "lowboy" open baffle speaker using the wild burro audio drivers. The gentleman who runs the company, Randy, is a great person. Randy provides flat pack kits in various hardwoods and plywoods, as well as complete speakers.
Caintuck Audio Loudspeakers
Steve over at Decware was impressed enough to sell them through his website.
DECWARE Caintuck Audio Open Baffle Loudspeaker