Well, I hope both situations will be resolved shortly!
Thankfully the wife agreed to buy me 4 TC9FD's as an early Christmas present.
Nice!
I'll look up the info about the summing of lower frequencies...
I could only hope. All the work he has put into those arrays is nothing short of phenomenal including all the jriver/dsp that he's implemented. Way beyond my expertise.
Hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Wes
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And Happy Thanksgiving to all of our US friends!
May it be filled with joy and family!
Just spent some time reading the reviews on that plate amp... there is a worrying number of reviews that complain about quality control and product life expectancy.
Lots of posts about badly fitting parts, like the power cable, and many people having their amp fail after 1 or 2 years.
Not the kind of amp I would like to have in my $3,500 system!
May it be filled with joy and family!
BTW, looks like you can get the plate amp at PE too
Dayton Audio SPA250 250 Watt Subwoofer Plate Amplifier
Just spent some time reading the reviews on that plate amp... there is a worrying number of reviews that complain about quality control and product life expectancy.
Lots of posts about badly fitting parts, like the power cable, and many people having their amp fail after 1 or 2 years.
Not the kind of amp I would like to have in my $3,500 system!
I think I am going to step up this idea and use a few drivers I have in boxes waiting for my next project.
Just for fun....
I'll try this: a W8-1363sbf in a sealed (or maybe ported) enclosure, with the W8-1772 mounted onto an open baffle, sitting on top of the bass box. Xover somewhere along 500Hz.
Should be a fun thing to try, and a great way to break in the drivers along the way!
Just for fun....
I'll try this: a W8-1363sbf in a sealed (or maybe ported) enclosure, with the W8-1772 mounted onto an open baffle, sitting on top of the bass box. Xover somewhere along 500Hz.
Should be a fun thing to try, and a great way to break in the drivers along the way!
I'd speculate that they recommend that location to achieve the smoothest response. Here's why:
The Alon speaker use asymmetrical crossover slopes. I'd speculate that there's an overlap between the ported midbass and the ported sub. Due to these factors, there's going to be interference between the midbass and the sub. That interference can be constructive or destructive. IE, the interference can create a peak or a dip where the two drivers overlap. Or if you get the phase JUST RIGHT it will sum flat.
180hz is two meters long.
So I'd speculate that moving the sub backwards by two feet accomplishes that goal of getting the sub in phase with the midbass. Moving the sub by nineteen inches introduces ninety degrees of phase shift at 180 degrees.
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Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Fantastic analysis Patrick!
Speaking of Dayton products- I've purchased two of their amps, both had issues large enough from the factory that they were unusable. First Amp I sent back for testing, and they sent it back saying it was fine. It had a notable channel balance issue. The second amp's volume pot would hiss in any position but the beginning and end. Not buying Dayton products anymore.
Fantastic analysis Patrick!
Speaking of Dayton products- I've purchased two of their amps, both had issues large enough from the factory that they were unusable. First Amp I sent back for testing, and they sent it back saying it was fine. It had a notable channel balance issue. The second amp's volume pot would hiss in any position but the beginning and end. Not buying Dayton products anymore.
Was just reading through and thought I should correct this.
Foamboard and fiberglass resin (polyester resin) don't really work well together - the resin will dissolve the foam after it soaks through the thin paper veneer. The cut ends with exposed foam are particularly vulnerable.
Having done some work lately with both of these materials, it can be done but takes some extra work - cover up all the exposed foam edges with something (I tried what I call bristol board or poster board) and then seal all the paper surfaces of the foamboard with something that won't affect the foam - I used varnish, 2 coats. Even better, try glueing a panel of bristol board to each side of the foamboard before assembling your project - it adds a remarkable degree of stiffness and strength to the naked foamboard. Both sides though as only doing 1 side will just result in some very aggravating warping. A sealer like varnish is still required.
I asked my Dad about this. He has been a DIY R/C plane hobbiest my entire life. He said that regular fiberglass/poly resin will eat foam, but epoxy will not.
Honestly I didn't know fiberglass resin wasn't epoxy. I always thought that they were the same thing! Probably because my dad used it so much, lol.
Just tried the TC9 open baffle trick with my W8-1772 boxes. I had to control volume on both, as there's quite the big gap in efficiencies between the two.
The effect was quite subtle, not as pronounced as with the TABAQs, which tells me that the 1772s are pretty good at imaging in 3D.
Appreciating my 1772s even more!
The effect was quite subtle, not as pronounced as with the TABAQs, which tells me that the 1772s are pretty good at imaging in 3D.
Appreciating my 1772s even more!
Just tried the TC9 open baffle trick with my W8-1772 boxes. I had to control volume on both, as there's quite the big gap in efficiencies between the two.
The effect was quite subtle, not as pronounced as with the TABAQs, which tells me that the 1772s are pretty good at imaging in 3D.
Appreciating my 1772s even more!
This could mean the W8 (being a large driver) is already directional from the get go.
The added TC9 on the TABAQs could introduce some kind of cardioid action in that setup which makes that speaker combination more directional than without the add on...
I hope someone builds a clone and shows some measurements....
Yeah he's a smart designer. Instead of correcting the phase difference in the crossover, which would have added $40-$60 to the loudspeaker, he just has you move the satellites away from the wall... Which you should do anyways.
Clever!
I've also gushed about how Synergy horns have this 'trick' where the wavefront is in phase, but the sound radiates from three distinct depths. By varying the depths, it's hard to pinpoint where the soundstage begins and ends. The Brio Trios may be doing something similar. (It definitely sounded like that.)
Right now I'm listening to my Vandersteens, which are very nice, but the soundstage is wide but not deep. You can definitely perceive that the sound is emanating from the loudspeaker, particularly when it comes to the Z axis. Synergy Horns and Brio Trios don't do this, the depth is nebulous.
True, but he is also using that Parts Express plate amp which has a phase inverting switch as well...
I've added some sims and analysis to the original thread that I posted about this speaker, from nine months ago.
The data is here: If You Want to Try Cardioids - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
The data is here: If You Want to Try Cardioids - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
Thanks for the updates Patrick!
Just to update everyone, I have 4 TC9FD's on order. Unfortunately I have no way to measure though.
I also noticed a smooth increase in FR from 1khz to 160hz by modeling in WinIsd. WinIsd predicts a 2dB gain (from 1khz as reference) at the peak of 160hz. I think this might work as a natural baffle step compensation.
f3 is 52hz in the same enclosure.
I plan on building it in a MLTL setup with a rear firing port located near the floor to increase bass output due to boundary gain. Hopefully the MLTL configuration will gain me a little lower f3 aswell.
Just to update everyone, I have 4 TC9FD's on order. Unfortunately I have no way to measure though.
I also noticed a smooth increase in FR from 1khz to 160hz by modeling in WinIsd. WinIsd predicts a 2dB gain (from 1khz as reference) at the peak of 160hz. I think this might work as a natural baffle step compensation.
f3 is 52hz in the same enclosure.
I plan on building it in a MLTL setup with a rear firing port located near the floor to increase bass output due to boundary gain. Hopefully the MLTL configuration will gain me a little lower f3 aswell.
The Nola Specs indicate that the speaker's nominal impedance is 8 ohms. How is this possible if he is using the TC9FD as these are rated at 8 ohms yielding either 16 ohms (in series) or 4 ohms (in parallel). Is there a benefit to keeping this configuration at 8 ohms vs. 4 ohms.. Is it even possible to keep the impedance at 8 ohms using the TC9FD??
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
He might be using the 16 ohm Vifa TC9 variant...
TC9FD-05-16
Or gone the opposite way and used the 4 ohm:
Vifa TC9FD-18-04
Source: http://www.speakerbits.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=1136&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=146
They are not that well known, might not even be available to the public but at one point they did exist. They are about as unknown as the Kevlar variants of this same driver. A black Kevlar coned Vifa, not the well known white fibreglass ones.
TC9FD-05-16
Or gone the opposite way and used the 4 ohm:
Vifa TC9FD-18-04
Source: http://www.speakerbits.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=1136&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=146
They are not that well known, might not even be available to the public but at one point they did exist. They are about as unknown as the Kevlar variants of this same driver. A black Kevlar coned Vifa, not the well known white fibreglass ones.
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