Holy Guacamoly!
What did I just do?
Inspired by the renewed interest in this thread, I took my little clone I made a while back.
I decided to try all sorts of setup and see where that brings me.
At the moment, the bottom driver is sealed, I will need to add a port to bring it up to about 80Hz, I believe...
Now, here's the run down.
I tried the 2 drivers in phase, without a cap (I only had a 22uf) on the top one.
Then, 2 drivers in phase with the cap on the top one.
For fun, I tried to wire the drivers out of phase, no cap.
And finally again out of phase, with the cap.
And here is the result of that last test. My jaw dropped. It sounds so natural, it's crazy.
So, all of you out there, give it a shot. Invert the wires on the top driver.
Now, I'll add a port and try to get f3 a little lower to easily match it up with a sub. I already have the tube, I just need to cut a hole in the back when I have some more time to play.
What did I just do?
Inspired by the renewed interest in this thread, I took my little clone I made a while back.
I decided to try all sorts of setup and see where that brings me.
At the moment, the bottom driver is sealed, I will need to add a port to bring it up to about 80Hz, I believe...
Now, here's the run down.
I tried the 2 drivers in phase, without a cap (I only had a 22uf) on the top one.
Then, 2 drivers in phase with the cap on the top one.
For fun, I tried to wire the drivers out of phase, no cap.
And finally again out of phase, with the cap.
And here is the result of that last test. My jaw dropped. It sounds so natural, it's crazy.
So, all of you out there, give it a shot. Invert the wires on the top driver.
Now, I'll add a port and try to get f3 a little lower to easily match it up with a sub. I already have the tube, I just need to cut a hole in the back when I have some more time to play.
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Looks very nice! I think what might be happening is that the inversion took care of the baffle step by canceling some of the top end. Have you tried both sealed and in phase with a BSC? Should be flat like that as TC9 is naturally flat. Or perhaps both open baffle and BSC.
Here is dual TC9FD in sealed Nautaloss. No BSC or filter of any kind.
Looking at my response vs yours, I suspect that the rise above 1k on mine is what is cancelled by your inversion of the OB. 22uF in 8ohms impedance is 900Hz 1st order high pass filter.
Here is dual TC9FD in sealed Nautaloss. No BSC or filter of any kind.
Looking at my response vs yours, I suspect that the rise above 1k on mine is what is cancelled by your inversion of the OB. 22uF in 8ohms impedance is 900Hz 1st order high pass filter.
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I didn't try running dual sealed,
but I did give a shot to dual drivers on OB.
That wasn't so nice as the back wave would induce ever more cancellations. That baffle was about 30cm x 30cm.
I like the idea of running these boxes without a BSC, especially since the TC9 is not that efficient to start with. Running them out of phase and the cap on the top one does the whole BSC thing acoustically without any other electric signal alteration. Kinda cool!
but I did give a shot to dual drivers on OB.
That wasn't so nice as the back wave would induce ever more cancellations. That baffle was about 30cm x 30cm.
I like the idea of running these boxes without a BSC, especially since the TC9 is not that efficient to start with. Running them out of phase and the cap on the top one does the whole BSC thing acoustically without any other electric signal alteration. Kinda cool!
How wide are those boxes you built? They look wider than the ones I built which could be an illusion, I suppose. Also, the ones I built have the drivers flush and are well rounded over. I have no idea what effect this has on BS, but in these instances, I like to consider all the details as I try to learn about these things.
And, doesn't wiring two 8 ohm speakers in series result in a 16 ohm? Wouldn't you have to use the 4 ohm (TC9FD00-04) version to make it an 8 ohm system?
Reason I ask this is I am not finding any shortfalls or audible room for improvement. The EQ I have applied to these is real close to what I use on just about every speaker I have in this room.
I did try switching, one, to play against each other and then both and I was not fond of the results. The clear highs were muted even with EQ. Switched it back and it's fine again.
baffle is about 22cm (8 1/2").
It was a quick build using blue foam boards and yes, I didn't bother trying to mount them flush. Yes, I'm sure it would help a little there.
My understanding is when you introduce a XO into the mix, each driver behaves as a single, and two 8 Ohms drivers retain 8 Ohms overall. For confirmation, I ran DATS on them, and yes, they were still at 6.8 Ohms total, but I noticed Qts has increased to 1.2
I'll try measuring them in another room to test
It was a quick build using blue foam boards and yes, I didn't bother trying to mount them flush. Yes, I'm sure it would help a little there.
My understanding is when you introduce a XO into the mix, each driver behaves as a single, and two 8 Ohms drivers retain 8 Ohms overall. For confirmation, I ran DATS on them, and yes, they were still at 6.8 Ohms total, but I noticed Qts has increased to 1.2
I'll try measuring them in another room to test
Had no time to set up again, but this afternoon, I cut the hole and installed the port. 1" diameter, 2" long.
There's a little improvement when the speakers are 2m from the back wall, but much better when they are 45cm away from the back wall. As good as any small bookshelf speakers out there, and stil, a nice flattish FR.
This room picks up bass like crazy. It's because it's small and there are bass traps in all 4 corners of the room, so a lot less cancellations due to bounce. It's not thumping like the TABAQs, but it's believable.
Next step, build a second one and listen in stereo! It's all been mono so far.
There's a little improvement when the speakers are 2m from the back wall, but much better when they are 45cm away from the back wall. As good as any small bookshelf speakers out there, and stil, a nice flattish FR.
This room picks up bass like crazy. It's because it's small and there are bass traps in all 4 corners of the room, so a lot less cancellations due to bounce. It's not thumping like the TABAQs, but it's believable.
Next step, build a second one and listen in stereo! It's all been mono so far.
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I guess I need to start a scott joplin type campaign on what to call the wall behind the speakers. Half call it the front wall and the other half call it the back wall. I'm confused enough already!
Mine are 5.5"W with continuous round-overs. I have the driver mounted in the sealed portion higher towards the roof of the sealed box, and the port, as far onto the bottom away from the driver as possible but not quite touching the bottom panel.
Now granted, I cannot take measurements, but there is nothing audibly missing from the music I am familiar with, and no portion of the mix more or less proud than the other with regard to balance and they are neither warm, or bright. The subwoofer is blended as such, that you would swear the bass is coming from the tiny speakers, or that the rest of the frequencies come from the subwoofer, depending on what you are focusing on. The only performance change is that these speakers open up more at mid volume. Weirder yet is, if you go right up to the drivers, they are relatively quiet point blank, and louder starting at about a meter away. I imagine this is due in part to the dipole effect and the port effect with room effect merging.
I have these speakers mounted on stands, approx. 40cm from the wall behind them, and about a meter from the side walls.
Like most good speakers, they are a bit revealing with recording quality, except perhaps with near field use at lower SPL being a bit more forgiving in that regard.
Oops, I "guesstimated" the dimensions last time as I wasn't near the speaker. It's actually 7" wide baffle.
I finally built a second unit, and brought them downstairs to the big room. It is not a perfect room, with room nodes and all, but I like it better than being crammed into a small room.
Been listening to these little Brio clones and I must say.... they are fantastic.
For the price of 4 little TC9 drivers, they deliver.
The most impressive is the imaging. This room usually needs some DRC correction to help with imaging. Not with these two little units (plus, I haven't had time to do any DRC). Right from the go, sound was way bigger than the physical cabinets. And after 3 little cuts to deal with room nodes, and add a 1.5dB at 3kHz, just because I like it and makes voices cut through the mix like a razor, it was just crazy good.
In the big room, they do need sub help. So, I took a couple of minutes to adjust levels a bit, and without any fuss, it blended well enough for a first try.
I spent the next couple of hours just going through my music library. Even got some chills on a couple of songs.... that was cool!
I am still running with drivers out of phase.
Now ... I'm thinking of a design where I flip the Nola clones upside down, and put an 8" woofer (sub) under each.
But, for a first try and listen, I am grinning a lot from these two little units.
This is before I added the 3kHz boost, as you can see, it needed it anyway....
I finally built a second unit, and brought them downstairs to the big room. It is not a perfect room, with room nodes and all, but I like it better than being crammed into a small room.
Been listening to these little Brio clones and I must say.... they are fantastic.
For the price of 4 little TC9 drivers, they deliver.
The most impressive is the imaging. This room usually needs some DRC correction to help with imaging. Not with these two little units (plus, I haven't had time to do any DRC). Right from the go, sound was way bigger than the physical cabinets. And after 3 little cuts to deal with room nodes, and add a 1.5dB at 3kHz, just because I like it and makes voices cut through the mix like a razor, it was just crazy good.
In the big room, they do need sub help. So, I took a couple of minutes to adjust levels a bit, and without any fuss, it blended well enough for a first try.
I spent the next couple of hours just going through my music library. Even got some chills on a couple of songs.... that was cool!
I am still running with drivers out of phase.
Now ... I'm thinking of a design where I flip the Nola clones upside down, and put an 8" woofer (sub) under each.
But, for a first try and listen, I am grinning a lot from these two little units.
This is before I added the 3kHz boost, as you can see, it needed it anyway....
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My setup is similar to yours but I'm using a CSS WR125 on the bottom. It was really intended as a temp setup to get an idea how the Brios worked, but it's worked so well I just left it. I've been trying to decide whether I do what you're suggesting, with a different bass driver, or use a single TC9 in a 2 way/FAST/WAW/Whatever we're calling it.
Maybe I'll build both.
Maybe I'll build both.
I have this idea of taking the Brio, inverting it, and putting a small subwoofer underneath.
Kinda like this, but as one unit, one cabinet.
What's the idea behind inverting the Brio? Won't that cause a loss in some of its soundstage?
Mike
Why would they lose soundstage?
Because the OB one will be sandwiched in the middle?
Remember, the Brio have a "roof" on top, so, they are only opened to the sides and back.
I'll tell you later.
Yes, you move the cap and connections. The cap has to be in the signal path going to the driver, you just wire it to the other tab.
Wow, those little Brios must look lost on top of 15" H frames!
I have a couple of 15" here as well, but didn't dare go so big. I will try with the W8-1363sbf I have here first.
That would be one way to go...
If it were me, trying to blend the Brio clones, I'd get a Dayton sub amp (or something similar) , even better getting two, and fill in the low end with an 8" to 12" sub. Sealed or ported. You're even in TL territory as I have my subs set for 80Hz XO using my Brio clones, anything higher would mess up the frequency curve.
If it were me, trying to blend the Brio clones, I'd get a Dayton sub amp (or something similar) , even better getting two, and fill in the low end with an 8" to 12" sub. Sealed or ported. You're even in TL territory as I have my subs set for 80Hz XO using my Brio clones, anything higher would mess up the frequency curve.
Hi there!
When you made the gap for the TC9 to fit flush, did you just wing it by hand with a router bit?
When you made the gap for the TC9 to fit flush, did you just wing it by hand with a router bit?
I have so far made the open section 'somewhat' smaller, relative to the sealed section. I also put a 45 deg bevel on the back side of the drivers being I used the crap 17 something mm 'birch' plywood. Home Depot's broke me from buying anymore plywood from them. I knew better. It was convenient and on the way home from work so I took a chance. Had to repair large voids on some of the edges with cedar shims and glue before I could even proceed. The face veneers are ridiculously thin as well. I am used to thin face veneers on marine ply, but this is borderline paper. I just left enough space in the top with a little more than enough room for the wire connections. Have no idea if this will make a difference.
Also didn't center the drivers in their spaces. Favored the slanted ceiling of the box with lower driver with the flat edge of the driver frame about .75" below it. Top driver is more centered in it's space.
Not exactly. I routed the 3" hole for the driver first, set the driver in and then scribed carefully around it repeatedly with a sharp utility blade and then freehanded to that with a router bit. Then shaved it to fit with an exacto chisel.
I am still listening to these speakers daily. I should probably take them down and give them a proper paint job. I still have the wires out thru the ports just twisted together like some kind of slob.
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