I'd think Julian would be 
then he'd look at his AP screen and think "hmm....I wonder what I can do to increase 2nd harmonic distortion without disturbing 4th?" .......(tinker, tinker, tinker) ....."Aha, now there's 50% more but 4th stays down at 0.0015%. OK! Now for the listening test....... Yep that's it, guys. 50% of 0.01% is 0.005% and PRaT is so-o-o much better... That's a take and its going into all new models!" 
then he'd look at his AP screen and think "hmm....I wonder what I can do to increase 2nd harmonic distortion without disturbing 4th?" .......(tinker, tinker, tinker) ....."Aha, now there's 50% more but 4th stays down at 0.0015%. OK! Now for the listening test....... Yep that's it, guys. 50% of 0.01% is 0.005% and PRaT is so-o-o much better... That's a take and its going into all new models!" 
Yep, but via Forum its nearly impossible, no-one knows how my or urs "system" sounds like.
Illustration is the way to go.
But you know guys, its all about when speaker sings like there is no "tommorow". You get a feeling that tweeter is doing all the job, the unity! I think its than possible to detect, if there is a virgin singing or not.
And this circuit represents unity ! I dont know where this circuit is "originated" from... tesla ?
From book ? Maybe, but it could have been on some papers before the circuit found itself in the book.....
I think, if we dont learn this circuit behaviour from point A to point B, we wont get anywhere in this forum, sadly.
Good seeds only.
Quite so. And I think you are bat-**** crazy enough to avoid getting your cerebral tires stuck in the deep ruts of the diyaudio.com record.
I believe an AP audio analyser is only a fancy audio test machine that has many modes for displaying distortion - i.e. its analysis. People run scared of this machine or sneer at it because it presents so many hard facts that can wrongly lead to disappointment in our less-than-perfect audio gear. However, nobody asked whether the difference between say, 0.1% and 0.0001% THD at 5kHz from your power amp would make any difference to what you hear at home.AP may well have set audio back decades.
You guys need to change your Kool-Aid.
It's also amusing that some respected voices here at the forum, are also advocates of a few designs and commercial products that by happenstance or intent, take an opposite tack on distortion. Familiar examples of these might be JLH's 10-15W class A design and Jean Hiraga's "le monstre". How can these simple devices be hailed as sounding wonderful?
I'm quite certain it's the knee-jerk conclusions about distortion that irritate people about THD analysis and analysers generally - particularly the big spenders when they become aware that their megabuck system is riddled with distortion products that show up as "awful" on an AP or any other analyser, for that matter. Nobody would like being told that their expensive car, HT system or speakers are technically speaking, a POS - would they?
Whether your amplifier sounds wonderful or not, this test equipment is primarily for knowing what's going on electrically, so the "niceness" meters and graphs will be missing. I guess the designers at AP are running scared of something too. Could it be subjectivism?
Absolutely. Don't just follow the guys who think with their laptop and refer to college texts for circuit ideas. The great designers may have begun that way but probably changed their plans when they found that following the crowd just made them a part of it.
JV taught himself, began with textbook design(s) but made a few changes that were naughty but nice-sounding. If you were looking for a university degree or the approval of your peers, you would know better than to try that. If you were looking to make money, you might just do it anyway
Without the constraint of achieving minimal distortion though, sound quality or perceived audio doesn't necessarily get worse. It can sound better too. That's why people buy or copy some very expensive products with rather poor specs. The re-introduction of tube amplifiers is an extreme example of the same pursuit.
If you want to follow some more un-holy design ideas and learn some more about great sound, a visit to the Pass Labs forum and at least an overview of his standard DIY designs in the "First Watt" paper, is a must. It's a different world of DIY. Not all is what you expect to find at audio forums either. The secrets are often hidden in the topology and component values but much is explained or at least hinted in Nelson's comments.
NP is a commercial high end designer-manufacturer in his own right. He specialises in hot class A designs and has his own "secret sauce" ideas to protect so he doesn't give everything away but he's been generous with what he does share with the DIY community. FIRST WATT
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Have you been drinking that cheap wine again?JV taught himself, began with textbook design(s) but made a few changes that were naughty but nice-sounding. If you were looking for a university degree or the approval of your peers, you would know better than to try that. If you were looking to make money, you might just do it anyway
As measured how?
Pass has never made the best sounding amplifiers. He specializes in minimal feedback, obsessively symmetrical, mosfet room heaters. Greta wouldn’t approve. Marketing sells audio. Talismanic secrets sells audio. In this forum, he encourages amateur participation through tinkering with simple, idiosyncratic circuits, which is great. The whimsical Beast With a Thousand JFETs is reminiscent of Rowland Emett, whose creations I adore. It’s not really engineering education, though.
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Original author?
I believe AP was started by a Hewlett-Packard engineer using a spectrum analyzer optimized for audio frequency measurements.
The trouble is that AP has created a “gold standard” objective measurement that is at odds with “golden ear” observational measurements. The AP measurement is not fit for purpose (“Precision” is only promised) but ends up driving design choices and biasing reviews: “what gets measured gets managed”.
hmmm have any of you guys thought why diyaudio exists ?
Will there be a time, were we all gather our knowledge and concentrate this stuff "all forum knowledge" at, 1, perfect, amplifier.
Without a doubt, this can be possible... and i think its the only way to end this war with multi-thousand designs.
What is The purpose of "forums", its to learn, gather and spit knowledge. I feel like we have accomplished that long ago, its just we need some action.
We have to process, compare it and then decide = freedom.
If we do that, we can move on, designing something else...
EDIT: Diyaudio community should rent a place somewhere in center of continent, eurasia, so we all can contribute in real time
EDIT: by 1 perfect it could mean 1 whole of amplifier series with different tasty harmonics. Tasty like chicken, all that body needs.
Will there be a time, were we all gather our knowledge and concentrate this stuff "all forum knowledge" at, 1, perfect, amplifier.
Without a doubt, this can be possible... and i think its the only way to end this war with multi-thousand designs.
What is The purpose of "forums", its to learn, gather and spit knowledge. I feel like we have accomplished that long ago, its just we need some action.
We have to process, compare it and then decide = freedom.
If we do that, we can move on, designing something else...
EDIT: Diyaudio community should rent a place somewhere in center of continent, eurasia, so we all can contribute in real time
EDIT: by 1 perfect it could mean 1 whole of amplifier series with different tasty harmonics. Tasty like chicken, all that body needs.
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I doubt there will ever be a single, perfect amplifier - not because it can't be done but because people want to express themselves in individual ways, be recognized for their achievements and profit from them. That sounds good so far, if it weren't for the 1,001 other people with exactly the same goal but a high likelihood of coming up with quite different solutions.
One more difficulty: Once you have built that perfect amplifier, what are you going to move on to? Multi-flavoured versions of the same? Surely if you have the perfect amp, it could only have 1 flavour or none at all.
One more difficulty: Once you have built that perfect amplifier, what are you going to move on to? Multi-flavoured versions of the same? Surely if you have the perfect amp, it could only have 1 flavour or none at all.
No cheap wine but I do need a caffeine fix to keep me awake in this thread.
I usually rely on a Quantasylum QA400 - a soundcard test system and measuring software that at least agrees with the last amp. calibration. There were threads here when it was introduced but I think it's updated to QA402 model now.
I also read a lot of carping here about making distortion measurements. I can understand that because it can be expensive to set up, let alone calibrate even simple systems if you need to exchange data. Remaining ignorant though, is no solution and relying on your ears to tell you whether something is good, better, best is not only a waste of time but will soon drive you crazy.
NP may not offer the best DIY sound imaginable in his designs but I believe the help and forum support satisfies more readers and listeners than those of us that struggle to get enjoyment from allegedly ultra low distortion types, whether class A or AB. I think rensli will get a buzz from building and listening to one of Nelson's better rated DIY models. The Naim clone thing has taken up many, many hours and run its course for the time being. You can always pick up where you left off if that's what you prefer but now its time to try something completely different, quite a bit of fun and
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I had build my first amp. with 2n3055 and 12volts transformer, perhaps 30 more years ego. I was using big caps as much as 1000uf. It was perfect FM radio receiver. I was listening taxi drivers talk.
Somewhere in the forum, were talking about diode noise (as radio transmitter), I remember my amplifier
Somewhere in the forum, were talking about diode noise (as radio transmitter), I remember my amplifier
Its not just 1 component.
Hmm, its a "combined" noise, when diodes, capacitors and resistor dont meet an "alignment" in a operating condition over a wide range of temperature.
It means, to get clean "harmonics" or "low distortion" one must meet some "alignment, or how to say, relationship" between components.
There are no rules in itself, but the "tighter" the alignment, the cleaner, more pleasant harmonics are possible. You can apply this to any amplifier circuit out there, but NAIM is the most transparent, nothing can beat it, it is the CORE, a mother of all amplifiers!
3, its all about "3".... 3 operating conditions, its the simplest circuit there, just needs some skills to get it operating correctly.
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Reduced distortion is a sound effect.
That’s a definition I’ve not heard before.
Ha ha. Well most of it.
Everything has some effect. The genius lies firstly in identifying the most important effects and secondly in designing a system to address them. This is not easy at all. The lazy approach is to follow the herd’s views on what’s important.
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Where does "reduced distortion" come into to it? If anything, this is more a matter of increasing distortion at some threshold level, according to my observations.
There were certainly some respectable distortion analyzers by 1971 but do you really think they were ever used in the early development of the NAP series amplifiers and preamps? We're talking about an individual working at home in shared accommodation, not a well paid EE with a fully equipped electronics lab. and associated support network. That appears to have happened later, Perhaps as a necessity for export compliance, consistency and so on.
Some off-topic and political posts have been deleted. Please take care of your threads, or they may get closed.