No worries, Tom - I'm approaching the big 60 myself and becoming confused sure is getting easier! Yes, Dario is a good man.
LM318M
I'm trying to order all the remaining parts I need from one supplier (Digikey). They have everything except for the LM318M manufactured by Nat Semi - they have the LM318M manufactured by Texas: LM318M
Is this OK to use, rather than the Nat semi part specified in the BOM?
Reason I ask is that Andypairo wrote:
"My_Ref relies on a close integration of the devices used, and the techniques employed to achieve its permformance are closely realted to the internal structure of the components, so closely that Mauro even specifies the brand (National) of the LM318 (because of different compensation masks used by other manufacturers)."
I'm trying to order all the remaining parts I need from one supplier (Digikey). They have everything except for the LM318M manufactured by Nat Semi - they have the LM318M manufactured by Texas: LM318M
Is this OK to use, rather than the Nat semi part specified in the BOM?
Reason I ask is that Andypairo wrote:
"My_Ref relies on a close integration of the devices used, and the techniques employed to achieve its permformance are closely realted to the internal structure of the components, so closely that Mauro even specifies the brand (National) of the LM318 (because of different compensation masks used by other manufacturers)."
Texas Instruments bought National Semiconductors some years ago.
You can distinguish ex-NatSemi parts from Texas ones by codes.
LM318M/NOPB is the ex-NatSemi part, the Texas one code is LM318D.
So the one you linked should be the right one.
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I don't know if eBay is a good source or if it is fake ?
NEW 30G Thermal Grease Paste Compound PC CPU Heatsink Tube | eBay
NEW 30G Thermal Grease Paste Compound PC CPU Heatsink Tube | eBay
I can't see any reason to make fake thermal compound... it costs nothing even locally...
Fifth run
I've started a new GB for FE boards:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/262319-my_ref-fremen-edition-gb-fifth-run.html#post4065553
I've started a new GB for FE boards:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/262319-my_ref-fremen-edition-gb-fifth-run.html#post4065553
Hello Tom
I might have missed it but did you get round to trying the naked Z-foils at R10 and comparing them to the caddocks?
I might have missed it but did you get round to trying the naked Z-foils at R10 and comparing them to the caddocks?
Yes, but perhaps I didn't report clearly enough. The pair of amps I built for use with my friend's Eggleston speakers have the naked Z-foil Vishay's at R10. I did not compare them directly to the Caddocks in my amps, but my overall impression is that they are similar, and both sound less colored to me than the Riken. I do not hear any negative effects from either, other than superior clarity and refinement. The Z-foil may be the slightest bit smoother and open, hard to say.
I'm giving up experimentation with different parts. I think I have achieved all I am able to hear in terms of refinement and detail. I can hardly stand to listen to other stereo's because they pretty much sound like crap compared to mine. I am not bragging; I'm simply trying to put in perspective what level of fidelity my system provides. I know there are far better, but I'll probably never hear them and couldn't possibly afford them anyway. Best system I've heard lately is the very respectable Madison Symphony. Spectacular concert last weekend: Strauss's Also sprach Zarathustra (you know, "2001" theme), some modern thing by Frank Martin which was not bad, and Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3, played for the 10th anniversary of our 200 million dollar concert hall on the amazing (another $3 mil, it weighs 174 tons!) Klais pipe organ. My seat was front row center in the third balcony. Magnificent. Thirty-six bucks much better spent on a ticket than capacitors!
For me, there are other ways to spend time and money than on another expensive part. I am now putting what little I can afford into more software, buying CD's cheap. Silly people are rushing to give them away because they're outdated, you know. There is so much music I have yet to hear through my excellent little amplifiers.
You guys carry on, and I'll still enjoy reading about your adventures. If someone proclaims a new part is an absolute killer, I would consider giving it a try. Otherwise, no more straining to hear those little differences, even though they can add up to big improvements overall. I'm looking at the big picture now instead of individual brush strokes.
Peace,
Tom E
I'm giving up experimentation with different parts. I think I have achieved all I am able to hear in terms of refinement and detail. I can hardly stand to listen to other stereo's because they pretty much sound like crap compared to mine. I am not bragging; I'm simply trying to put in perspective what level of fidelity my system provides. I know there are far better, but I'll probably never hear them and couldn't possibly afford them anyway. Best system I've heard lately is the very respectable Madison Symphony. Spectacular concert last weekend: Strauss's Also sprach Zarathustra (you know, "2001" theme), some modern thing by Frank Martin which was not bad, and Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3, played for the 10th anniversary of our 200 million dollar concert hall on the amazing (another $3 mil, it weighs 174 tons!) Klais pipe organ. My seat was front row center in the third balcony. Magnificent. Thirty-six bucks much better spent on a ticket than capacitors!
For me, there are other ways to spend time and money than on another expensive part. I am now putting what little I can afford into more software, buying CD's cheap. Silly people are rushing to give them away because they're outdated, you know. There is so much music I have yet to hear through my excellent little amplifiers.
You guys carry on, and I'll still enjoy reading about your adventures. If someone proclaims a new part is an absolute killer, I would consider giving it a try. Otherwise, no more straining to hear those little differences, even though they can add up to big improvements overall. I'm looking at the big picture now instead of individual brush strokes.
Peace,
Tom E
OK, thanks. I guess knowing when to stop getting that last grain of performance out of the amp is the secret. Great to hear you're sitting back, enjoying the music.
In the last months I'm using naked Vishays in R10 and, so far, they're the most transparent resistors in that position.
They've even more detail, soundstage and they don't suffer from the 'grey' sound and impulsive nature of the Caddocks in that position (IMHO) but the amp with them will sometimes throw at you any defect on the recording.
So if you want the 'ultimate' resistor Vishays are the ones but some could find more enjoyable the Rikens or be perfectly happy with the KOA carbon film in BOM.
They've even more detail, soundstage and they don't suffer from the 'grey' sound and impulsive nature of the Caddocks in that position (IMHO) but the amp with them will sometimes throw at you any defect on the recording.
So if you want the 'ultimate' resistor Vishays are the ones but some could find more enjoyable the Rikens or be perfectly happy with the KOA carbon film in BOM.
Shame on you Tom for reading my mail.
I sent almost the identical message(s) to Jac last week related to some XO stuff. I couldn't be more satisfied with the value/performance attained through use of the FE, as well as Siva's V1.3 with his modules. The only thing that lurks in the back of my mind is the aura of the Evolution possibly being a tad better - but until or unless Mr. P has a change of heart......
Somewhat related and very humorous - Last week I got an announcement of an iPad version of a program called Imaschine. It's a top choice for creating a new popular music style called "Beats". Thought I'd compose a few and send them off to impress my teenage granddaughters with how cool us old folks can still be,
Well, after a long series of YouTube "How-To-Videos", I discovered massive investments in equipment and time in what the proponents call "Music" that may or may not fit that description.
Had to make a hasty retreat to Aaron Copeland's "Music For The Theatre" and some Ellington to regain my balance and sanity.
Think I'll stick with the FE/Sunflower combo augmented with a few visits to the local SBSO and the MJTF and like you, just enjoy the results of all the efforts and successes presented here on the forum.
Great stuff guys
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Dario,
Will the new batch of boards have properly spaced pads for Z-foil/Caddock style resistors at R10? Between my non-critical evaluation and your comments, now you've got me considering buying a pair of Vishay's to replace the Caddocks in my own amps. Nearly irresistible resistors! It's too bad the leads must be deformed in order to fit on the current rev boards. Not sure how much difference that little extra lead length makes.
Bob,
Interesting that we're both backing off amps for a while. You were going pretty crazy there with so many different configurations. Glad you're still trying new things, too. Right now I'm reading a book about 3D printing. Looks incredibly interesting. My mind races with possible applications. Speaker enclosures and composite cones for drivers? Waveguides and horns? So many possibilities for research and experimentation, so easy to implement for anyone with design knowledge, software, and a printer. It makes auditioning capacitors seem limited in comparison. Makes me realize I will probably not live long enough.
Peace,
Tom E
Will the new batch of boards have properly spaced pads for Z-foil/Caddock style resistors at R10? Between my non-critical evaluation and your comments, now you've got me considering buying a pair of Vishay's to replace the Caddocks in my own amps. Nearly irresistible resistors! It's too bad the leads must be deformed in order to fit on the current rev boards. Not sure how much difference that little extra lead length makes.
Bob,
Interesting that we're both backing off amps for a while. You were going pretty crazy there with so many different configurations. Glad you're still trying new things, too. Right now I'm reading a book about 3D printing. Looks incredibly interesting. My mind races with possible applications. Speaker enclosures and composite cones for drivers? Waveguides and horns? So many possibilities for research and experimentation, so easy to implement for anyone with design knowledge, software, and a printer. It makes auditioning capacitors seem limited in comparison. Makes me realize I will probably not live long enough.
Peace,
Tom E
Dario,
I was also thinking about the new boards and wondering if it made sense to try surface mount for R10. The problem is that we need about 400 mW rating for R10 and there aren't a lot of surface mount resistors in that range. I found that Mouser stocks both Panasonic and Vishay Dale, both are thick film, and neither have voltage or current noise specified on their data sheets.
EDIT - Opps. I just checked my math. We don't need 400 mW, more like 1 mW. I had my decimal in the wrong place. That should make nice SMD resistors like Susumu possible, shouldn't it?
Anyway, just a thought. Maybe it will spark some other options for the new boards.
Jac
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Hi Dario,
I've been reading spec sheets again. Have you ever had a chance to compare Susumu RG against the Vishay Naked in the same place in a circuit? From the specs, the Susumu looks very competitive to the Vishay, but I know that specs don't always correlate to how a component sounds.
Jac
I've been reading spec sheets again. Have you ever had a chance to compare Susumu RG against the Vishay Naked in the same place in a circuit? From the specs, the Susumu looks very competitive to the Vishay, but I know that specs don't always correlate to how a component sounds.
Jac
The Susumus sounds pretty similar to naked Vishay, only a bit warmer with slightly less detail.
Surface MOunt Anyone?
Hmmmn. Since the lead spacing for the naked Vishay is 3.8 mm, why not change the lead spacing for R10 to 3.8 mm. That would make the Caddock users bend their leads slightly, but it would also allow using 0805 SMD resistors. For those who want try it, 0805 resistors are much more available than 1206 and there are reasons to like Susumu over Vishay or Panasonic SMD resistors.
I know that current noise isn't the only spec to consider, nor is it always an indication of sound quality, but consider this;
Current Noise Constant (smaller is better)
Vishay TNP series SMD thin film resistor (0805 and 1206) = 4e-8 uV/V
Vishay VAR naked film resistor = 1e-8 uV/V
Susumu RG SMD thin film resistor (0805) = ~2.4e-10 uV/V
The last one was read from a chart on the Susumu website and converted into common units, but I believe it is correct.
Jac
Hi Jac,
The pads for 5mm resistors can be used for 1206 smd as well
Hmmmn. Since the lead spacing for the naked Vishay is 3.8 mm, why not change the lead spacing for R10 to 3.8 mm. That would make the Caddock users bend their leads slightly, but it would also allow using 0805 SMD resistors. For those who want try it, 0805 resistors are much more available than 1206 and there are reasons to like Susumu over Vishay or Panasonic SMD resistors.
I know that current noise isn't the only spec to consider, nor is it always an indication of sound quality, but consider this;
Current Noise Constant (smaller is better)
Vishay TNP series SMD thin film resistor (0805 and 1206) = 4e-8 uV/V
Vishay VAR naked film resistor = 1e-8 uV/V
Susumu RG SMD thin film resistor (0805) = ~2.4e-10 uV/V
The last one was read from a chart on the Susumu website and converted into common units, but I believe it is correct.
Jac
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