Never
Especially not on this one Well I build a new shuntreg, with all fresh components and took out the lm317/337 psu and put in the shuntreg. The superb sound came back, and so did the buzz
I herewith declare: This linestage doesnt like to look at those zeners Objective will, because of that fact, be: Construct a lownoise shunt regulator. That ought to be an easy task The cards we have so far are, a CCS for the zenerstring or the TL431 voltage ref instead of the zeners! Thats pretty much summed up as I see it right now, agree? While the nice people at Onsemi agreed to send me some TL431's I think I will try the CCS first, while waiting The thing about this buzz is, that its always the same in both channels. With the old shuntreg and with the new one, its the same! Leads me to conclude that the shuntreg needs a major reconstruction. Not smaller tweaks here and there I sure would love to hear this baby sing with no buzzin' goin' on! What do you think?
Steen
steenoe said:
Well, then build the darn thing and hear for yourself
Steen
ok-just let me know (I'm lost through thread) which post is exact version you have,together with values
tomorrow I can't do nothing,on Sunday just mebbe,but on Monday fer sure
hehe-I even have one 431 somewhere ........
look at blury pic-my digi just shutted down in that moment because of died batteries
Attachments
Thats blurry allright
But, I am happy to see you are doing some work on this I really hope to find a solution for this psu! The sound of the NS10 is just great with the shunt reg! (Didnt I say that before?? ) The Buzz is a pain in the #ss, though..... I will try to get the Current sink?? right tomorrow!! Could you please post a schematic with both rails?? The last Shuntreg I made is this: 35V in 1000uF 100r 1000uF 100r, Zenerstring with 47r to ground, then BD! After the BD, 220uF good cap;-) I will, post a sch if needed But its almost your first psu proposal Steen
s*it!
I already tell ya that I'm bloody SS rookie ,when we talk of even simple constructions;
I know what I know when repairs and troubleshootin' is in case,but......
what I tried here (and also on my bench,lookin' at bloory pics ,hehe) is more than simple and elegant solution from http://sound.westhost.com/project37.htm
scroll down the page,and man nicely sez that shunt is in question;
I know what I'm doin' with tube stuff,where construction of one decent (passive even ) shunt reg with gas tube is major PITA comparing to few zenners and resistors and one transistor.....due to few lill' things-gas tube have usable range of current ,both well bordered on max and also on minimum available currents,and also have ignition voltage,something higher then working voltage etcetcetc.
but- CCS ?
no-it's not CCS ,at least not in usuall manner,just because I have rock stable VOLTAGE across load ,no matter what variations in input voltage or output load current I made (to be precise 25V7 with darlington,2x12V zenners and without series diode on output
shunt reg is nothing more than plain zenner shunt reg (series resistor and zenner to ground,along with some parallel capacitanc) ,but with some fancy schmutzieputzie instead of zenner;
I know that you can also make that with pnp in positive reg,but with zenners (voltage reference) from base to ground and resistor from base to Vcc. I can't see any difference,at least not some major difference between this two versions;
as you can see on Eliot's page ,and from litlle pic from TL431 datasheet ,some things are same
you have series resistor and voltage referenced (variable) current sink
I dunno-mebbe steen don't have enough capacitance on output (I certainly underestimated needed last capacitance in first version) or he have some other- ground related problem....
we will know more starting from MOnday (I must go tomorrow in some familly visits ,and Sunday is almost as every other day for me -one major Father day )
after all this funny posts in this entertaining thread,seems that I finnaly must do my homework
besides-nobody pulled my tongue ,when I asked Master for NS schematic
hehe-and my BOZ still waits
I have few nice wooden cases to choose
your Choky- Preamps Collector
I already tell ya that I'm bloody SS rookie ,when we talk of even simple constructions;
I know what I know when repairs and troubleshootin' is in case,but......
what I tried here (and also on my bench,lookin' at bloory pics ,hehe) is more than simple and elegant solution from http://sound.westhost.com/project37.htm
scroll down the page,and man nicely sez that shunt is in question;
I know what I'm doin' with tube stuff,where construction of one decent (passive even ) shunt reg with gas tube is major PITA comparing to few zenners and resistors and one transistor.....due to few lill' things-gas tube have usable range of current ,both well bordered on max and also on minimum available currents,and also have ignition voltage,something higher then working voltage etcetcetc.
but- CCS ?
no-it's not CCS ,at least not in usuall manner,just because I have rock stable VOLTAGE across load ,no matter what variations in input voltage or output load current I made (to be precise 25V7 with darlington,2x12V zenners and without series diode on output
shunt reg is nothing more than plain zenner shunt reg (series resistor and zenner to ground,along with some parallel capacitanc) ,but with some fancy schmutzieputzie instead of zenner;
I know that you can also make that with pnp in positive reg,but with zenners (voltage reference) from base to ground and resistor from base to Vcc. I can't see any difference,at least not some major difference between this two versions;
as you can see on Eliot's page ,and from litlle pic from TL431 datasheet ,some things are same
you have series resistor and voltage referenced (variable) current sink
I dunno-mebbe steen don't have enough capacitance on output (I certainly underestimated needed last capacitance in first version) or he have some other- ground related problem....
we will know more starting from MOnday (I must go tomorrow in some familly visits ,and Sunday is almost as every other day for me -one major Father day
)after all this funny posts in this entertaining thread,seems that I finnaly must do my homework
besides-nobody pulled my tongue ,when I asked Master for NS schematic
hehe-and my BOZ still waits
I have few nice wooden cases to choose
your Choky- Preamps Collector
Attachments
Choky,
Sorry for what I caused, I should have looked more closely, I trust Elliot also and your findings with the sample you have
I was looking to other schematics and thought wrongly about your setup.
I’ll will make a schematic with another iteration of the shunt reg and see if Steen is willing to try it since I don’t have much time available now. (I would prefer to test it myself before though and give proven values but…)
Sorry for what I caused, I should have looked more closely, I trust Elliot also and your findings with the sample you have
I was looking to other schematics and thought wrongly about your setup.I’ll will make a schematic with another iteration of the shunt reg and see if Steen is willing to try it since I don’t have much time available now. (I would prefer to test it myself before though and give proven values but…)
apassgear said:Choky,
Sorry for what I caused, I should have looked more closely, I trust Elliot also and your findings with the sample you have
I’ll will make a schematic with another iteration of the shunt reg and see if Steen is willing to try it since I don’t have much time available now. (I would prefer to test it myself before though and give proven values but…)
no offence,apass!
you just make me think for a moment,and all I wrote is just to refresh my memory and to collect some bits'n'pieces in one post;
tonight I'll look for steens last version and I'll try it on Monday
this lill' piece of preciouss s*it is nothing compared with one 2-way tube active x-over for KHorns,which I made several yrs ago....
I spent 6 days just to find why one channel have nasty buzz...
all was the same-even in physical layout ,for both channels;
aftr fourth dismantling of bloody EVERYTHING ,I found culprit- one elco,tnx to some even today unexplained reasons was responsible for some oscilations..........
this must be piece of cake,in this days and with my more and more white beard
add. Master's beard is certainly whiter than mine
Hi Choky, here is the schematic as built:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=772841#post772841
I will try and pop those 2200uF's in shortly I am not so good at designing as I am in constructing I was thinking, isnt there a way to make this shuntreg, so that the preamp isnt looking so directly at those Zeners?
Steen
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=772841#post772841
I will try and pop those 2200uF's in shortly
I am not so good at designing as I am in constructing I was thinking, isnt there a way to make this shuntreg, so that the preamp isnt looking so directly at those Zeners?Steen
I played some more with the little wonder this afternoon.
I popped in the 2200uF's, but that didn't help. I also tried to run both channels form one supply, thinking that maybe its in the dual mono setup's grounding. You know the LM317/337 supply being one supply for both channels. It wasn't, the same buzz was there. For the heck of it, I tried it with my "Workhorse-test-BosoZ" supply, which is not excactly a perfect build. I set it up with 3x9,1V zeners. The buzz was gone, and the preamp sounds pretty good Maybe a "mini"-Twisted BosoZ supply is the answer. A board could be made pretty small with 4pcs of 50V, 1000uF electro's
Steen
I popped in the 2200uF's, but that didn't help. I also tried to run both channels form one supply, thinking that maybe its in the dual mono setup's grounding. You know the LM317/337 supply being one supply for both channels. It wasn't, the same buzz was there. For the heck of it, I tried it with my "Workhorse-test-BosoZ" supply, which is not excactly a perfect build. I set it up with 3x9,1V zeners. The buzz was gone, and the preamp sounds pretty good
Maybe a "mini"-Twisted BosoZ supply is the answer. A board could be made pretty small with 4pcs of 50V, 1000uF electro's Steen
OK-now my s*ity CHokyNS10Clone in breadboard mono version sings Misery'n'Blues .........
yeah-SINGS!
without nasty buzz or anything
I have in start some bacground cookin' noise,but I found that old 250K trimmer is guilty-when I replaced trimer with resistor-everything is OK
setup is completelly on the bench-my Pioneer PD8500 feeding from hphns out (I have pot there) to pretty much 3D "air" version of 1ch NS10,which is supplied from 2x even more airy shunt regs and they are feeded from 300W toroidal ,and I get steady 35 (x2) Volts tnx to variac.graetz is some plastic B250C3300/5000 jobie
then I send all that NICE amplified signal in my ancient DIY MF A1 bastard,and spk is from some old tube radio-oval 5x7" with muuuucho sensitivity.
differences- or not:
toroid-graetz-2x470uF/100-2x100E-2x1000uF/100-2x100E ;
I use (2x)2x12V generic 1W3 zenners,100E is in bases of both darlingtons,darlingtons are bdx53C and 54C,and finnal caps are 2x2200uF/35V
NS10 is made with one BC560C and two BC413C,100K resistors are in fact two 47K in series,10K resistors are 10K54 ,input cap is wima 1uF,output cap is 10uF MKT no name,so you can see that I didn't tried much to make one hell of a prototype-I just grabbed first from drawer without looking hard.
tonight I will post some more blury pics
ONE IMPORTANT THING:
and I think that this is mebbe couse of all Steens troubles-
THIS PREAMP HAVE F*UCKIN' ENORMOUS SUSPECTABILITY FOR INPUT SIGNAL!
ok-now you'll say -we know that
BUT ALSO SAME IS CASE WITH ANY NOISE FROM SUPPLY OR MAINS!
you'll say the same
so-maybe best solution is to use AS MUST- GOOD RFI filter for mains
and plain EI xformer,just because toroid will put through any junk you have in mains
that's why 317/337 combo is without buzz
and that's why shunt may have some buzz,just because shunt don't have enormous feedback and 317's cappability for garbage smoothing.
but-main thing is that with shunt signal path is clearer and shorter,no matter what solution you use for shunt reg (discrete,hybrid or chip).
SO- use whatever you wannt for stab,or do not use any stab- it's free board
comments?
yeah-SINGS!
without nasty buzz or anything
I have in start some bacground cookin' noise,but I found that old 250K trimmer is guilty-when I replaced trimer with resistor-everything is OK
setup is completelly on the bench-my Pioneer PD8500 feeding from hphns out (I have pot there
) to pretty much 3D "air" version of 1ch NS10,which is supplied from 2x even more airy shunt regs and they are feeded from 300W toroidal ,and I get steady 35 (x2) Volts tnx to variac.graetz is some plastic B250C3300/5000 jobiethen I send all that NICE amplified signal in my ancient DIY MF A1 bastard,and spk is from some old tube radio-oval 5x7" with muuuucho sensitivity.
differences- or not:
toroid-graetz-2x470uF/100-2x100E-2x1000uF/100-2x100E ;
I use (2x)2x12V generic 1W3 zenners,100E is in bases of both darlingtons,darlingtons are bdx53C and 54C,and finnal caps are 2x2200uF/35V
NS10 is made with one BC560C and two BC413C,100K resistors are in fact two 47K in series,10K resistors are 10K54 ,input cap is wima 1uF,output cap is 10uF MKT no name,so you can see that I didn't tried much to make one hell of a prototype-I just grabbed first from drawer without looking hard.
tonight I will post some more blury pics
ONE IMPORTANT THING:
and I think that this is mebbe couse of all Steens troubles-
THIS PREAMP HAVE F*UCKIN' ENORMOUS SUSPECTABILITY FOR INPUT SIGNAL!
ok-now you'll say -we know that
BUT ALSO SAME IS CASE WITH ANY NOISE FROM SUPPLY OR MAINS!
you'll say the same
so-maybe best solution is to use AS MUST- GOOD RFI filter for mains
and plain EI xformer,just because toroid will put through any junk you have in mains
that's why 317/337 combo is without buzz
and that's why shunt may have some buzz,just because shunt don't have enormous feedback and 317's cappability for garbage smoothing.
but-main thing is that with shunt signal path is clearer and shorter,no matter what solution you use for shunt reg (discrete,hybrid or chip).
SO- use whatever you wannt for stab,or do not use any stab- it's free board
comments?
steenoe said:Yeah, way to go Choky
Good work
Man, that was great news
Steen
even better-put some surplus corcom (?) mains filter with integrated fuse
then make one decent dc blocker and gooooooood mains filter in one case for entire system
more blur
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