Anyone here had a chance to use or know enough to reliably tell me which projection lens is the best buy, the Pro lens from Lumen Labs or the long throw from DIYLabs
Here is the specs of each:
1014 Pro Zoom Projection Lens Triplet (not in stock, with no update as to when it will be. $199USD. Not looking good IMHO)
"The ultimate projection lens! Custom made to Lumenlab specs specifically for our projectors.
This lens is a massive 100mm (4") aperture with superior optical coatings for the fastest, brightest projection you'll get in the DIY community.
This lens is a varifocus lens with 450mm to 500mm of focal range which means it can zoom when mounted to a moving lens board. This lens gives us the long throw we have been waiting for and maintains the optimum projection to seating ratio of 1.6:1.
The casing is custom machined anodized aluminum and has been drilled and tapped in three locations to accept a 4mm machine screw. The field of view is large enough to accommodate 19" lcds which means we can build high definition projectors to rival units costing $40,000!
Please note that you must use the 1015 field fresnel lens with the 790mm FL and if you are building a projector based on a panel larger than 15" you will also need the 1016 condenser fresnel."
135mm Long-Throw Projection Lens Triplet
[triplet-135] $119.95
Click to enlarge
This new increadible lens triplet make a "huge" difference in how your image is projected! The new lens features a 380mm rear focal length, so it is compatible with your existing fresnel lenses, but it has a much longer (450mm) effective focal length so that you can push your projector much further from the wall and still get a manageable projection size!
Choosing a good projection lens makes all the difference in sharpness and focus. This lens has three glass elements that make for a much sharper image than any overhead projector doublet lens is capable of. The lens triplet is also made with special coatings and processes that eliminate ghosting, glare, or any other distortion of the projected image. You can expect that this lens will make your image 100% in focus from corner to corner!
Outer Diameter: ~135mm
Back Focal Length: 380mm
Effective Focal Length: 450mm
Largest Image Source: 15 inches diag. (still testing larger sizes)br> Barrel Length: 159mm
Material (optics): optical crown glass (coated)
Material (barrel): black anodized aluminum
Is the LL triplet worth the unknown wait and additional cost?
Thanks in advance,
Here is the specs of each:
1014 Pro Zoom Projection Lens Triplet (not in stock, with no update as to when it will be. $199USD. Not looking good IMHO)
"The ultimate projection lens! Custom made to Lumenlab specs specifically for our projectors.
This lens is a massive 100mm (4") aperture with superior optical coatings for the fastest, brightest projection you'll get in the DIY community.
This lens is a varifocus lens with 450mm to 500mm of focal range which means it can zoom when mounted to a moving lens board. This lens gives us the long throw we have been waiting for and maintains the optimum projection to seating ratio of 1.6:1.
The casing is custom machined anodized aluminum and has been drilled and tapped in three locations to accept a 4mm machine screw. The field of view is large enough to accommodate 19" lcds which means we can build high definition projectors to rival units costing $40,000!
Please note that you must use the 1015 field fresnel lens with the 790mm FL and if you are building a projector based on a panel larger than 15" you will also need the 1016 condenser fresnel."
135mm Long-Throw Projection Lens Triplet
[triplet-135] $119.95
Click to enlarge
This new increadible lens triplet make a "huge" difference in how your image is projected! The new lens features a 380mm rear focal length, so it is compatible with your existing fresnel lenses, but it has a much longer (450mm) effective focal length so that you can push your projector much further from the wall and still get a manageable projection size!
Choosing a good projection lens makes all the difference in sharpness and focus. This lens has three glass elements that make for a much sharper image than any overhead projector doublet lens is capable of. The lens triplet is also made with special coatings and processes that eliminate ghosting, glare, or any other distortion of the projected image. You can expect that this lens will make your image 100% in focus from corner to corner!
Outer Diameter: ~135mm
Back Focal Length: 380mm
Effective Focal Length: 450mm
Largest Image Source: 15 inches diag. (still testing larger sizes)br> Barrel Length: 159mm
Material (optics): optical crown glass (coated)
Material (barrel): black anodized aluminum
Is the LL triplet worth the unknown wait and additional cost?
Thanks in advance,
slightly inaccurate lens info
I think the DIYBuildergroup online store info is a bit dated. Their lens has been used with LCDs larger than 15". JCB has not been real good about updating the web store info. (That may change soon since he is going to full-time website management.)
The lumenlab triplet is not a zoom lens, it IS a varifocal. With a zoom lens, you can focus it and then zoom in and out to adjust the image size without refocussing. A varifocal is a much simpler lens that lets you adjust the focal length, but then you still have to refocus it. No big deal, except varifocal lens design is a compromise to get good performance at both ends of the adjustment range rather than optimal performance at a fixed focal length.
Both of these lenses are much better than you need for projecting large-granularity images from LCDs. (Even HD-quality LCDs.) At this level of optical quality, the only differences will be how sharp the screendoor pattern edges will be when you look at the screen from two feet away. (I get pretty sharp screendoor across the screen with a 526 mm fl duplet I made for $18!)
Maybe the focal length range should determine your choice: If you need 500 mm fl to fit your screen with your throw distance, then try the LL triplet. Otherwise, you could save some money and get a brighter image even with sloppy condensor system tuning by using the DIYbuilderGroup triplet. Either one will work very well for your projector.
I think the DIYBuildergroup online store info is a bit dated. Their lens has been used with LCDs larger than 15". JCB has not been real good about updating the web store info. (That may change soon since he is going to full-time website management.)
The lumenlab triplet is not a zoom lens, it IS a varifocal. With a zoom lens, you can focus it and then zoom in and out to adjust the image size without refocussing. A varifocal is a much simpler lens that lets you adjust the focal length, but then you still have to refocus it. No big deal, except varifocal lens design is a compromise to get good performance at both ends of the adjustment range rather than optimal performance at a fixed focal length.
Both of these lenses are much better than you need for projecting large-granularity images from LCDs. (Even HD-quality LCDs.) At this level of optical quality, the only differences will be how sharp the screendoor pattern edges will be when you look at the screen from two feet away. (I get pretty sharp screendoor across the screen with a 526 mm fl duplet I made for $18!)
Maybe the focal length range should determine your choice: If you need 500 mm fl to fit your screen with your throw distance, then try the LL triplet. Otherwise, you could save some money and get a brighter image even with sloppy condensor system tuning by using the DIYbuilderGroup triplet. Either one will work very well for your projector.
Sorry I was referring to DIYProjectorCompany's triplet but it looks to be the exact same lens as DIYBuilderGroup, at the same price. Are these guys in cahoots? (sp?)
This will be the lens I buy and I'm thinking of getting it from DIYPC simply because their forums are open to the public. I would have got it today, but no one has replyed to my emails as of yet.
I did round up alot of supplies today. Basicly all I need now is my optics, light and ballast and I can start experimenting and building
This will be the lens I buy and I'm thinking of getting it from DIYPC simply because their forums are open to the public. I would have got it today, but no one has replyed to my emails as of yet.
I did round up alot of supplies today. Basicly all I need now is my optics, light and ballast and I can start experimenting and building
I'm intending to use this same panel, and facing this same dilemma. Actually, I'm considering the LumenLab basic projection triplet too, using it along with the DIYPC 330 mm fresnel.
One thing worth noting is that the LL Pro lens is massive, and has a very large field of view. It will definitely give a nice bright image with a 15.4" WS projector. The LL standard lens and the DIYPC lenses are OK with 15" panels, but I haven't heard anything definitive anywhere about how they work with 15.4" setups.
Watching intently,
Phil.
One thing worth noting is that the LL Pro lens is massive, and has a very large field of view. It will definitely give a nice bright image with a 15.4" WS projector. The LL standard lens and the DIYPC lenses are OK with 15" panels, but I haven't heard anything definitive anywhere about how they work with 15.4" setups.
Watching intently,
Phil.
im still trying to figure out what parts to buy for this.
if you use the that lcd, did you manage to find any lens that match its size without cutting?
im building a long 2 foot type like most of the http://www.lumenlab.com/ ones, do you think heat resistence is still a mandatory factor?
Does anyone have links to help a newbie learn how to calculate focal length and how to predict approximate screen size based on the dimensions and specs of the pj itself?
if you use the that lcd, did you manage to find any lens that match its size without cutting?
im building a long 2 foot type like most of the http://www.lumenlab.com/ ones, do you think heat resistence is still a mandatory factor?
Does anyone have links to help a newbie learn how to calculate focal length and how to predict approximate screen size based on the dimensions and specs of the pj itself?
"For this LCD, the only fresnels I've found (at least currently available) are the 15.5x15.5" from DIYprojectorCompany. I plan to cut my down to fit this LCD. Even if the 16:9 fresnels they have would match the size of this LCD, it is not 16:9."
i thought 1280x800 is close enough for the 16:9 lenses to work?
according to Ben_Tech the screen is
13 1/4" x 8 3/8", approximately.
so thats 336.55mm X 212.725mm
the reason im so concerned is the nicer the edges have less chance of fouling up the final image. im still trying to learn more about this, so i can get it right the first time, you know?
i thought 1280x800 is close enough for the 16:9 lenses to work?
according to Ben_Tech the screen is
13 1/4" x 8 3/8", approximately.
so thats 336.55mm X 212.725mm
the reason im so concerned is the nicer the edges have less chance of fouling up the final image. im still trying to learn more about this, so i can get it right the first time, you know?
What about the lenses from:
http://diybuildergroup.com/store/optics/ ???
The price is right.
They, like some other forums, charge for access to their forums, so I'm tempted to stay away just for that reason... but if the product is good...
http://diybuildergroup.com/store/optics/ ???
The price is right.
They, like some other forums, charge for access to their forums, so I'm tempted to stay away just for that reason... but if the product is good...
doublethink said:
Ideally you want the fresnels to be a little bigger than your LCD, definatly not a little smaller. I plan on cutting down the 15.5"ers about 20mm larger than my LCD, as this should provide ample light to the entire LCD, and prevent any small chips or defects on the cut edges from affecting my image.
cutting the fresnels
Instead of cutting the fresnels just a bit bigger than the LCD, you might want to cut them as large as possible to still fit in your box. Then you will have the option of increasing the space between the fresnels and the LCD. This can help you tune your condensor system, especially if you use one of lumenlab's long focal length field fresnels. If you cut them just a bit larger than the LCD, then you will be forced to keep them within a centimeter or two from the LCD. Why limit your options?
Or at least try some experimental "fittings" with different spacing, etc. to find a good combination before you cut them.
Instead of cutting the fresnels just a bit bigger than the LCD, you might want to cut them as large as possible to still fit in your box. Then you will have the option of increasing the space between the fresnels and the LCD. This can help you tune your condensor system, especially if you use one of lumenlab's long focal length field fresnels. If you cut them just a bit larger than the LCD, then you will be forced to keep them within a centimeter or two from the LCD. Why limit your options?
Or at least try some experimental "fittings" with different spacing, etc. to find a good combination before you cut them.
Wouldn't it be better (and easier) to keep them the same size and mask the areas that won't need light? Obviously this will have some effect on the size of the box, but...
Re: cutting the fresnels
I agree totally. I'm not cutting anything until I get all my distances tuned perfectly. I actually plan on building a test box out of scrap plywood to house the full size fresnels for this purpose. Once I'm done experimenting with my light engine, tuning distances, and getting temperatures, I will make the smallest box possible and then cut down my fresnels accordingly.
I plan on taking my time and getting it right the first time 😉 That’s why I keep prodding you all for answers to my questions 😀
Guy Grotke said:
I agree totally. I'm not cutting anything until I get all my distances tuned perfectly. I actually plan on building a test box out of scrap plywood to house the full size fresnels for this purpose. Once I'm done experimenting with my light engine, tuning distances, and getting temperatures, I will make the smallest box possible and then cut down my fresnels accordingly.
I plan on taking my time and getting it right the first time 😉 That’s why I keep prodding you all for answers to my questions 😀
Syscrush & Guys,
I have the DIYprojector company 135mm x 450 mm air spaced triplet. I'm quite sure that it is the same lens offered by DIYbuilder group. I have tested the lens and it will easily work with a 17 inch LCD so a 15.4 will be no problem. While I didn't test the lens with a 19 inch LCD it seemed to have adequate coverage to accomodate that size LCD as well.
I can not speak for the LL pro lens but it should work with up to 17 inch and maybe 19 inch LCD as well. Smaller will only work even better as less field of view is being used. As far as quality differences both lenses are likely to be made to about the same standards but the larger air spaced DIYPC triplet should have slightly higher resolution but in our application it may not be a perceivable difference.
Inkog,
Speaking of taking a long time on this projector project you should see the monstrosity that I am building. I just finished putting together a HTPC and now I need a new AV receiver. The quest goes on.
Here's my thread on my projector. I'm hoping to get the proview LCD next week if my budget allows.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46807&highlight=
Hezz
I have the DIYprojector company 135mm x 450 mm air spaced triplet. I'm quite sure that it is the same lens offered by DIYbuilder group. I have tested the lens and it will easily work with a 17 inch LCD so a 15.4 will be no problem. While I didn't test the lens with a 19 inch LCD it seemed to have adequate coverage to accomodate that size LCD as well.
I can not speak for the LL pro lens but it should work with up to 17 inch and maybe 19 inch LCD as well. Smaller will only work even better as less field of view is being used. As far as quality differences both lenses are likely to be made to about the same standards but the larger air spaced DIYPC triplet should have slightly higher resolution but in our application it may not be a perceivable difference.
Inkog,
Speaking of taking a long time on this projector project you should see the monstrosity that I am building. I just finished putting together a HTPC and now I need a new AV receiver. The quest goes on.
Here's my thread on my projector. I'm hoping to get the proview LCD next week if my budget allows.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46807&highlight=
Hezz
Re: cutting the fresnels
i see, but wouldnt an oversized lens make the box bigger then needbe, thereby increasing the border of wood/mdf around the lcd, and lead to more wasted light?
i guess just to play it safe it would be better not to get so picky then. i get what your saying.
And I could make the front 1/2 of the box smaller then to allow the rear lens some movement to adjust, since a lot of the posts i saw of finished projectors mentioned making some fine tuning adjustments.
Guy Grotke said:
i see, but wouldnt an oversized lens make the box bigger then needbe, thereby increasing the border of wood/mdf around the lcd, and lead to more wasted light?
i guess just to play it safe it would be better not to get so picky then. i get what your saying.
And I could make the front 1/2 of the box smaller then to allow the rear lens some movement to adjust, since a lot of the posts i saw of finished projectors mentioned making some fine tuning adjustments.
Well I have been looking for a good digital thermometer for a while now with no avail until now...
Check this out http://store.yahoo.com/svcompucycle/sst-fp52-b-41.html
A little pricey but worth it IMHO, as the only digital thermometer with 2 probes I could find was ~40$USD. This has 4 temp probes, 4 fan controllers, a blue digital LCD display, and controls the fans automatically for the least noise possible!
Damn good stuff and will easily integrate with the PC power supply I intended to use to power the LCD and fans. Who doesn't like bells and whistles? 😉
No if I can just find the right fresnels for this projection lens…
Check this out http://store.yahoo.com/svcompucycle/sst-fp52-b-41.html
A little pricey but worth it IMHO, as the only digital thermometer with 2 probes I could find was ~40$USD. This has 4 temp probes, 4 fan controllers, a blue digital LCD display, and controls the fans automatically for the least noise possible!
Damn good stuff and will easily integrate with the PC power supply I intended to use to power the LCD and fans. Who doesn't like bells and whistles? 😉
No if I can just find the right fresnels for this projection lens…
Well I just ordered the long throw lens, ir glass and 330mm fresnel set from DIYPC. I went ahead a got the 330's to play around with, but will eventually go with 220mm and ~5?0mm if I can ever find one
I should have the lenses by next weekend and should have some expermental images to show off shortly thereafter.
Stay tunned...
I should have the lenses by next weekend and should have some expermental images to show off shortly thereafter.
Stay tunned...
just saw one like this is on clearance at $14.94 at our local compusa store. don't know if it is nation wide.
Inkog said:Well I have been looking for a good digital thermometer for a while now with no avail until now...
I have this dual-probe thermometer w/temperature alarm and it works brilliantly: http://www.bestbyteinc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SEN-CNU-00&variation=&aitem=6&mitem=8
Only $11.99 + i think $2 shipping via US postal service.
Only $11.99 + i think $2 shipping via US postal service.
Well my fresnels are backordered until 3/8/05 so it will probably be 2 weeks before I get any of my optics 
I wasn't going to be able to afford my 400w MH bulb and ballast until next weekend anyway, so I guess it’s not the end of the world 😉
I ordered a AeroGate2 4 channel fan controller and temp monitor. Unnecessary, but cool as hell
It has a built in 50mm fan that I'll use to vent the electronics area of the PJ and cool my modified PC power supply. The built-in alarm sounds if any of the fans fail or the temps reach a certain limit.
My grandfather was a electronics engineer in his day and has a basement full of electronics parts. I'm going there tomorrow to see what I can score. I'm certain I'll be able to find all the wire, switches, and the like that I'll need
I wasn't going to be able to afford my 400w MH bulb and ballast until next weekend anyway, so I guess it’s not the end of the world 😉
I ordered a AeroGate2 4 channel fan controller and temp monitor. Unnecessary, but cool as hell
It has a built in 50mm fan that I'll use to vent the electronics area of the PJ and cool my modified PC power supply. The built-in alarm sounds if any of the fans fail or the temps reach a certain limit.
My grandfather was a electronics engineer in his day and has a basement full of electronics parts. I'm going there tomorrow to see what I can score. I'm certain I'll be able to find all the wire, switches, and the like that I'll need
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