Ahh, fullrange! Fullrange don't make bass...everybody knows that!
And paper...that ol' material for making speakers. Times has changed.
WHen sometimes I switch to CD source ( no computers around) I fell the urge to use my 6.5" woofers ( and SS 10 F for mid) for the super-duper bass that the (often electronic) music offers, but the speakers are too big...I mean, I have 8 pairs of speakers packed and I use none because the room does not allow it.
Floorstanders, towers...I've never managed to build one 'cos I don't like the form. You put speakers on baffle et enclosure and put it on the floor?
And paper...that ol' material for making speakers. Times has changed.
WHen sometimes I switch to CD source ( no computers around) I fell the urge to use my 6.5" woofers ( and SS 10 F for mid) for the super-duper bass that the (often electronic) music offers, but the speakers are too big...I mean, I have 8 pairs of speakers packed and I use none because the room does not allow it.
Floorstanders, towers...I've never managed to build one 'cos I don't like the form. You put speakers on baffle et enclosure and put it on the floor?
FR or woofers at 4" do not output meaningful bass. Satisfying in certain setups, sure, but surely not house rattling levels.
Physics has not changed.
If you are happy with your super-duper bass from your 6.5" driver, glad for you.
Since you haven't tried anything bigger, it's reasonable to see that you have enough.
Others have listened to bigger setup, and different designs.
Others might need more than you you think is enough.
That's ok.
Just be happy and enjoy your music.
Physics has not changed.
If you are happy with your super-duper bass from your 6.5" driver, glad for you.
Since you haven't tried anything bigger, it's reasonable to see that you have enough.
Others have listened to bigger setup, and different designs.
Others might need more than you you think is enough.
That's ok.
Just be happy and enjoy your music.
originally my intention behind choosing this configuration was to have a small speaker but still capable of making big sound. LAs can do that. so 8 of them also can achieve that. maybe the driver I selected is not capable. I am open to changing to different driver provided it meets cost. means, I am ok to look for 5" drivers in place of 3 or 4" drivers but going beyond beats the purpose.
See, if you want bass from your construction, the single speaker used in multiples has to produce a little bit of the low frequency you desire. Then you may be able to equalize it enough to give, at limited level, the bass you hope for.
So in practice the chassis has to have a response that falls softly at the low end. A vented cabinet may help with this, but only if the drivers parameter allow for reflex.
If you use a speaker that has a straight drop under the resonace frequency, there will be nothing to equalize, even if you use 100 chassis per side.
The problem is that some people do not respect and understand physics.
You may have a cone area 25 times as large as a single driver, but the resonance frequency does not drop a single Hz.
With your chassis you can reproduce the same, bass free response of a singel driver, simply louder. Loud does not mean bass. Maybe you don't get this.
So in practice the chassis has to have a response that falls softly at the low end. A vented cabinet may help with this, but only if the drivers parameter allow for reflex.
If you use a speaker that has a straight drop under the resonace frequency, there will be nothing to equalize, even if you use 100 chassis per side.
The problem is that some people do not respect and understand physics.
You may have a cone area 25 times as large as a single driver, but the resonance frequency does not drop a single Hz.
With your chassis you can reproduce the same, bass free response of a singel driver, simply louder. Loud does not mean bass. Maybe you don't get this.
A line arrary should be floor to ceiling (or close), otherwise it is not really a line array. 4 or 8 drivers usually will not do that.
We are running in circle trying to prove a point, but it seems lost in translation.
So, sound novice, I think it's time to do it hands on. Get first hands knowledge. How about you buy 4 drivers and try to push them down to how low you want them to go. Hear the distortion rise as you add EQ. Then, you'll get a grasp of the physics we are trying to point out here.
If it's good enough for you, then go ahead and buy the rest.
If it's not, you can make 2 pairs of cute little bookshelf to give as gifts.
Then, we'll talk about alternatives.
PS. Another nice little driver from a reputable company is the SBA SB10PGC21-4. It's a very capable driver, at a very reasonable price. It has a slight distortion rise at 4kHz (at least my own drivers have) but nobody that bought it seem to be bothered by it. They all like it. It has a very good and well balanced sound.
So, sound novice, I think it's time to do it hands on. Get first hands knowledge. How about you buy 4 drivers and try to push them down to how low you want them to go. Hear the distortion rise as you add EQ. Then, you'll get a grasp of the physics we are trying to point out here.
If it's good enough for you, then go ahead and buy the rest.
If it's not, you can make 2 pairs of cute little bookshelf to give as gifts.
Then, we'll talk about alternatives.
PS. Another nice little driver from a reputable company is the SBA SB10PGC21-4. It's a very capable driver, at a very reasonable price. It has a slight distortion rise at 4kHz (at least my own drivers have) but nobody that bought it seem to be bothered by it. They all like it. It has a very good and well balanced sound.
Your original plan in post #1 is 8 drivers for bass, 2 drivers for mids and 2 drivers for highs, with one of the last two placed at top for ambience. So 12 in total.
But I see you are also talking about 8 drivers per side. Can you please clarify how much drivers will be per speaker, 8 or 12.
One of the cabinets recommended by manufacturer is 3-4,5 Liter vented, tuned to 50-60Hz. So, 50-60Hz low extension should be possible. How loud, it depends on number of drivers doing bass.
Have you tried to simulate the response in some of the free programs available?
But I see you are also talking about 8 drivers per side. Can you please clarify how much drivers will be per speaker, 8 or 12.
One of the cabinets recommended by manufacturer is 3-4,5 Liter vented, tuned to 50-60Hz. So, 50-60Hz low extension should be possible. How loud, it depends on number of drivers doing bass.
Have you tried to simulate the response in some of the free programs available?
yea.....
I don't mind mini-arrays, I like my 4 x 3.5" mini array, for what it did well............
As I liked my focused 9 x 4" array, for what it did well.
I would remake that one, but not squares mini enclosures behind the drivers (nasty 1khz resonance), fix baffle step, and forget trying to make any bass under 150hz !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even a 12" full range on the floor when eq'd, run wide open, I hear too much voice modulation (garble) for my liking.
I don't mind mini-arrays, I like my 4 x 3.5" mini array, for what it did well............
As I liked my focused 9 x 4" array, for what it did well.
I would remake that one, but not squares mini enclosures behind the drivers (nasty 1khz resonance), fix baffle step, and forget trying to make any bass under 150hz !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even a 12" full range on the floor when eq'd, run wide open, I hear too much voice modulation (garble) for my liking.
we are focusing on low bass region in these discussions. mids and top are easily achievable with two mids and one tweeter. so for bass region, 8 drivers per side.
my understanding is that, either cone needs to be bigger to achieve better lows or it should have high xmax and power handling capabilities. in both cases its capable of pushing more air required for producing bass.
This is quick Boxsim simulation for single driver in 3,6 Liter vented box tuned to 53Hz. Half space. Response is calculated from TS specs.
It seems like, with 4,5mm Xmax, this driver is capable bass performer. Max SPL at 50-60Hz is around 91dB. Eight drivers will give 18dB more, around 109dB. More than enough for average listening rooms.
15W power handling is maintained all the way to tuning frequency.
Response will need a little boost from 50-100Hz, but good bass to 50Hz is no problem.
It seems like, with 4,5mm Xmax, this driver is capable bass performer. Max SPL at 50-60Hz is around 91dB. Eight drivers will give 18dB more, around 109dB. More than enough for average listening rooms.
15W power handling is maintained all the way to tuning frequency.
Response will need a little boost from 50-100Hz, but good bass to 50Hz is no problem.
I find it interesting working out floor bounce, where a woofer begins getting close to the floor without being too close.
Looks a bit like the Dayton PS95, except for the Dayton's flatter impedance. And I'm not sure if the phase plug design is air-tight and designed for bass. The air gap next to the VC former is visible on the PS95 so the spider would have to be air-tight to seal the pressure.
in winisd simulations, max xmax is showing at 2.5mm. I understand that simulations are only one side of the story and may not hold good in practice. but i guess having 4.5mm xmax provides some amount of useful headroom.
I disagree. It gives extended bass shelf (EBS) response (or alignment). And its within manufacturer recommendation.
Check the last graph more closely. Full power rating (15W) is available in whole working range, meaning Xmax wont be excedeed at tuning frequency and above.
Below tuning frequency of vented systems, cone excursion rises very fast. Thats where you have to be careful with power, as shown by graph as well.
But that will be the case with every driver in a vented box.